The relentless onslaught against traditional agents continued over the weekend, with a headline in the Sunday Telegraph asking: “Is this the end of the road for high-street estate agents?”
The sub-heading says: “The internet has revolutionised the way we buy and sell property with disastrous consequences for traditional agents.”
And the article itself confidently starts: “Everyone loves to hate estate agents.”
The feature is about the latest online business, Yopa (Your Online Property Agent), which the article says does not charge upfront. The website actually says it does charge upfront, but according to a tweet yesterday, vendors can choose to pay upfront or defer payment for six months.
Its fees range from £510 to £870 to include listings on Zoopla and Rightmove.
Chief executive Dan Attia told the Telegraph: “Estate agency is an archaic industry which has not been reformed for many years and needs someone to ruffle its feathers. I want this to be as disruptive as Airbnb has been.
“It is a similar business model except that we aren’t doing short-term rentals. Buying a home is a much more serious transaction and there is a lot more work involved at our end.”
According to Telegraph writer Caroline McGhie, Attia despairs of the way agents routinely overprice, leave a property hanging on the market for a couple of months, then start dropping the price.
Attia said: “It happens all the time. Our margins are so tight, we have an incentive to sell quickly. The service lasts for six months, so if we sell in the first month we make more profit, and if we sell in the last month we make very little.”
Meanwhile, iProperty (the property portal that bans estate agents but allows private sellers and developers – it is backed by the NHBC) has raised £200,000 in exchange for a 5% stake on Seedrs.
An article in the Mail on Sunday quotes iProperty’s chief executive: “The world is changing and there’s no need to pay extortionate fees to agents.”
And a few pages later on, the Mail carries advice to “second steppers” moving up the housing ladder, saying they should have no difficulty selling as there is no shortage of first-time buyers and buy-to-let purchasers.
The article says: “The high demand means second-steppers can save money by avoiding expensive estate agents and trying to sell direct using an online agent.”
Such issues were debated at length on Eye on Friday after online agent Sarah Beeny said that high street offices are empty and redundant.
Our readers made a range of interesting, enlightening and pertinent points.
But this is not so much a PR battle as a war zone.
Everyone is entitled to their opinion, and businesses to their own business models. Consumers are entitled to choose online-only agents or the DIY route – it is not as though there is a law that says they have to use traditional agents.
But surely it is time the industry fought back. It is time for the vilification to stop.
We probably need one single issue as the focus, so let us have your ideas.
The NAEA and ARLA have a decent budget for PR, and two new Presidents, both of whom are openly passionate about the industry. Can they nail their colours well and truly to the mast, demonstrating outstanding leadership – and what better legacy to leave behind in 12 months’ time?
The RICS, NALS and UKALA could also be asked to unite in a really vocal pro-agent, consumer-facing campaign which should not divide the industry – online-only operators do, after all, offer choice – but should set the agenda.
And how about using some of the industry’s obvious ambassadors – natural leaders who are articulate and media-friendly, such as Eric Walker, Jan Hytch, John Paul, and Peter Rollings? If PR and marketing advice were needed, who better than Peter Knight? And involve John Wriglesworth too, since his firm has a number of prominent high street agents as clients.
It goes without saying that Eye will lend whatever support and ideas we can.
Such a campaign could and should also enlist Kevin Hollinrake, chairman of Hunters and now an MP.
He has first-hand experience of estate agency, and only last week, in announcing its forthcoming flotation, Hunters showed its hand firmly in favour of the future of the high street.
So, how about it?
The Sunday Telegraph report is here
Comments (104)
This is a very interesting read. The parallels to the insurance business 20 years ago, as mentioned above seems very clear.
The problem for High Street agents is that you have 20,000+ separate bodies all fighting on their own. It needs a body to act as a unifying brand identity, so it’s name and core values should can be clear.
For example a brand like ‘Trusted Local’ Estate Agents
– We’re experts in our field
– We know the local market inside out
– No upfront fees
– No sale, no fee guaranteed…
Etc – there needs to be a brand that all agents as part of the network can join.
It’s what corner shops did to boost their presence – Spa, Best Buy etc.
From there, they will benefit from brand awareness, specialist marketing, IT support etc, that all comes from the economies of scale.
Listened to all the comments and perhaps I might add mine as an industry outsider. Firstly, I am 100% behind high street estate agents and see very little threat from on-line operators. I have just completed my first two podcasts where I talk about the book Start with Why, by Simon Sinek. He writes about there being only two ways to influence human behavour: you either manipulate through PRICE, PROMOTION, FEAR, ASPIRATION, PEER PRESSURE, or INNOVATION. Whichever of these manipulations is being used or will be used by online agencies, they work short term but they do not breed loyalty. Loyalty is when people are willing to turn down a better product or a better price to continue doing business with you. Loyal customers often don’t even bother to research the competition or entertain other options. Repeat business or in this case, first time business is easily won. All it takes is more manipulation.
