Eye had this press release from Zoopla late yesterday, which we reprint in full below. It is followed by a statement from Ian Springett, chief executive of OnTheMarket, which was issued this morning.
“As latest independent data shows ZPG audience around 100x that of OTM
The latest data from independent web monitoring firm Hitwise shows that over the first two weeks since the launch of OnTheMarket (OTM) it has attracted a total of 194,000 visits (an average of 14,000 per day) versus 18.8 million visits for Zoopla Property Group (ZPG) over the same period.
The Hitwise data reveals that ZPG’s daily audience has averaged 97 times that of OTM over the two week launch period and that OTM’s market share of all UK property website visits during this period stands at just 0.22% in comparison to ZPG’s market share at 22%. This data implies that at current levels an OTM agent would get the same level of exposure and enquiries in 3 months that an agent on ZPG would get in a single day.
Assuming similar visit to enquiry conversion rates for OTM as Zoopla and Rightmove, estimated enquiries generated by OTM over its first 2 weeks would be less than 10,000 (2 per branch) versus almost 1 million for ZPG (or 57 per branch) giving an implied cost per lead of over £65 for OTM and under £3 for ZPG respectively, based on publicly available average rate information.
And Zoopla Property Group has confirmed that it has already re-signed a number of agents who had previously cancelled to join Agents’ Mutual as they have quickly realised the damage to their business and reputation of the restrictive ‘only one-other portal’ rule and not being visible to the significant audience offered by all the major portals.
Lawrence Hall of Zoopla Property Group said, “We can confirm that a small number of agents who had previously left to join OTM have already returned even in the first 2 weeks. These agents have already realised that the Agents’ Mutual experiment is hurting them and they are no longer prepared to be guinea pigs in this process and lose out on valuable exposure and enquiries.”
This morning, Ian Springett said: “As we have stated previously, the Hitwise figures which continue to be reported by Zoopla are inaccurate and demonstrate Zoopla’s increasing desperation to reduce the number of agents who are removing their properties and advertising expenditure from them to list with OnTheMarket.com
“It’s only our third week and we have already overtaken Zoopla in certain spots of the country with our property listings. We know OnTheMarket.com is already producing excellent leads for member agents and we are confident of becoming the number two portal within a year.
“In around 90% of cases, our members have chosen to remove their listings from Zoopla and we have also been told by many that having removed their properties from their less effective portal, it has become obvious just how many leads were previously duplicated.
“The feedback about the website has been overwhelmingly positive and our multi-million pound advertising campaign is continuing to drive the expansion of our membership base each day along with consumer traffic.”
Comments (143)
Exactly why high street agents need to support OTM. I would suggest you try and repost this earlier in the morning tomorrow, as I find after 24 hours not many people appear to go back to old news! You got a “Like” from me.
Cheers Woodentop.You’ll see plenty posts from me at all times of the day.
OnTheMarket has proved there is no point in 3 Portals…. and that No 2 Portal is pointless! Zoopla are dead in the water unless they find real ambition, drive & strategy to tackle Rightmove…. however they won’t as they are happy to settle for the runner-up/last spot. Zoopla have demonstrated their monumental lack of ambition to be No 1 Portal and further, they have turned their floppy gun on OTM again, only in an effort to protect their No 2 status…. another monumental indicator of Zero ambition to be No 1…… Zoopla is a dead portal walking! The UK Estate Agency Market requires 1 Portal!…. and that is currently Rightmove, they are pushing they are the biggest, the best etc etc etc….so, let’s acknowledge Zoopla is dead! Rightmove are pumping their member fees and creating monumental resentment within the industry and filling their fighting fund coffers for the real battle! Rightmove will only engage to protect No 1 status and Zoopla have never threatened them, hence RM are more than happy to have a weak No 2. I backed OnTheMarket on the basis that it will have to battle it’s way to No 1 spot which will ultimately be determined by the UK Estate Agency Industry backing OTM, firstly to occupy No 2 spot with a view to stepping into No 1 spot. Rightmove build their funds in the interim, seeks other revenue, other advertisers, uk estate agents will continue to fund the Rightmove Monster because they fear backing OTM? Forgive me fellow estate agents….do you go out to value/take-on properties and say you really need 2 estate agents to sell your property as 1 isn’t enough!?….. yet we swallow the 2 portal myth!…. it must be 2….not 1!….. really?…..I only see 1 Portal….Rightmove! If the UK Estate Agency Industry doesn’t back OTM as No 2 Portal on-route to No 1 then we are doomed!…. we will be forever the Monkeys dancing to the Rightmove Organ Grinder……we may as well re-brand the UK Estate Agency Industry as Rightmove! It’s your call UK Estate Agents……I’ve got probably another 10 Years in this industry that I love and have worked in for almost 30 Years….. if you don’t take this opportunity to drive OnTheMarket to the No 1 Portal in the UK you will join me in retirement in the future and spend the rest of your days muttering…. if only we had! Zoopla are dead….. No 2 Portal is for the weak, the runner-up, the portal that never drove on to the No1 spot. Zoopla stands for failure!….plain & simple! Rightmove, backed by UK Estate Agents have demonstrated what is possible…..unless we back OTM with the intention of being No1 Portal, then frankly, don’t bother!…..backing No 2 spot only is a waste of time!…..our industry doesn’t need 2 Portals…….that’s why Great Auntie Rightmove sits quietly in her well funded portal chair whilst the drowning man that is Zoopla tries gamely to stay afloat! Don’t fear Rightmove?…..we created them…. we can replace them…. however we won’t unless you get on board with OTM. It’s astounding to think that we have become sheep being herded by Rightmove…. and when given a route to freedom……we sit frightened at the gate?……the nation would never have moved forward if no-one was prepared to venture forward and change the future! And to the RM, Zoop Reps etc on this forum…… shuffle off and contribute elsewhere……I’m fed up with you defending your respective companies!…… the only place that you have in my industry is if I select your company to provide services……. I don’t need to hear you bleating on about how our business relies on you?….. we created and fund your business….. without us you would be gazing at your keyboards wondering what to do next! Bring your dislike clicks on!
