Property reports on Zoopla which cost £9.99 have been pulled from the site in what turns out to have been a “short trial”.
EYE drew attention to the reports in a story last week, where an agent expressed serious doubts as to its figures on one of the reports.
Our readers voiced general concerns over the value of a “survey” where there had been no visit to the property.
Within hours of our story here action appeared to have been taken to remove the reports from Zoopla, although they could still be found online.
The reports, by RICS member firm Vectis, have now drawn this response from the RICS, which told EYE: “Underpinning our Royal Charter remit is the mandate to act in the interests of consumers and the RICS applauds innovative thinking and welcomes new products and services that can enhance the professionalism of the sector and add value for the consumer.
“Vectis Chartered Surveyors ran a short trial of a Buyer Report with Zoopla.
“Following that trial RICS identified elements of the report, which is not an RICS product and does not include a physical inspection of the property, that could be improved to better meet customer need.
“Vectis and Zoopla share RICS concerns that too many buyers fail to appreciate that a mortgage valuation is not a survey.
“Better informed buyers are more likely to have a survey done to learn more about the home they are buying.
“A tool that helps buyers clearly understand their options could prove useful in an era when some mortgage valuations are being provided from the desktop, without any inspection of the property at all.
“Following the trial period, RICS will liaise with Vectis as it improves the report, to deliver useful information to the consumer and improve understanding in the sector.
“The report is not a survey and is not intended to replace a survey, whereas the RICS Home Survey Suite of Condition Report, Homebuyer Report and Building Survey provide buyers with accurate and informed advice following a physical inspection of the property.
“Property professionals can easily guide buyers on the difference between a mortgage valuation and a survey with the RICS ‘a valuation is not a survey’ short video.”
A spokesperson for Zoopla said: “It was always a short-term limited trial which has now ended.”
The RICS video is here
Comments (31)
Without a doubt this will re-appear to further undermine general practice surveyors. There will be an unforeseen problem there will be an expensive court case, lot’s of hand wringing and buck passing etc and there will be calls for more general practice surveyors and Valuers on the ground.
In the same way I could not or would not advise anyone to train as a teacher, if anyone told me they were training as a surveyor I really would question their naivety.
Being mindful of a few years experience of how things work in this industry I can’t help but be a little perplexed at how this has been handled. and the various bits of communication surrounding it. I am wondering just how much prior knowledge of the trial RICS had and whether it is an indication of a commercial arrangement between RICS and Zoopla.
Since their introduction I have puzzled at why RICS have remained quiet about the obvious flaws of online valuation systems. I can fully understand systems providing a retrospective comparables cross check of agreed sales but allowing comparables to drive pre sale valuations is back to front, wrong and out of keeping with professional valuation methodology.
Quietly re-reading this story last night it is possible to see that all 3 parties involved in this are a bit miffed at the reaction to the trial. I can’t for the life of me think this was intended to be blurted out on a Saturday at the tail end of a thread on Eye and to all be done and dusted within a week. All very odd!
I would not be surprised if we see a modified version launched at some point Robert. Possibly one that includes a site visit and at a higher price. I think this is more a test the water exercise before an amended product is launched.
Of course only a guess but I can’t believe that Zoopla would put all this effort into a product that they must have known would have gone down like a lead balloon.
What I also found surprising was that the report contained the photos, property description and logo of the said agent. In fact it was as though it was compiled by both, Zoopla, RICS, Vectis and the agent, when in fact the agent probably knew nothing about it.
And as some have already said It was indeed quite short term, as I don’t believe that Zoopla could have believed that the industry would have tolerated it, in fact, I can’t see how any RICS agent who advertised on Zoopla would have continued to do so in the knowledge that there name was being put to such a report.
Drama Queen? no! concerned for his industry Yes.! Well done Mr House! Well done Ros and Eye for covering the story. Thank you both!
Thanks Robert. I think on this issue it was a fair concern and judging by Zooplas very quick a response as well as the response of pretty much the whole industry, it was a justified concern.
1st Time buyer has a posting record that almost certainly points to him working for Zoopla so naturally he will be disappointed at his gobby mate. Hopefully RICS will be heartened that the mis-use of their logo was the fuel of this story and that the industry is easily mobilised against things are so obviously not in the industry’s interest.
The only support for the scheme came from people who didn’t understand it’s impact!
And don’t forget to thank ‘Andy10000’ (who along with ‘FirstTimeBuyer’ and others seem to be Zoopla’s happy band of Marketing Minions), who first flagged up the ‘feature’ in a blatant plug.