Find out ways to make your potential vendors loyal, well before they even think about putting their home on the market and your job is nearly done. The best way to create loyalty is to let the vendors know more about you – commonly referred to as content marketing.
As a face behind the name, you have a distinct advantage over some obscure web based avatar and hopefully some personality, character and integrity to tell the vendors your story.
More than happy to help any high street agency with content creation. Take part in our next Needle & Haystack podcast (on iTunes – request a link if you can’t find us; it’s early days)
To “unite in a really vocal pro-agent, consumer facing campaign” is OK, but if the vendors don’t know, like and trust you, it’s an uphill battle.
I’ve been recommended that book – It describes the followers who worship Apple. It’s a hard nut to crack for an Estate Agent though. We try the philosophy of helping and building a relationship. So we give our books, DVD, help guides and reports – typically 3-9 months before a vendor comes to market. During that time we nurture, so that they want to use us. I’m not being big headed – of course they always ask 2 other agents and the battle begins, but having forged a relationship, it puts us in a better position. It is very sophisticated market and flies in the face of all current agency marketing.
It is disappointing to see that this story has very quickly become ‘yesterday’s news’.
Maybe it is more of a ‘non-story’ than it appeared. Even those that the ‘article’ (free advertorial more like…) was weaved around have avoided posting their own comments – and the more prolific Onlinies have kept well away and not added support to the cause – which I read as condemnation of the story even from those that stand to benefit from it most.
With this degree of apathy from the Onlinies maybe there’s nowt to worry about after all…
Completelyagree Property Ear.
Correction – (line 4) ‘on line’, not ‘on live
So many of you guys are missing the point which I tried to make earlier in this marathon piece.
It doesn’t matter if we operate from a glitzy high street showroom or a garden shed – and we’re ALL on-live agents anyway – IT’S ALL ABOUT THE SERVICE WE OFFER!
If the agent operating from his shed personalises his service, presents his portfolio properly, negotiates well, progresses the sale and keeps his client happy from start to finish – he’s going to be far more likely to succeed than his lazy, sloppy, feeling sorry for himself, high street counterpart.
What is pretty obvious is that it’s highly unlikely a good ‘all round’ service can be provided for much less than a couple of grand.
What the ‘on line’ knockers need to wake up to is whether or not you will need your premises to do the job – THAT is the issue – chances are you (me too!) wbefore long won’t – so it could be a good idea to start planning how to cut your costs – Methinks an excellent ‘on line’ agency charging enough to do the job properly is the way ahead.
If I could, I’d get shot of my premises tomorrow and start up an on-line agency par excellent and charge a couple of grand a time – I know it would work. I know my local clientele would follow me but much as I’d love the challenge, I can’t – I still have 10 years of my lease to run!
So please, stop missing the point – there’s nothing wrong with on- line agency/agents – and I’ll say it til I’m blue in the face – IT’S ALL ABOUT THE SERVICE WE OFFER AND CHARGING ENOUGH TO PROVIDE IT!!
From the original ‘article’:
“Yopa’s chief executive, Dan Attia… says “The average price of a house is around £272,000, so two per cent is £5,000.””
COR! Bright lad, ain’t he?
Only £440 – or 8.8% – out… not bad at all for someone with a BA in Economics…
ANYWAY… this YOPs thing the article/advertorial was all chucked together for.
Of course it’s nice to see trainees are being brought into the industry but not so nice to see them getting chucked in at the deep end. Somewhere on the site it says that there is over 30 years of experienced Estate Agency behind this set-up – but considering it’s meant to be a nationwide offering frankly that’s woefully inadequate.
“Before you decide to sell your property with YOPA you can get a free no-obligation valuation from our experienced team.” Champion. I’ll ask the same question Mr Day keeps dodging like a f@rty smell in a spacesuit to these chancers, then:
Your website says that “someone” will visit my property to validate details, do photos, floorplans yada yada yada.
This “someone” as you describe them – please tell me, if the property you are listing is in RED ROW, Northumberland (NE61 postcode), how close to this postcode is this person based – and what experience do they have in selling property in that actual location? Who will be doing the “valuation” – and again what will they know about the location the property they are assessing lies within and how “local” to it will they be?