WOW!!! No ‘Dislikes’ on my last post??
Where’s my ‘Dislikers’ when you expect them most…?
I feel… abandoned by my ickle band of hecklers… ;o)
So PeeBee what we really want to know is 1) do you have the correct portal logos showing on your site and window 2) did you advise your clients with enough notice of your change of portal 3) are you doing the 48 exclusive period and are you telling your clients as such and 4) when did you sign up 🙂
Now, Paul H – don’t you know… there are some questions you really shouldn’t ask a lady!
;o)
This is just too much….I need a lie down 😉
Is that some kind of offer?
Don’t push your luck old boy 😉
AHEM!… just to re-cap – YOU offered – don’t go all coy on me now, Paul H… ;o)
Can we at least know if the villagers in your area up North bring you their first born children?!!
The rumour is, I am afraid, just that, RealAgent.
But I am partial to the occasional whippet. ;o)
My burning question is what made you take the leap?
Or was he in fact pushed……
Or dragged, kicking and screaming, even…
Who knows?
I wonder if PeeBee got outvoted in the board room?!
But who cares she’s on board now!
All I will say, Paul H, is that there was ‘a certain air’ around the table…
I have been a fly on the wall for the past few months just reading the endless posts regarding ZPG, RM and AM and I have sat curiously wondering why the founder members of AM didn’t drop both ZPG and RM, I believe they are some of the biggest agents in the country, an obvious exeption would be Countrywide, which have their own portal anyway (haven’t seen an advert as yet for it). Surely if the market share from both ZPG and RM had dropped significantly around the launch of AM’s website OnTheMarket.com, any vsitors may have noticed that there are exclusive listings and continued to visit the site in higher drones than they are currently. Just an observation, maybe some agents will take this into consideration, especially the ones that are more than confident in their own brand awareness and Estate/Letting Agency expertise.
My dyslexia is on max this morning, I can’t work out what you are trying to say.
You have a system don’t you Peebee? how many applicants match each property and what did they say when you sent them details? how does the number of matching applicants tie in with the 4000 visitors?
The Good Old Hot Box is still performing as it always has, Robert!
We even booked a viewing during a power-cut last week.
Twenty-six minutes from instructed to offer received…
Didn’t even hit the portals as ‘Available’. ;o)
Sorry Peebee, good attempt at a dodge but you telling me you are using a hotbox is a blaring hooter that tells me your software isn’t working! That wasn’t the question, I am trying to get down and dirty with actual numbers. I would guess, having profiled you as a prospect over umpteen years, your register of applicants is between 250 and 400 in total. On these properties I reckon you would notify/mail out (if you could) 150-180 of that applicant database expecting a maximum 24 to show an interest and possibly view. You can tell me I am wrong Mr, Ms, prefer not to say Peebee but it seems to me as if OTM is playing the same numbers game as the other portals.
Robert – only YOU could give me a PeeBeeing! ;o)
The “blaring hooter” you refer to is partially correct – in that our swanky new cloud has more than a few black linings – but that doesn’t completely explain the fact that at the end of the day matey I’m just an old f@rt who likes to be able to refer to the occasional bit of paper or two when I forget to feed the meter!
But in terms of ‘numbers’… well – we currently have the lower end of your guesstimation. As you say, of those, a couple of dozen max will so much as raise their eyebrows at a mailer and on a good day/week/year a third of those will ask for more details.
I don’t think there is any other game a portal can play other than the dreaded “numbers game”, Robert.
Pity, really – considering how we know that the very same principle has chuffer up our own industry…
A KNC portal perhaps, but your portal doesn’t need to play that game of deception. Telling it hard and brutally honest surely has to work for OTM and AM.
50 applicants looked at OTM, 24 viewed, 3 bought!
Your paper system that works when the power goes off demanded discipline, you couldn’t fit 4000 arbitary bits of paper in a hotbox with the same name written on 10 another name written on another 8 you certainly didn’t have 3750 anons that you can take to the partner and say I have been mining the applicant register these 3750 bits of info might be looking? that is madness so why is it less mad for a portal as the basis of your subscription?
Okayyyy… someone has to do this so it might as well be me…
I’ve picked three properties at random from my stock – a 2-bed ‘cheapie’ flat; a nice three bed 70s semi and a detached bungalow on a newish estate – which I hope you agree represents a reasonable spread of property types (it certainly is in my patch).
The flat has had 49.2% of the number of Summary Views with OTM to the total on RM.
The semi achieved 71.2%
The bungalow got 25.7% of Summary Views on OTM.
SO???
Reality is – NONE of those 4,000-odd “visitors” have picked up the phone to view any of the three properties that they have ‘searched’ for.
I’m advertising two of them tomorrow in the local rag- if this week is like any other, we will have viewings booked by the weekend on at least one of them.
Hang on hold the front page! Does this mean YOU are on OTM?? or are you copying this from another thread?! I had you down as a total non supporter!
Dann nannn narrrrrrh!!!! say it ain’t so Peebee! Paul H will have a field day!
Yep equally as confused! – I thought you had a splintered backside as well!
There are overtones of PeeBee in that posting but could it be the PeeBee lookalike?! I think this story could be bigger than conthemarket gate….I won’t sleep tonight.
Put us out of our misery PeeBee 🙂
I’m refreshing this page like a madman!
Why the surprise? Peebee came out months ago during a handbagging session with, from memory, Wilko. I was surpised no-one else said anything especially you Paul.
My god how could I have missed that?! My portaldar is normally so bang on!
Well if PeeBee has signed up, hats off to him for playing devils advocate for months and looking at both sides of the argument. A true professional!
I would offer to find the post but tracking the veiled and somewhat obtuse revelation and the sheer volume of posts between Wilko and Peebee it is near impossible to find , but it was there.
PeeBee, you do realise that you will get more ‘likes’ now dont ya 😉
You’ve really gone and messed that up Robert 😉 but back to PeeBee. I’m shocked it has to be said but I will try not to treat him any differently. Although it has to be said I even finding myself doubting everything; is the world indeed flat, have emoove got a business, is in fact PeeBee even a man, could he actually even be a g g g girl? The balance of the universe has been disturbed!