SO kind of them. Unfortunately for them, it meant they had to bring their “short-term limited trial” to an abrupt and no doubt unprofitable end – which was, in my opinion, far from the plan…
A spokesperson for Zoopla said: “It was always a short-term limited trial which has now ended.”
Once more Zoopla messing with the heads of the public in a bid to make money and in the process making life harder for their estate agents who pay a fortune to be on their portal. When will the industry take a stand against Zoopla’s anti -industry activities I wonder. Such a facility was NEVER going to be helpful or useful to the public and NEVER in the interest of the industry.
Short-term? limited?….
…that’ll apply to the thought put into it.
It’s really Homer Zoopla and RICS Griffin getting together… Doh!
With respect RICS have allowed a problem to manifest itself and are now scrabbling about for a solution.
The old joke about a survey was when the surveyor got out of the car, a homebuyers report was done by stopping the car and a mortgage valuation was a drive by to make sure the place was there no sees lunacy replacing ridicule.
Back in 2012 when it became obvious that desktop mortgage valuation were replacing physical inspection I cited examples where according to the internet it would be possible to raise no questions asked mortgage handouts of £300,000 on a bit of tarmac or £132,000 on a pile of mud and horse hair.
There is a massive contradiction here, remove the bread and butter, easy, high margin, low risk work from surveyors and leave them picking up the detailed, in depth, time consuming high risk/ responsibility work that by comparison is commercially unviable.
Apologies for being outspoken but if RICS want to encourage a system where surveys are possible it has to devise and support a system where surveyors exist and can run a viable business doing so.
In 2012 on EAT I highlighted the issues of a self confirming system of market appraisals and desktop mortgage approvals. 3 years on the effects predicted are evident. By saying nothing to support general practice surveyors and effectively condoning flawed algorithm valuations RICS is helping to create a scenario where it will cease to exist as an institute for actual surveyors.
““Following that trial RICS identified elements of the report, which is not an RICS product…”
Sorry, RICS – but YES IT IS.
* It carries the RICS logo.
* It mimics the ‘traffic light’ type reporting system you introduced to the RICS HomeBuyer Report.
It is called a “Buyer Report”.
Zoopla’s advert for it stated ” “Get an instant online report for this property from RICS surveyors”
You see, RICS, when the public see your logo – they do not know any more.
They should not need to know anything more.
This reminds me of how the firm I work for is both a firm of Chartered Surveyors as well as Estate Agency, in a small provincial city. We constantly get surveyors from large, not local firms call us for our local comparable evidence. They have undertaken professional work in our area which they cannot do properly because they do not know the local values.
And the time a not-local surveyor did a survey on a sea front hotel and put on his report that there were no sea defences. Despite that fact that there are millions of pounds worth of sea defence, a fact easily attainable with, you know, eyes. But he had used an Environment Agency map that had not been updated…
We do not have a surveying side to our business but a forever contacted by the surveyors looking for comparables or if something is under offer what price we achieved.
I have asked the staff not to disclose the information and the response you get from the surveyors is almost on bullying. They do not except no for an answer. Always calling back or trying to get the staff to change their minds.
Its my data and i have had to earn it. Why should i give it away for free? Its like asking a surveyor to do a homebuyers for free. Too many agents are happy to give away their data.
I applaud you Smile Please
All – every – each agent I look at using my system is showing up Agent’s data in all manner of places. Places it should not be, data created and shared with all and sundry irrespective of who it belongs to for free.
One of the benefits of On the market’s one other portal rule has been that I can now prove data scraping and data phishing.
The extent of data distribution is simply staggering and although I am fairly well up to speed on all 90+ property portals I keep findng new sites that are affiliated to existing sites in some way or aresimply nicking agent’s data for their own ends.
What i would like to say to these surveyors is “Pay me £70 per month and you can have all the info you want” unfortuantley because they are precious little things that might hurt the next survey they do for us!
I think many agents do not realise the value of their data. Why do they think the internet only companies are racking in millions in crowd funding. Zoopla with the many third party advertisers.
I remember years ago i work for a large corporate and you had do ask them if they smoked and what their date of birth was! obviously this date was being sold on!
Our whole Industry is based on Comparisons as long as they are not “stealing” your business what is the problem. We share knowledge with all our competitors…does this not happen elsewhere in the UK?
Why should i share it? its mine!
I have to pay RM plus Z £X per month to get access to that data why do i then give it away for free.
In fact a number of the portals could not operate without the info you and i give them, and they then charge use through the nose to use it!