An earlier poster hit the nail on the head. Dont look at this as Online vs High Street, treat it as as a general increase in competition forcing you to rethink your status quo.
Competition should be embraced rather than knocked. Those that are great, and adapt and have the customer at the heart of what they do – and are able to make the customer realise this – will survive. Those that dont will fail.
Think about what you offer. When was the last time you implemented something innovative? Do you genuinely offer value for money? If so, how can you articulate that to joe public in a way that doesnt belittle other agents (including Online) but makes you stand out as a pioneer. Justify and advertise your fees in a way that makes you proud to charge them.
This isn’t a different fight to that which you should have been fighting since you set up business. The only difference now is that you have to be elequent in your messaging about higher costs translating to a better transaction, rather than your current message which will focus on historic high sales figures meaning you’re the best at selling.
This isn’t simply additional competition, it is competition that has pays little regard for the things that make equitable competition beneficial.
That just needs to be drawn out in your messaging. If you had a high street competitor that made outlandish claims, you would deal with it by counteracting their message with one of your own.
Calls to promote the benefits of High street agents are laudable but simply won’t work. There is not a chance in h-ll of EA’s nationally uniting to promote a media driven campaign to educate the public. Even if they did unite I doubt the media would be at all receptive – they would, if anything, report it as traditional EA’s bleating about losing market share to cheaper alternatives – and thus a big own goal would be scored.
I’ve said before, and I’ll keep saying it … the issue under threat isn’t per se about online v the high street or RM and Z v OTM … its about FEES.
What OEA advertising campaigns and the increased media reporting of OEA’s will do is highlight the massive difference in fees between online only and the high street. That message will, unfortunately for high street agents, meet a receptive and widening audience many of whom have paid traditional agents fees only because they knew of no alternative.
My opinion is that most sellers will still favour local traditional agents, but their willingness to pay local traditional agents fees will diminish significantly.
Whilst it pains me to admit it you are right about the fact that fees are the issue, they have long been the decider for sellers unpersuaded by the agent who quotes the highest. However what has yet to be established is at what level those fees should be. The online only agents believe that they can offer their services at hundreds not thousands but in reality none have yet shown a profit that I am aware of. Additionally none as of yet have had to contend with the staff needed to take on, service and deliver the results for anymore than the 3% of the market in most local areas.
The bottom line is that customers will pay provided they see value in what they are paying for. If high street agents can demonstrate that, whether it be in the service they offer or the price being local can achieve, then their future is as certain as its ever been.
Actually RealAgent … it doesn’t pain me to say I agree with every word of what you say.
How do you explain Foxtons stonking commission levels? 1.7% for selling is provides nearly 3x the profit on a sale as the 1.25% average commission. 17% for management! Staggering!
Customers perceive value: They believe Foxtons will achieve more in percentage terms for their property than other agents who may perhaps charge less.
Its to be admired thats for sure, whatever you think of them! = The Stella of the estate agency world “Reassuringly Expensive”
All this 2% malarkey is smoke and mirrors, people. Of the supposed “2% of the market” that Non-High Street Agents have struggled to corner, what percentage of that is also listed on the High Street? Ten percent, maybe? Twenty? Fifty, even?
Who knows.
What we DO know is that they have a share of the market – and they sell some of that share.
Keeping that share to a minimum is what is on the ‘To Do List’ for HSEAs. SO FAR, the results are good – 98+% of sellers keeping with what they know.
But the next three years are going to be telling, as we move potentially into a slightly different market.
My opinion is and always has been that the ‘war’ will be fought and won by PEOPLE, not technology.
Could we all ‘shut up shop’ and still operate? Probably, as the playing field would be level.
Could we all still operate if the internet suddenly, inexplicably ‘went down’?
Definitely… we have a shop window after all; with local people sitting there for people to drop in as they do every day.
Oh – but we don’t ALL have that… maybe some would struggle, wither and die away.
Awww diddums – then they shouldn’t mislead by offering like-for-like.
Could we all still operate if the internet suddenly, inexplicably ‘went down’? Actually Peebee if the internet went down most of you would struggle to value property however the COAR agents would find it almost impossible.
I think it important for you to understand that this is a digital battle, the anonymity of the internet allows anyone to claim anything whether it is true or not. I was quite surprised to discover all manner of questionable claims by an agent this weekend, claims that are transient and almost un-trackable
It would be nice if people could win this battle but you are up against folk who are powerfully connected and have sunk one heck of a pile of cash into making a quick buck. They aren’t playing fair and are desperate for a public fracas. They need the exposure!