About 3 times a day I do that, Nick’s techie has built some form of ancient WP component into the site and it hates us dyslexics who rely on Word. In fairness to Nick he has given me a 7 stage work around to stop me messing up the site, but an 8 year habit of Ctrl A, Ctrl X, Ctrl V, return is a hard habit to break.
Wow shocked. Its like somebody “Coming Out” good luck to you Peebee, you are no different in my eyes 😉
Ros….I think this needs to be the lead story tomorrow!
I was about to suggest the same!
My head is still spinning, i have so many questions for him. Where is he when you need him!
Let’s see, Second Wednesday in the month? Swingers till 8.
Well it’s really led me to question if I really know this man PeeBee. Some say he is from a small village up North where the first born of every family is offered to him as a ritual sacrifice ……..
OTM defectors, wow right in the n*ts. Jeez Zoopla’s just re-arranging furniture so I called Houser instead and boy, being the sensitive singer songwriter type I thought revenge would be all empty and hollow but I was wrong, its awesome! Ok I’m kidding but come on dude, stats after a couple of weeks is dumb so you have to figure their eagerness to lay on their backs and point their heels to J*sus really lacks class. Sure, I can call a Zoopla rep and we can go back and forth over this, then maybe we can hold each other for a while and see how we feel after that but honestly; its way too soon to be having second thoughts about OTM. Look, we’re all trying to get a handle on our own business, the future of high street agency and consumer choice so that kind of disconnect has got to sting but like any good money shot , you’ve got to wait a while to see it.
Funnily enough Ive been thinking about this today, perhaps not in the way you think about things Tuf Luv, but then to be fair who would. The point is though why would Zoopla, a multi national public listed company be bothering to issues press statements claiming a “small number” of agents have returned? The only conclusion I can reach is that they are very very concerned about OTM gaining any more ground. The stats releases are a smokescreen, they know that their proposition is weak and the more agents see the slow but definitive progress of OTM the more it actually offers something uniquely different to RM which they in fact have tried, but have never managed to do.
As you and possibly Bon Jovi would say “keep the faith”
I hear you RealAgent and Its cool that you get me because jeez, half the time I’m jacked up on peanut M&M’s or having to deal with the missus who every time I get in the shower with her she’s like “dude get the hell out of here!”
I feel for you about the misses and like you said though Tuf; that sort of disconnect has gotta hurt also. Perhaps next time you could try not going for the money shot quite as quickly… see if that helps!
I see what you did there…
Clever ain’t I !
Im not an AM or OTM supporter but def would consider it if they could generate the leads that I get from RM or Z – my stance before you read this
Im glad these agents are few and far between shows that the rest of us know our businesses and what will work for us
What I don’t understand is how an agent gives in after 3 weeks! (that is poor in anyones book) I hope that those agents that come back to Zoopla have a huge fee slapped at them.
If you couldn’t afford to lose the business zoopla generated then the decision to drop Z on day 1 was possibly the most idiotic decision they’ve made recently (money and time they will never get back)
If they thought they could drop Z with no effect on their business and now they realise they can’t why wasn’t this addressed months ago (shows that this agent obviously didn’t research the impact well enough)
Other agents aren’t leaving so shows that there is something wrong with these agents businesses (if they had such a detrimental effect)
I just cant understand the rationale that any of these agents have had going back (if they thought zoopla wasn’t going to impact their business and left why go back)
I’m guessing that these EA’s did at least know something about their business so the reasons to leave Z should be questioned, and now the reason to go back is even worse because they will spend more time and money.
I hope these guys get out of the Estate Agency business as they obviously aren’t clever enough to know their business inside and out like most of the rest of us. If I was a vendor I would be moving my properties immediately away from these guys.
I wonder what happens when they don’t sell a property within 3 weeks of launch? maybe they contact the vendor and tell them to go back to the last agent they listed with.
letting us all down. 🙁
How much do you trust Z to be telling the truth that agents are going back? The constant bickering over OTM does prove a point…. it’s got a lot of supporters and those that aren’t, well what is all the fuss about if you think it is a flop, but more importantly from a neutral standing the markets are very worried that Z may collapse, remember this was happing before OTM came along and same applies to RM who have been buying back their shares to keep afloat.
Zoopla have just said to the world
Agents don’t trust us, they voted with their feet and are back in desperation.
the only good point that I can see here is that they are trying to tell ppl how good they are. To me they have said exactly the opposite.
I will still list with zoopla as I cant personally afford for us to lose enquiries from zoopla.
but the question I have to ask myself “if everyone is searching on Z + RM are the Z enquiries going to come through Rm if I was to leave Z?”
probably ‘yes’ but I personally cannot afford to throw caution to the wind and find out. I have to run at full tilt to make ends meet at the moment and all I would do is possibly ruin my business. not willing to take that chance but i’ll be there to jump on the bandwagon later on whichever way it goes
I do feel a bit bad that I am tied to these 2 but i’m not going to reduce my outgoings and possibly harm my income to take a side.
“but the question I have to ask myself “if everyone is searching on Z + RM are the Z enquiries going to come through Rm if I was to leave Z?”…I think you will find that nearly all OTM agents are slowly realising that they never needed to be on both RM and Z, they are still getting the enquiries and still have access to nearly all buyers and tenants on the market in their area, it is one benwfit of not being an online agent.
“…I think you will find that nearly all OTM agents are slowly realising that they never needed to be on both RM and Z…”
And I think you will find that some were never on both to start with…
PIE readers/OTM subscribers would be wise to read the story ‘on the other side’ and ask themselves how many of them are doing this!!?
Smile please, they were signed as Silver and the ‘Admin fee’ was thousands!
Join OTM NOW, not tomorrow or the day after………Web sites are nothing more than an electronic 24/7 newspaper advertising to customers. So why would a hard working professional high street estate agent want to support any company that openly encourages web only anti estate agent portals to damage not only their professionalism but openly are anti-estate agent, openly want to put you out of business, undercuts fees with a poor customer service and is a THREAT to your existence. And they are bleeding you dry financially. Try telling your wife and kids why you have creditors knocking on your door and you can’t even afford a Christmas present because you rolled over and eventually went bankrupt. Has the light come on yet?