Why should surveyors get it free? considering many from the larger surveying firms (connells, esurv, countrywide) will not even speak to you if they down value a property?
As an industry we have fallen into bad habits giving away our data and now seen as the norm.
When fees are being driven down on a yearly basis, we need to do everything we can to keep hold of the control of data and maintain our fees.
Where do you think the likes of the Z index and Purplebricks and other onliners get their valuations from?
SP – Id agree with you to a certain degree but we are talking a few harmless comps to a surveyor here.
Surveyors can make our lives a misery at the best of times, I wouldn’t go out of my way to fall out with them. (however, if you feel they are bullying your staff, different ball game )
I use to feel like that, what harm are a few comps,
But i found caught a couple of agents pretending to be surveyors asking for prices. The more i thought about it i realised that i am giving away data i have had paid for, why should i put my business at risk for agents that don’t know the market and why should i help surveyors for free? they seldom help us.
I must admit i did worry about the backlash but touch wood, other than a poor attitude from them over the phone it has not been any worse and this has been going on for a couple of years now.
I think sometimes as agents we try and keep everybody happy, Solicitors, Mortgage advisers, surveyors, buyers and sellers. We do a lot for free and this has now been expected from us.
Yes we need to give a good level of service to buyers and sellers, and i would not go out of my way to upset other service providers but do solicitors, surveyors and mortgage advisers really treat us with respect? how often to they “Go the extra mile for us”
I am not telling everybody to do the same, but do look at the services you provide for free and the resources you allocate ….. Does any other profession do this on a no sale no fee basis?
We have previously discussed this very thing! There’s an outfit rings every few weeks claiming to be a firm of surveyors (but don’t show up on any searches…) saying that their ‘surveyor’ has seen a property/properties we are marketing and wants details for comparison. They never know the house number (first sign of cracks n the story); never know what the property that they want the comp for is (cracks widening…) and won’t tell YOU what THEY want to know ie address of the property THEY are allegedly ‘valuing’ – so they get nowt from us!
From what I remember was said previously – they then try to sell the listing info to other Agents.
And of course there’s always someone who will pay…
“There’s an outfit rings every few weeks claiming to be a firm of surveyors (but don’t show up on any searches…) saying that their ‘surveyor’ has seen a property/properties we are marketing and wants details for comparison.!”
Same here. We’ve now changed company policy and ask that all requests for comparables from surveyors be received on email.
It’s the easiest way to confirm that they are who they say they are.
I think we need to differentiate between the surveyors you are on first name terms with and have dealt with for donkeys, and the obscure company you have never heard of.
One I would give the comps, the other I wouldn’t.
Fair point but think you are selling yourself and your importance short.
But they are stealing the data, allowing it to be scraped and are putting copyright data in the public domain for the purposes of the SEO which keeps individual agents off the top spots of natural search results.
By free for all to see sharing data you are enabling people without a clue to establish businesses and artificially create competition that otherwise would not exist. that is the engine of fee erosion
A spokesperson for Zoopla said: “It was always a short–term limited trial which has now ended.”
I can still get on Z, how odd, they mustn’t of turned it off near me LOL.
Trails happen everywhere everyday, not sure what the fuss is about. Its all in the wording. Excuse for some to be drama Queens I suppose.
Awwww, 1TB – are we fweatening your wuvvly ickle Zoppy-woopy, den?
Picking on dem and making dem cwy and cwy?
Diddums.
If and when you have outgrown the pram you’ve just chucked your dummy out of, and think you’re ready to play the same games as the big boys and girls play in the rough and tumble of their playground, ask your fwend if its okay to come out to play again.
In the meantime, you’re far safer in your pram.
It is more that his mate Andy1000 went off a bit premature a week ago and embarrassed Zoopla, Vectis and RICS. Mouthing off isn’t the way to UX test anything especially when you have a back catalogue of insults aimed at your customers.
I have to say this whole affair has bought into sharp focus how RICS have/ are condoning a system of property valuation that really is no better than woefully amateur. Now RICS has been forced to look at this particular valuation system it is not something they can continue to ignore.
Advice on value is as important as any financial advice but where to sell any product regulated by FCA it appears anyone is allowed to value property or publish systems that purport to do the same.
trails you say 1stTimeBuyer…. it’s a trial reading your posts and I only wish they were as short as Hoopla’s trials.
A spokesperson for Zoopla said: “It was always a short–term limited trial which has now ended.”
Remind us please, Zoopla – just HOW short-term was it planned?
No need – I know the answer.
Until you were sussed.
Unfortunately for you, though, THIS TIME you were sussed too early.