That 2% is probably more down to brand awareness but as we have seen more are getting crowd funding and better telly ads which without would keep them at 2%. Agents need to wake up that there is a move on but as someone said …. wait till the investors realise they have been duped … another dotcom short lived boom?
Its the old saying, “pay peanuts and get monkeys”. With the public demanding more transparency, better service and greater accountability, the online model with its lack of the personal touch, will be a guaranteed to make the house moving process more stressful than it already is. The consumer needs to understand that there is no shortcut or cheap option if they desire the best price for their most expensive asset.
The reports of our death are greatly exaggerated. Archaic? I think agents are innovative and early adopters of new technology and ideas. It was only a few years ago the death knell was being sounded for supermarkets. Now there are more than ever because the out of town superstores are being replaced this smaller, local outlets. The only part of M & S that is booming is ‘on-line’. Search your local agents on-line and rarely does an on-line agent feature in the results. Ask your customers if they shop for groceries on-line and most will agree that they do. But ask if that includes their Sunday joint and you get a resounding ‘No way’ as some things require personal interaction.
Agency isn’t a retail business with fixed products and identical specifications where the determining factor is price. Frankly, a fraction of a percentage fee isn’t a determining factor with such huge sums of money at stake. Sale price is key. Retail goods are delivered to your door, but even in this cyber world, customers still need to visit a property. The other key factor to note it that a buyer or tenant doesn’t give a flying fig how much the landlord or vendor is paying an agent so a key element of our business is not price dependent. We are ‘agents’ not retailers. People want a service – perhaps being collected from the station, accompanied on viewing, shown where the local amenities are etc.
Most leading agents are already doing what so called hybrid agents do and their business are growing. Acquisitions by companies are rife and record business levels are being reported. Investors remain keen to support flotations and it is only the rise in crowd funding which appears to distort perceived ‘valuations’ which would never make it past Dragons Den. How long before these investors start to ask questions?
All that said, we owe a debt of gratitude to the on line businesses as it has made us raise our game – but just don’t call us archaic. Just attend an industry awards event and see what agents big and small are achieving through innovation and focus on consumer service.
Long live the High Street.
Your post reminded me of this;
One major benefit of a HPI is that more investors tend to follow their lead. We’ve all seen Dragons’ Den when one Dragon gets behind the product, the others follow because they don’t want to miss out. “They’re like sheep,” “High-profile investors are more frightened of losing out on a deal than losing money”
Err correct me if I’m wrong but don’t we (High Street estate agents) advertise on line already? The hurdle to overcome is the pounds and pence figure being pushed by the on-liners for less service to Mr & Mrs Joe Public. That is all they offer and if you loose instructions, maybe it is down to communication skills? In the main I rarely see High Street agents selling “the service” and why some of the public gulp at the fees being charged. More often than not they just don’t understand the difference.
NO NO NO!!
‘If someone is talking about you, its because you’re worth talking about’. This is exactly the reason why we should NOT highlight what an ‘Online only agent’ does or does not do. It will only encourage the public to HATE estate agents even more than they already do and push them further towards the arms of the Onliners, miss-led by the fact that they (online agents) offer more than what we offer, and will save the customer ££££££’s. RUBBISH! I can safely say with complete confidence and based on FACT and personal experience with online agents (so far) that the customer would have been far worse off financially had they have gone with an online only agent.
I have put my money where my mouth is with some ‘local’ online estate agents, charging £499 upon completion (but with a £70 start up cost) who almost won an instruction from a client of ours who we have acted for twice before and who will praise our service until the cows come home. BUT they almost got him. They offered to sell his bungalow for £275k for the above fee. I agreed to match their fee, BUT if we achieve a sale price higher than £280K we will charge 1%. WE SOLD IT FOR £290K. Our fee was £2401 more expensive but the client was £12599 better off.
The reason why we achieved more is simple, we knew the value was more than £275k because we are local and have a far superior knowledge on local prices, the buyer saw our superb ad on RM with proffessionllay editied photos, BUT HOWEVER the other 6 viewings we got on the property were NOT internet leads but leads generated from the ‘old fashion high street estate agency method of actually picking up a phone and speaking to a human being and arranging a veiwing’, some of whom came to our HIGH STREET OFFICE to register their details.
NOW although these people DIDNT purchase the house, but their offers of £275k, £280k, and £287k provided strong competition and the main reason why the original (internet) applicant stretched to £290k.
I feel that really speaks for itself.
I am all for the High St agents uniting in one voice to show the public that we are not all sharks in suits in it for our own agenda, but genuine, professional and ethical businesses who simply look to deliver fantastic results for the paying customers who use and justify our fees.