Would you advertise in a local property paper with a circulation of a few hundred or one with a few thousand?
Thats the issue ROI – Agree 100% on your out look of what they do but its the reach that is the issue.
But right now I don’t believe that “Reach” is the issue for most agents, the issue is stock.
Agents are getting the reach through the ‘other’ portal they are using as all the available buyers and tenants are finding them that way.
Do you mean a lack of stock for agents (yep i agree with that, could probably sell each property 4 times over)
To me they are hand in hand reach and stock. The public dont know that selling property is actually quite easy in this market. and as high street agents we earn our fee through negotiation and progression.
They think maximum exposure will get them the best price (and to some extent they are right).
And to me its all about winning the instruction.
I dont know your patch or your daily issues as you do not know mine. But in my area its not unheard of for a vendor to have 5 valuations. In my patch they may have 2 of the perceived smaller agents out that are on RM and OTM and they have 3 perceived large agents on RM and Z Without going into the fors and against most vendors (as shown in my patch) will go with one of the three.
In my part of the world we do not have any of the founding agents so it holds no sway letting the public know who they are as the public have never heard of them the market leaders are offering RM and Z and the public know these brands.
Yes I mean lack of stock for agents. I’m hearing stories about agents over valuing even more and dropping fees just to get stock but in general (and I appreciate that this may not be the case in your area) agents are not losing stock due to a lack of buyers or tenants.
The point i’m making is that Zoopla are fighting the wrong battle, the problem is not having no one to sell to, the problem is having nothing to sell. And personally I cannot see this changing until after the election.
Chicken and egg, you could argue to get called out to more valuations you need to advertise in certain places ……. Those places may differ from town to town, city to city of course.
And once you are out to that val you want the instruction which again may differ location where the vendor wants to see their property advertised.
But yes third quarter we should see more property on the market in general!
“You could argue that to get called out to more valuations you need to advertise in certain places”…in some areas maybe but not so much in my area. The real selling is when your in the house, and right now in my view saying your on this portal or that portal is probably way down the pecking order for any vendor, as if theyre looking to buy right now they will see how much lack of stock there is. What’s important is the ability to show that you will work hard on their behalf when negotiating the price and seeing the sale through to completion. Any objection for both OTM agents and non OTM agents can easily be overcome in a market with hardly any stock.
i guess the diplomatic thing to say is that we work in very different areas 😉
I’m not so sure you guys do, SP…
This is the core of the matter and in my opinion why OTM will never be successful if the “one other portal” rule is retained. We as agents make our money from selling properties. While we want to sell those properties for the highest-possible price, an extra percent or two on the selling price doesn’t make that big a difference to our bottom lines at the end of the day. At the end of the day, the argument from the pro-OTM crowd on here that dropping one of the portals doesn’t have a huge effect on the business isn’t really that far off–in the short term at least. The challenge isn’t the selling, it’s getting the stock to sell, and that’s where dropping RM or ZPG for OTM may make a bigger negative dent down the line. Zoopla rose to power as the #2 portal not because it was greatly beneficial to eventual selling outcomes–especially when it was less well known and generated far fewer leads. They were successful because they offered agents a unique selling point to vendors to help those agents acquire stock. So while the one-other-portal rule exists, AM is forcing potential vendors to choose between a “RM & Zoopla” agents or a “RM & OTM” agent, etc., which is a battle that OTM will never win with all the numbers going against it. Only by allowing OTM to be additive will it provide the same USP and garner broad-reaching support.
I agree with some of that but I would argue the opposite when it comes to getting stock. Much more has been played on the pages of this publication and through some other media outlets, thanks in part to news hungry editorial staff anxious to write some stories (not you Ros!) but the truth is, out there in the real world at best you are going to get a half hearted response from most clients about which portals you even advertise on, let alone whether it be RM, Z, OTM or some combination. However as I have posted elsewhere on this thread, what agents do have with OTM is the ability to make a positive distinction to gain instructions: ” Mr & Mrs Jones, as well as all the other sources of marketing we have discussed we will be doing for you, we have also listed your property on Rightmove which is currently the biggest property portal but also Onthemarket, which you may have seen advertising recently, but offers a better advert for your home with its larger better laid out photos, but also is where most of the high end agents advertise which is like having your mercedes in the same garage as the Bentleys and Rolls Royces. It has to improve its value doesn’t it” Two portals competing for the same market space RM and Z and struggling themselves to make a distinction, or two very different looking portals? I know what I think is the instruction winning combination!
“Would you advertise in a local property paper with a circulation of a few hundred or one with a few thousand?”
SP – can I answer? Please Sir? Pretty please?
Both.
Or one.
On none.
Potentially (…and highly possibly…) all three of the above – but obviously not all at the same time.
For those asking what RM and Z’s visitor traffic was in the first month of launch – it is irrelevant … When RM in particular launched there were no other nationally known (if any) portals and internet use was a fraction of what it is today. Therefore 1) RM had no real competition in the portal sector and 2) they had to spend hugely to drive and retain traffic and also constantly test and develop the site to make it interesting and easy to use. When Z came along in addition to their own new site they bought up other portals (PrimeLocation being the ‘prime’ example) to instantly gain traffic and market share + they have spent so heavily developing the brand that they are now have the UK’s third biggest advertising spend behind only McDonald’s and Coca Cola … and they still lag well behind RM. OTM by comparison have launched into a vastly more mature internet market place, in a highly competitive part of that market where RM and Z have huge public awareness and 10s of millions of guaranteed visits each month and where c30% of visitors prefer one or the other site to the degree that they use it exclusively … And that is why comparing RM and Z traffic at launch to OTM is irrelevant. On the one hand buyers and sellers now understand and use portals but on the other hand two portals are more than enough choice when any competition cannot offer any USP that has any major appeal to RM and Z users. Sellers lost nothing when their homes were advertised at RM’s launch, they could only gain, and being on both RM and Z when it launched was similarly advantageous … now being on the unknown OTM with a fraction of either RM or Z’s eyeballs looking at their home is hugely disadvantageous. AM agents might be happy to let OTM’s traffic grow … but the message being banged out loud and clear by my agency to sellers, and I bet by most other non AM agents, is that it is the number of eyeballs seeing your home NOW that is relevant … why be a pawn or guinea pig in a grandiose gamble by huffy estate agents?
To clarify … that **** in my post is actually the stuffing in the sandwich that Roy Keane referred to in his famous comment about ManU’s supporters. It’s also the first word of the US series **** Stars starring a certain Chumley.
Nobody can argue, sound comment and well thought out.
I know sometimes you get a roughing up on here Harree, But putting your neck on the line, as a high street agent, do you like the idea of OTM and what they are trying to achieve? What would make you advertise with them?
smile please … I’ve said on here before that I agree with everything about AM except the one portal rule. It is a fatally flawed business model and doomed to fail and will in the process do nothing for the overall reputation of EA’s.
Would you happily pay for three portals then if the rule was dropped?
Yes I would. My suggestion months ago was that AM should drop the one portal rule, have a £50 per month subscription for 3 months paid in advance with the rule being that all AM agents advertised on OTM for the first 72 hours. I reckon 80%+ of EA’s would have joined on this basis massively increasing AM’s cash mountain and stock and providing a great USP that would would have shaken RM and Z to the core ie., no new stock for 72 hours. I proposed this to an AM board member and was brushed off.
Its an interesting take, I guess at £50 per month, hell even £100 i would be happy to list as a third and give 72 hours exclusivity in the hope to become number 1 portal.
As I say…. the smoke here seems to be Zoopla hiding away that they are being hammered by Rightmove! Zoopla is a company with NO ambition! Years of playing No 2…. embarrassing! Why bother with Zoopla?…. at least in my area?…. Zoopla are a waste of time. I have invested with OTM with the view of it becoming the No 1 Portal!!…. not settling for the No 2, which Zoopla have! I accept the growing pains of OTM and the time involved to get to No 1…. however I would rather that route than invest in Zoopla, a company that excels only in being No2/last! In Zoopla you are in effect investing in failure…. a company that accepts No2 to Rightmove?….. failure! I’m in with OTM for the long haul! I can remember when Apple was a failure! Zoopla have settled as Runner-up…. full stop!….. so in effect they are a waste of money as they have demonstrated they cannot take No1 spot! I’ll invest with OTM and either succeed or fail trying to succeed! Zoopla have NO ambition to be No1….. for them Failure was an acceptable option!…. for me?…. no thanks Zoopla!
I think there is something in your comments but i dont think Z were happy with number 2 or lacked ambition.
I think they thought they had more time, did not have to throw as much money at it and will over a period of years rival RM. (same as OTM now)
Difference is when Z would make it to No1 they would charge like RM!
I think with OTM coming along they have had to open up the war chest and fight with their saved millions.
But as Wilko said i think they are fighting the wrong war. instead of OTM they should be focusing on RM. Almost an alliance Pitch to agents be with OTM and Z both reps could sell this and damage RM.
If Z then tried to hike prices later down the line strike an alliance with RM.
The problem i now see for OTM is how do they recruit new agents? everybody who is interested will have signed up by now. There needs to be something else that captures the agents that have not yet committed.
I agree with Wilko in that Zoopla are picking a fight with the wrong competitor and over the wrong issue. They must realise by now that the 4600 or so branches are not going to lose their resolve after only 3 weeks, especially when you consider that for most agents it’s business as usual as they are not having a problem finding buyers or tenants the issue is lack of stock.
Agency owners can see through all these press releases and won’t be swayed.
If Zoopla came back to me right now and offered me an attractive deal then I along with many other agents would listen.
For the record I know of an agent who had the am rep in and was complaining about how bad the launch was and was offered the option to drop to a 6 month contract but with a hefty admin fee!
Is this a gold member who signed up for 5 years?
What is a hefty admin fee? hundreds or thousands?
I’ve said it before and I truly believe that Zoopla are making the wrong business move by just nit picking with OTM. At a time of varied and excessive increases from Rightmove Zoopla should be concentrating on winning business from Rightmove. How many of us would consider a switch if the price and proposition was right?
Bang on the money!
Zoopla already have an all singing all dancing website with a well known national brand.
Instead of trying to fight OTM they should be making a play for RM’s agents.
A third of the cost and delivers everything RM does just is not seen as the industries number 1 portal.
Every agent they lost they should be contacting not to get away from OTM but RM. If they got momentum in a town they could be the biggest portal and RM would finally lose agents!
So, some agents have returned to Z. Presumably that would be more than 1 and less than 3!
I think the most interesting thing to come out of this story is the split between the agents.
Before launch it was lorded that every agent will be on this revolutionary new portal, why would they not be? you will see come 26.1.15
And just from this story it seems there are many agents who like the idea but dont support it as the offer just is not that good.
OTM was never going to keep all the agents happy but they do not have a majority of agents supporting them, that’s the biggest issue. They dont need 100% but to make it work they probably needed 60 – 70% for market share and awarness.
For every PRO OTM singing the praises on valuation there are 3 that are putting it down. As a seller who knows little about portals who will you believe?, The one agent singing its praises or the majority that dont?
And before somebody says it not all the posters who are not 100% sold on the idea are reps for Z or RM!
I’m not sure it was lorded that every agent would be on it come 26.1.15 SP. It think it was widely publicised that some 4500 offices would be.
As I have already posted there was never going to be the same visits as RM or Z but it depends on what individuals want from it: for me it was the end game of helping to develop a portal to rival RM but that aside I now have a volume site like RM with its small pictures and a better looking (yes I know its subjective) site with bigger photos and aligned with agents perceived to be higher end in their marketing; this in turn ups my market price perception. Like I said in the end good causes aside, it is about what a portal does for you. Two of the same did nothing, this combination however is proving its worth to me already.
I think you are right with the better looking site, it is much cleaner and easier to view.
Glad it is working for you, Is that how you market yourself with the site? That you are on an industry known site and then a “High end” site? Genuine question, interested in how you sell it.