WE DO NOT TALK ENOUGH ABOUT WHAT WE DO!
We have all see those sepia photos Francis Frith took of ‘High Streets’ in our towns and villages. Well times have changed and so too has the world. The road that runs through the epicentre of towns and villages, commonly referred to as the ‘High Street’ is no longer the centre of commerce. In one nearby village several former businesses premises have been converted to residential dwellings to help meet our changing housing needs. The growth of the internet and out of town malls/supermarkets is changing how we do business and the pace of change is increasing. Those who embrace the change will prosper and those that cling on to the status quo will dwindle. Mary Portas trying to be King Canute for the High Street is not going to halt the change.
We have to accept that the High Street is no longer the centre of commerce and decide how we can adapt or influence the change.
It is very hard to emulate local property market intelligence with an online offering and the personal service a local ‘boots on the ground’ business offers cannot be created online so there will always be a market for these elements in the same way there will always be demand for newspapers despite the rise of the internet. However staring into my crystal ball I can see the quill and parchment glass and chrome £6000 coffee machine high street office becoming a scarcer animal and there being a lot less agents on ‘high streets’ in 5 years time.
With most agents now online the High Street Vs online argument is pathetic and the time and effort expended on this should instead be directed towards identifying what it is that Mr & Mrs House Seller/Buyer 2015 really value and what can agents do to improve how they deliver that value. Hint: asking a customer what it is they value may not always give you the result you need – observe behaviour.
Lazy advertorial for a mate ???? whoops I must learn to be media -friendly!
We wont charge you anything upfront….but you will get into debt if we can’t sell it..!
Isn’t that the Purplebricks approach?
NICE IndAgent, I will start saving my pennies
I admire the sentiment involved but I tend to agree with Rivero, to me nothing good comes from highlighting the online only agents, in fact it gives them credibility. If I felt that my business could be served equally well reducing staffing, pulling out of local locations and centralising it, then I would. However it isn’t. I do better dominating my local market place and with knowledge comes control . Online only anythings cannot perform in my local market anywhere near the level of authority I can command and never will because their business model is about Nationwide coverage or their costs don’t work. We had the same thing a few years ago with the corporate agents, but look at the high street now, with a few exceptions the public voted and in most towns the top 3 agents are all independent local firms. Big isn’t always better and when it comes to a “service” industry, it never is. That doesn’t mean the internet doesn’t have its place, of course it does, I love shopping on Amazon, but a kindle is a kindle, I don’t need a service from Amazon I just need the product. Our business is completely different.
Finally and the crucial point for me is I KNOW that selling a house from distance makes the process, price you get, and options if things do not go to plan, a much bigger lottery.
I am sure we all have had someone we know, out of our area, ask us to sell a house, well I did this recently. Certainly through the portals I worked out a price, the local agent I recommended my friend also used suggested £10K more so we went with that. To be fair I got viewings and even an offer, £5k under the price; not bad; The local agent got 4 offers over asking, my friend ended up selling having made a further £8K.
Selling houses is better local and in the end, you don’t need the spin when the results are so pronounced.
As anyone who’s followed the online debate recently here will know I’ve been an occasional contributor and have been saying for some time that the rise of online sales and lettings is both a warning and a huge wake up call for our business. When the likes of Countrywide with 1000+ offices start planning an online option (tittle tattle in the business also suggests that another major player is also looking at online too) then its time to stand up and fight.
Sadly I’m coming to the conclusion that as other posters have mentioned the public want a cheap solution not a quality one. I’ve delivered a quality proposition all my life but see more and more potential clients “giving an online competitor a go” despite being made aware of the pitfalls.
We (and I mean every consumer on the planet at this point) have brought this upon ourselves in our quest for hassle free shopping and it’s now reached beyond CD’s and books to professional services.
We all have the ability to change this by dumping the PC and shopping on the High Street but sadly we wont – why would you pay a fortune to park and trudge up the street peering in agents windows when you can shop online sat in your armchair with a G and T
A professional trade body for independent High Street agents is a great idea and and step in the right direction. Online is the way forward ultimately but by pooling resources and hiring the best on line marketers in the business there may be a solution.
I’m approaching retirement age and am so proud of having had a life long and enjoyable career in this business that I love but really do worry that without a radical change in direction, as the Telegraph says, the writing may be on the all.
Time to step up to the plate ladies and gents.
Special Agent 61, Shame you are approaching retirment, you seem to have a better grasp of the situation then most.