No, I wouldn’t say we market quite that way, but I think its fair to say we do promote it as a site which presents a sellers properties better. As a business we are definitely lower to middle market and so anything that helps shrug off our working class overalls has to be of benefit. Much is said on here about the hits RM and Z have but at the coal face, all that matters is what you get out of them. We got lots of leads from RM probably too many strangely, but Z was always something we did because they were cheap to start with and I thought why not. The bottom line though was that we didn’t need their leads to sell the houses as we did that and we had more than enough through our mailing list, our website and board presence. If anything we often cull our mailing list to ensure it’s manageable with only serious/motivated buyers. I didn’t know how OTM would look obviously before I signed up, I did that for other reasons I’ve mentioned many times, but now I have, its a very useful tool to show sellers we have two distinct ways their property will look. The other thing that works well is the early listing. We explain that the marketing is over stages and that the serious motivated ones are the ones they want to be seeing first as they are the ones who will usually pay the best prices. Most sellers can see the rationale behind this and appreciate you controlling their marketing rather than just list it and hope, which is what all the on liners and to be fair, some poorer quality high street agents do!
Good comment and thanks for your openness!
I must admit we dont really need Z for the buyers RM sorts that.
With out drilling down to your business are you sales or sales and lettings?
We are both Sales and Lettings, which if I am entirely honest Zoopla was strangely slightly better at than RM. That was a consideration when we switched to OTM, but we felt that tenant requests outweighed property supply at present so we felt it gamble worth taking and probably coincidentally took three lets at over £4k pcm last week (same owner they were joint with Savills – they wanted local presence)
I’m not quite sure if it’s a whiff of desperation. As another comparison, look at the social media side of things. Whilst it’s not comparing visits it does compare a companies ability to build and engage with its audience.
Rightmove Facebook likes – 151,000
Rightmove Twitter followers – 71,100
Zoopla Facebook likes – 264,000
Zoopla Twitter followers – 54,800
Onthemarket Facebook likes – 1945
Onthemarket Twitter followers – 1,966
Before anyone say it’s early days, it’s clear that OTM doesn’t even have the full support of their members (and staff, family members and friends etc) looking at the numbers above. They are clearly missing a trick and this highlights that someone does not know what they are doing. Perhaps an iPhone app would have helped with their stats. Or simply seeking the support of their members would have been a start.
I suspect once OTM have a little more traction, they will drop the one other portal rule as it seems impossible to police and OTM will generate a huge surge in listings. It wont take long for agents to gain the confidence to drop a portal especially in areas of high OTM concentration. I would also remove the opportunities for negative reports about agents migrating, listing on multiple portals (as they sure are) and will negate the ridiculous conundrum of ‘what is a portal’.
No chance. It won’t matter anyway of course, once Z goes. 🙂
You maybe right Eric, to be honest thats my biggest fear!
Instead of having to pay for two portals i will be having to pay for 3!
Smile Please you confuse me, you are one of the Agency owners on here who should not need anything more than your own website let alone 1 , 2 or 3 duplicate portals. Through your discussion with Paul H I have picked out a full set buying signals but AM simply does not satisfy your business needs or overcome your business objections to the AM model.
When you say you would need to pay for 3 sites you simply don’t strike me as the sort of agent who needs to cling to the safety net of RM and Zoopla but there is nothing for you to early adopt in their place.
I think the way the internet has evolved i need more then my website, I do spend a great deal in SEO PPC and development but still need portals as the public demand it.
We have cut down in local press over the last few years and put more money into online. I see portals as today’s property papers. (i am still in three local property papers but just a page in each)
In my patch (and this is different through out the country i know) it is incredibly competitive between 30 – 40 agents covering a 3 – 5 mile radius. In the last 3 months we have had four new agents start up alone (all on RM and Z).
At the moment i need to be on Z and RM as the public demand it.
I know if OTM dropped the one other portal rule my competition will be on all three and i will follow suit. For the say say circa 2k a month i will increase my spend, as just one instruction will pay for it (how many times have we heard that!).
I like the concept of OTM but it does not work in my region for me at this time. My hope is OTM does grow they do not lose the exclusivity rule and at a later date in time i along with my competition will drop RM and join on mass – sadly i think that day if far away if ever.
So yes confident in my business model, we are a strong agency with market share and profitability but its costs us to be at that point and i know what my clients want / expect.
“Through your discussion with Paul H I have picked out a full set buying signals”…Morning Robert I must have missed those. So when is your firm going to sign up Robert, assuming your back in estate agency?
I am not back in Agency Paul but if I were would support AM but not OTM in its current format.
Please don’t ask me why, it would not be fair to answer while the dev team are struggling with an obvious issue with the overnight site refresh.
Ah forgive me Robert but I saw you mention on another thread the other day about having to pop out for a viewing, I assumed you were back!
Got to say that the guys at OTM seem to be dealing with things/concerns fairly quickly. For example I and many other members raised the issue of the search facility not covering a wide enough area and then literally within a week the geolytics and location handling issues had been dealt with meaning that when you search now you see the properties covering the same search area as on Zoopla and Rightmove’s website. It’s this type of response to feedback that will help to make the site work I feel.
Come on Robert Do divulge?
I have a property to sell Paul, the one Purblebrick failed to win an instruction on despite being £660 cheaper than the AM agent I instructed.
Divulge? why I would support AM but not OTM. OTM is a 1990’s format that requires applicant DIY self service, as such it offers a level of service that falls below that expected from the member agents.
I think what is more interesting about this press release is that Zoopla are desperate. Why release it otherwise? The salient points for me are: A small number meaning what 1 maybe 2 agents? and if they were gold or silver members then good luck to them as they will be paying for an additional portal they are seemingly not using. More than that though, who in their wildest dreams expected OTM to be drawing the same number of visitors as Zoopla. So them issuing stats are two weeks seems bizarre. Finally what exactly does visits or hits to their site mean in real time. What they never say is how many viewings this represents or how many valuations (not that they ever proved accurate anyway). I am not going to claim that OTM is going to bring in the same response as RM, it won’t, yet or possibly ever, who knows. But what I do know is that I have asked all of my managers to keep a close eye on what they are getting and all are getting good enquiries, again not as good as RM but noticeable. I can also tell you that one office uploaded a property 48 hours in advance to OTM, but at the wrong price: within 2 hours they had had 6 calls from OTM. People are looking at it and right now with the cover of another portal I am happy I am offering my clients a great marketing mix.