Burying our heads in the sand will do nothing, it really is time to fight, I just wish one body, mutual or scheme would come out and be vocal about it and start the ball rolling. We could even form an Property Industry Eye group and take the fight to the onliners. I am sure the team at eye must have some VERY good connections in national press and television.
We need voices in mainstream media daily, explaining the difference in offerings at that saving a couple of grand on your fee means nothing if a high street agent can get you an extra 10k plus!
A perfect example of high street strength and will to work for our client, I found a home for my daughter, unfortunately it was only on with an on line agent and £25000 over priced but we viewed after waiting 4 days for the onliner to book it, my daughter whilst happy wasn’t 100% certain however we offered all but the £25000 (300000) we have nothing to sell,a 60% deposit and will wait for the seller to find (what a buyer) the agent reported back the refusal of our offer and we haven’t heard anything back yet (20 days ago) and I would have offered another 5-£10,000 if my daughter was 100% but the agent hasn’t rung to negotiate with us and we whilst surprised aren’t overly concerned at not getting it although the onliner doesn’t know this (Mr Quirk) My point is, any professional high street agent would be on the phone trying to close a deal for themselves as much as their client because they are hungry and haven’t been paid whilst the onliner has been paid and I’m sorry Quirky but you lot cant be bothered because all it will do is cost you money.The client lost out because he went with an onliner but he would be sold now with an high street agent, NO DOUBT’s THERE.
Sorry – but that view is a bit too simplistic. The crux of the issue is that so many good, traditional, high street estate agents feel that every high street agent is the same. WRONG. For every good agent that will work a deal, try and improve offers and progress sales there are plenty that do nothing of the type.
I’ve read your example with interest, and I’ll raise you one from my recent purchase.
We were good buyers, significant deposit in place, AIP in hand, coming out of rental, looking to move swiftly. I emailed eight traditional high street agents about 10 different properties (7 x 1 property, 1 x 3 properties). Six out of eight responded. So those two ‘hard working agents that will do the best for you etc.’ weren’t doing the best for those two vendors and missed the opportunity to take out good buyers. I called a fortnight afterwards and both properties were still available – no surprise really if the agents are ignoring viewing requests! Of the rest;
One agent called the morning of the viewing to say a deal had been agreed that morning and cancelled the viewing. Good practice would have been to get me in to try and drive a higher price, surely?
A national, corporate agent took us to see three properties that were all no good – but she was persistent and a good sales person.
One was late and didn’t know how to get into the property without ringing the office.
Two were forgettable – perfectly pleasant but hardly inspiring when thinking about who I’d use to sell our purchase in the future.
The agent we bought through…we met for the first time on completion day. We viewed the property three times and each one was unaccompanied, because they were ‘so busy’. I negotiated the offer with the vendor and got myself what I consider a steal – frankly I’d have gone up at least another 8-12% on my offer if pushed but the vendor wasn’t an estate agent and was just a bit soft in all honesty – which was good for me and my purchase price.
On completion day I strolled into his office, asked for the keys and a young lad swaggered up and said “I best ask for ID as we’ve never met you before”. I showed him a bank card in my GIRLFRIENDS name to see if he’d notice – he didn’t, and swiftly planted the keys in my palm.
When it comes to selling it is hardly a ringing endorsement for high street agents. The only one I’d even consider instructing would be the national who showed us the three. I know not all agents are bad, but don’t fall into the trap of thinking all high street agents are good for the industry. Online agents wouldn’t exist if service levels from high street agents was at a decent level.
You ALMOST had me there – after a false start (second sentence is way off mark…) I was almost at the point of nodding – but then the cracks in the masonry of your ‘experience’ started to show through the hastily-applied paintwork and now for WAAAY too many reasons to go through I will just say that I challenge your story in its’ entirety.
Good try, though… I’m sure that some will believe and walk straight into what I believe to be pure unadulterated MDT – I’ll just step around it, thanks.
There will always be a small piece of the market for online only faceless set-ups. Mostly made up of the type of stock not wanted by the majority of agents. But lets be honest, not many people would be willing to hand over the single biggest investment in their life to some invisible internet only set-up. And as for a newspaper offering opinions on other industries when their own went down the toilet a decade ago thats comical. The only folk banging the drum about online only clearly have an interest in the idea, more than likely financial. Out of the dozens of unregulated online only agents, one or two will undoubtedly obtain some branding recognition – The next and natural progression would then be to open a High Street premises? Traditional High Street agents can be complacent though, they now need to stand up and shout from the roof top as to why their service level is unrivalled and also ONLINE.