Oh dear – is anyone expected to believe this? I can’t get my head around the stats above but it seems that OTM has anywhere between 1/33 and 1/100 of the traffic of Zoopla, and somehow a single property has had 6 calls?! Real agent = real OTM employee methinks…
Check out any of the other articles I think you will find I comment on other estate agency related articles not just the OTM ones!! Unlike yourself I hasten to add! …..You can believe it or not frankly I care not, having seen your other posts on this article it’s painfully obvious which posters have something constructive to say others just have to bad mouth those that bother to put a little more effort into their posting. You fall into the latter and by definition I suspect are someone for whom life has always been a struggle constantly looking up to agents who are prepared to move their businesses forward and are clearly more successful.
To be frank the launch was a joke and I’ve got a couple of agents emailing me direct to work with them and join a site the public has no interest in at a cost of over 12k a year for our offices! We could always get another site together to take down Google while we’re at it?
Zoopla sign up what……..2 / 3 small or possibly 1 branch businesses and guess what, we have a director spending his day doing press releases telling us about it, I’d have thought that signing up estate agents was business as usual at Zoopla in the same way listing a property is in ours? All has a big old whiff of desperation, if OTM are such a pimple on the a75e of the portal world why are they jibbering on about them……….bit like Faisals bitch boy going on about high street EAs all the time while telling us he’s going to wipe us all out, show some self respect and dignity people, it’s not a good look – Jonnie
I have a feeling that I’m going to regret getting involved in this trail today but here goes;
1. I wouldn’t believe a word Zoopla says in regards to stats however there are two points here. The first is that, as I have banged on about for the last 6 months, public awareness of OTM is zero. Secondly, whilst GPL’s point on the time scale comparison of Zoopla and OTM stats is a valid one, the fact cannot be escaped that OTM should have learnt all the lessons from RM/Zoopla/Prime Location and nailed their launch. They didn’t and as a result many genuine users that may have visited the site may not return in a hurry.
2. I agree with some of what GPL says in that I have been looking carefully at the quality of ‘lead’ that comes through via rightzoop. There is a night and day difference between the 2 in that Zoopla leads are of a far poorer quality due to the way they take the information. As a result it is becoming increasingly likely that I take the decision to reduce my spend with zoopla significantly, as a pre-curser to coming away from them all together. Originally this would have been a decision made to join OTM but, right now I’m not so sure as, from comments made to me by those agents that I know well, they have had nothing but trouble from launch day with some already taking the view of ‘giving it 3 months’.
3. Going back to my first point, every agent is well aware of the possible benefits of OTM being a success however it strikes me that very little conversation is being had in regards to what the benefit to the client/consumer is. We are all missing a trick if we forget that as all that we will be enabling is the dominance of rightmove, who are remaining very quiet as OTM and Zoopla duke it out.
probably one of the fairest summaries so far!
Comment of the week.
Many tanks to you both…it certainly seems to have got the blood flowing! 107 posts at the time of writing!
I wish when we were on Zoopla that I had 57 leads a week !
All the leads we had were absolutely rubbish due mainly to the way customers sent through their enquiries to most of the agents in the country not realising waist of time and money !
Are you saying the leads for OTM are better? – How is that possible? surely they both have the same data capture form?
As the late Mandy Rice-Davies famously said “Well they would say that wouldn’t they”!
Zoopla press release versus OTM, which has just launched? Remind me how long ago Zoopla launched? This is Zoopla who are not bothered by OTM however they produce detailed stats NOT on a like for like basis in the sense of 3 weeks activity versus ? years from Zoopla. I dropped Zoopla!…. ZERO impact on my business! ZERO impact. With the 1 other portal rule I have another portal provider… which is Rightmove for now…. why on earth would I need to go back to Zoopla again?… why would I bother going back to the No2 provider? Name these agents Zoopla so we can check your story. The 1 other portal rule works well because it removes the ridiculous scenario where an agent should be on both? Having selected my other portal I accepted it needed time to grow up to the Tipping Point at which point OTM becomes the No1 Portal. Forgive me Zoopla, you were No2 Portal and therefore of no use to my business in my area and so it has proved! Unless Zoopla address their No2 position against Rightmove then frankly you are pedalling the myth that No2 Zoopla is worthwhile using?…. nonsense for my business. OnTheMarket will continue to grow Zoopla and will replace your portal on-route to the No 1 position! It’s laughable that the Zoopla provide a comparison against a competitor which was launched 3 weeks ago. Thing is Zoopla, No 2 Portal is effectively last out of the 2 main UK Portals….. that’ll be why OTM aims for the No1 Portal. Your stats confirm what we always knew…. Zoopla have NO ambition and are content being No2 Portal!….. Zoopla’s New Slogan…. settle for 2nd best with Zoopla, a company with NO ambition!
GPL, as…entertaining… as I find your rants, can you please enlighten us as to why you were ever a member of Zoopla in the first place as, as you say, there is zero value in a portal unless it is the No 1 portal? Surely you knew they weren’t No 1 when you signed up? Or maybe when you last renewed your contract? Why did it take Ian Springett telling you that in order to have the privilege of paying a large number of £ to join the No 3 portal that you first considered dropping the No 2 portal?
It’s a pretty big assumption that with that level of traffic that OTM is the number 3 portal.
I would be amazed if there aren’t a great deal of agent websites that don’t have more traffic than 14000 visits a day. It’s tiny.
Its a good point, i wonder what foxtons for example average?
ukpropmaster…. I will enlighten you…. read carefully and digest! I wasn’t a member of Zoopla and I didn’t pay Zoopla one single penny!…. why would I bother? Zoopla? No 2? No ambition! My company is part of a network of approx 200 members and as part of the collective the Zoopla portal was available at Zero cost to my company. I never chose to be on Zoopla and wouldn’t pay to be on Zoopla. I did and do pay independently to be on RIghtmove. So when the collective dumped Zoopla it made no difference to me! As they were a FREE portal it was fine to be there, when asked to drop 1 portal…. no question gor me
oops?…. no question for me! Dump Zoopla!
So, to be clear, you left what you thought to be an ineffective, but nationally established number 2, to join an anonymous start up that is irrelevant to the public.
And this helps who?
sadly for the small minded and so called wannabes . The I convienant truth is that on the market will succeed inspite of it self and its business model.
DE- can you confirm that these huge figures released by the big portals excludes the visits from agents themselves via their login areas and checking their own listings. nope- didn’t think so. 10-20000 offices daily…adds up.
as i have said earlier, all this is noise. agents should be left to decide value at their local neighbourhood level.
I’m sure that does happen. However, RM & Z claim 1.5 million visits per day. take 20,000 (being generous) you still have 1480, 000.
All this and the ad budget is nearly blown, and everyone who has been on the site hasn’t returned. As has been discussed ad infinitum, if there’s nothing new/better there for the consumer, they won’t be interested.
You can still see everything you could previously on RM & Z. Nothing has changed, except in the eyes of the public a small group of agents have cut their marketing in half, to save a few quid.
Amazing tools for other agents to go after their vendors. It’s what I would do!
i don’t think 20 000 per day is being generous at all…but anyway, for the 3rd time my point this morning was just that hitwise isn’t the only authority in town and there are currently discrepancies…over and out.
Read previous & later posts to be enlightened digitalexpert
Far be it from me to tell you how to run your business GPL, but reading your comments there….you only need Rightmove.
Rant rant rant. GPL, you are starting to sound a little deranged. The reality is that I have already incorporated these stats into my vendor packs and will be using them to win business from my competitors. Up until now I haven’t had any real facts to go on other than the ‘in principle’ argument that OTM is new therefore has no traffic. Now I have evidence. Its not actually the ACTUAL traffic that makes a difference, its the fact that I can PROVE to your customers that you are hoodwinking them that matters. Its gonna hurt…
EHenderson, your personal insults are tiresome and as always from the comfort of your keyboard….. the test is whether you have the courage to use the word deranged when standing in the same room as me! It is indeed a weak & shallow person who spews derogatory terms about at their leisure!….. however it does demonstrate your limited ability in debate! My instructions & sales are already up on last year!….. that’s the only fact I need. Zoopla in my area?…… waste of time!…… fact. I accept that they will be the No1 in some areas, hence those that dumped Rightmove instead. I’ll leave you to engage yourself in the time honoured manner!
When rightmove or zoopla launched, they did not charge agents anywhere near what agents mutual are, nor did they make the same promises. So you can not for a second, compare the two.
Take away the agent / media / analyst and OTM staff visits and these figures MUST be bitterly disappointing to OTM agents. More importantly, once their clients understand the extent of massive loss of marketing exposure, they are very likely to be voting with their feet. Serious sellers want to be In The Market not simply On The Market. OTM could be fantastic for agents and their clients but anti-competition model is flawed – Limits membership (and with it greater support) Limits choice and flies in the face of consumer demand. Any model that only works by attempting to artificially manipulate an established mature market by restricting choice seems fundamentally flawed.
anyone got the info on rightmove and zoopla traffic in their first fortnight. give it a chance it’s not going to happen that quick, it’s like being a start up estate agency somewhere, Are you doomed to fail if you are not top agent in first month, of course not
Its a fair point but things have moved on since RM and a number of different portals forming Z launched. RM and Z had the time to grow as there was little or no competition. OTM needs to get a high hit rate in a quicker time.
Spot on. Launching OTM – and an excellent job they’ve done of it so far in my opinion – was the easy bit. Getting traction is going to be a bitch. Using using national press when you’ve got agents using local press seems like a misstep. Time will tell.
I just think it will take a few months, I never expected OTM to be number 2 within 2 weeks and I’m surprised if agents did think that.
I would expect the lower is unique visitors, the higher including all visits. This would include those returning, so in effect, counted multiple times.
Surely ALL of the visitors to OTM were estate agents. I’m not knocking it I really want it to work for agents.
this is interesting given another independent monitoring service- similarweb- put their traffic at around 450 000 in January with less than 1 week of being live under their belt.
i think we should wait for the first release from OTM once a full period has been served. i am not sure whether silence would be a better PR strategy for Zoopla in the meantime.
To be fair, Hitwise is the industry standard measure. Rightmove, Z, national newspapers, and pretty much all accountable media use the same measure.
Therefore it’s standardised.
i feel i am being fair DE….Similarweb does a pretty good job and in any case hitwise whilst recognised as a player is not the industry standard as you put it- comscore may have a thing to say about that, as would google
my view DE is that the OTM figures are a lot higher than the hitwise figures suggest at this early stage and it may be prudent to wait a little.
That’s a fair point – maybe Similarweb are trying to break up the web-score duopoly enjoyed by the devils Comscore & Hitwise! 🙂
I wonder how Hitwise have got it so wrong for OTM though when every other major site uses it in their marketing…
i haven’t seen the hitwise figures first hand, but that aside…i don’t know why there’s such a huge discrepancy and as such advising prudence is all until whatever it is irons out or there are de facto figures from the OTM publisher ie google analytics. as you well know DE, everything else is panel based estimation and problems DO occur.
Of course, it’s only statistically accurate when at least 3 sources can be quoted.
Will be interesting to see official figures. Independent figures.
With respect quoting those numbers in that context is misleading at best. Similarweb shows 460K for the month. Launch date of 26th accounted for 123K of that number, followed by a swift decline to 50K then 26K on 31st. 110K of the visits were referrals from stories in the press. The balance shows on similar web as visits prior to launch, not a huge amount daily but x 25 it adds up to a chunk of the 460K. That said, the stats that matter are 2-3 months away when the the ad campaigns, agent cheerleading and sponsorship of Tickle-on-the-Tums U15 footy team has kicked in. One of the those campaigns is still not confirmed.
lol. why don’t you then apply your forensic discounting to the big 2 and take off all agent visits- millions per month.
True enough. Which just leaves the remaining multiple millions of visits from buyers and sellers…