I have to say, in partial agreement with Tristramboris, that the industry should think carefully before wading in to a very public brawl. Just look at the Zoopla versus OTM bickering…no-one comes out of it looking good. I suspect the industry keeping a dignified silence, whilst really looking hard at their own practices, service levels etc, looking to improve wherever they can might be a wiser move. I have serious concerns about how the public would view a broadcast campaign of ‘look how good we are and what great value we offer’…it could easily be interpreted as ‘thou dost protest too much’. I love our industry, but truth be told, many agents needed this wake up call. There are as many complacent and cynical traditional agents as there are hard working agents with integrity. We are all individually responsible for the way we are viewed by the public and we are all, in large part, in control of these perceptions. It is up to us all to adapt if need be, or certainly exercise ongoing reviews of how we conduct business. I believe a strategy of ‘raising the bar’ might be more prudent than a defensive campaign which is likely to be taken as such by the wider public.
“And the article itself confidently starts: “Everyone loves to hate estate agents.”
I thought all these on line agents were “estate agents.” Ladies and gentlemen of the “traditional agent” mould, a word or two of advice.
Don’t be complacent about online, despite the fact they will never succeed as they all believe they will.
Don’t stay too traditional, move with the times
Make sure your level of service is at its highest possible level
Don’t bend to meet the fee demands of clients threatening to go the “on line” agent route
Be proud of who you are what you offer.
Don’t rubbish the on-liners, just show the customers how you are better.
A tiny (but may grow) percentage of the public are being seduced by “how cheap” they think they can sell their homes for . But they will soon realise that cheap is bad news in the arena of moving home. They need experts with energy, knowledge and an interest in helping them get what they need (YES WE DO CHARGE A FEE FOR OUR EXPERTISE ). In the end the supposed savings they might make on line, will be washed away with a tsunami of hassle, delays and failure. And if they find a buyer, there will surely be a question mark about the price agreed.
If you are expert at what you do, modern energetic and alive, you will be in business for many year to come.
Fighting fire with fire will only make the crowdfunded spend more on advertising. Because the online work on a national level they advertise in national press where the lowly one office independent would dream of. Agents Mutual are the closest thing to a chain of agencies that could market together but its all about the portal. Relocation Agent Network, Team, Countrywide, LSL etc should be doing more for some larger scale advertising for the benefit of their groups rather than in their own towns.
and I’ll leave the Slogan Floor to others now…
Selling Your Home?
Don’t limit yourself to an Online Only Agent
Choose a Real Local Estate Agent
We’re Local & Online!
or,
Selling Your Home?
Online Only Agent?
or…. Your Real Local Agent Agent?
Thankfully Your Local Estate Agent is Both!
Oops….. you knew there wouldbe a typo!
Selling Your Home?
Choose a Traditional High Street Estate agent
You’ll be delighted to know that we do so much more than just list your property online!
My guesstimate is that 50% of high street agents will be defunct in 5 years time. This is a wonderful opportunity for high street agents. If the bog standard agent disappears that has to be a good thing for both the industry and the public. The agents who survive will be those who provide a personal service, those who specialise in specific types of property, those who are good negotiators and use an open office for face to face communication, those who conduct auctions and understand how to use different methods of sale, and those who are qualified by examination and use that experience to differentiate themselves from the online mass. Most of us reading Eye fall into one or more of these categories and we should welcome with open arms the revolution which is going on now.
Well done Eye!…. we do need a kick in the @ss!
Selling Your Home?
Choose a Traditional High Street Estate agent
You’ll be delighted to know that we much more than just list your property online!
or,
Who would your trust…. your Doctor or a Robot Doctor?
Who would you trust…. a Policeman or a Robot Policeman?
Who should your trust when selling your Home?
The Estate Agent or the Robot Estate Agent?
The difference…. Human Beings!
or,
Selling Your Home?
Trust your Local Estate Agent
or,
Selling Your Home?
Would you trust the Internet only?
We certainly wouldn’t.
Talk to your Local Estate Agent.
Find out why some things are so much better than the Internet!
or,
If you want a Real Estate Agent to Sell Your Home
Choose a Local Estate Agent
or,
Selling Your Home?
Virtual or Real Estate Agent?
Thankfully Your Local Estate Agent is both!
Call your Local Estate Agent now!
or,
Online Estate Agent or High Street Estate Agent?
Thankfully Your Local Estate Agent is Both
or,
Don’t sell your home with one arm tied behind your back.
Choose a Real Estate Agent who is both Local & Online!
The only Small Print?….the above slogans are created by me, GPL, and available with my permission for Local High Street Estate Agents to use. If you’re NOT a Local High Street Estate Agent thrn you don’t have my permission to use any of them.
Best not to centre the argument on High Street vs Online – more on quality of service and ability to sell vs useless chapskates. Doesn’t matter if the agent operates from a plush high street office or his/her garden shed, if he/she keeps the client happy and charges enough to do the job well and make an adequate profit, success will ensue.
I speak as a High Street operator and would obviously choose to continue to fund my premises but if times are changing, I must change too. One thing that will not change, wherever I operate from, is my determination to keep my clients happy, from start to finish and that can’t be done for a few hundred quid.
It’s not the ‘on liners’ who have got it wrong – it’s the cheapskates.
Correction – cheapskates, not chapskates!
I’m not sure whether the ‘problem’ here lies with the fact that the man has many characters; or that no-one wants to be given any “credit” for being first or most active in shouting out about the issue – or simply that everyone has a quick moan and then buries their heads back in the… let’s call it ‘sand’ for politeness – but I have been reading posts for almost half a decade from Mr Robert May and his ‘friends and associates’ predicting this very situation being on the horizon.
I’m predicting that he’s not one for saying “told you so” – as he has every right to be doing today – and just continues his thankless and so far unsupported challenge to provide the solution for the sake of the industry.
PeeBee,
I think everybody (with any sense) knows online only agents are an issue and have been for sometime and they will only get stronger.
And i think the agents that say they have just 2% market share, look how they present this its awful do have their heads in sand.
They problem is the general public are price driven, deny it if you will you are only cheating yourselves.
The onliners have been very clever as they con the public into thinking online only and high st are like for like .
The public just see instructing an onliner as saving money. The truth is they lose money for a varity of reasons, correct price, proactive staff, more buyers, sales progression etc.
What we as an industry need is a voice to educate the public and we need to be united in this.
The one thing onliners have united on is the fact that they all say they are cheaper than us, if you hear it enough you will believe it!
We need a body or spokes person we can all get behind and fight as a unit because they only may have 2% market share now but as soon as they get to 10% i cant see high street making the difference back unfortuanly
“We need a body or spokes person we can all get behind and fight as a unit because they only may have 2% market share now but as soon as they get to 10% i cant see high street making the difference back unfortunately”
Would you join such “spokes person” “pay for said person” or are you looking for the freebie to champion your industry.
Is AM not the last opportunity and OTM a potentially brilliant shop window to display our message? and I mean Last chance!
Sorry Ric see above.
What i did not address on the above was, no i dont want a freebie.
My dear old dad told me “Son there are two types of people in the world, talkers and do’ers” – I see a lot of talking not too much doing! i will get behind whoever does what they say and happy to pay for it.
You see the fence sitters are the talkers, the members the doers and AM the giving us the platform for reaching out.
I just cannot see how AM can not be seen as the perfect place to join a collective of doers…… and this is back to strength in numbers bit, you need to gather your troops before you attack. I am sure the RAF would have done this! and I am sure your dad (hope you don’t mind me using him in this) would have joined AM.
You just sound like someone passionate about your industry and this is what AM needs more of…… get you on board and others will follow I am sure.
I am happy to admit at the moment i am a talker, i am waiting to back a true contender 🙂
I understand that AM may want to add to their numbers for an attack on RM but i do not see why they are waiting to attack onliners, 5000 plus members can make a lot of noise, AM are yer to harness that, maybe if they did some sitters will join the battle.
why focus for it to attack RM? it does not allow OOEA on, so it is in the perfect place to also champion HSEA too and I am sure they would be capable of killing 2 birds with 1 stone in one very natural message. OTM is -v- RM and AM is 4 HSEA.
The doers are doing!
Some Robert but few actually having a vocal voice to the public and making a real difference.
You can have the best intentions, website, portal, membership body etc.
But if the public do not know about it it means nothing.
Online only agents are VERY good at their united message “We are just the same as high street agents, just cheaper!”
They have stories every single day, they even have the national press on their side. Why has a body not taken time to speak to the telegraph, channel four or whoever else and do a hatchet job on onliners like they are doing to us?
Thats whats needed! – portals, memberships, sortals all help but what we really need is a voice!
Without getting all “Hollywood” on this what we need is somebody who will take the fight to the streets and get invloved in mud slinging and calling these people out for who they are and what they do or dont do.
Just today i have seen an advert for an onliner “Get on major portals for less” – The problem is the majority of the public see us as listers and Z OTM RM are what they need and we are just a route to it so why pay more? – You and i know thats not the case but we need a powerful voice telling the public the same way onliners are telling the public all the agents do is list a property why pay more?
Oh how I wish you would get in touch!
OK High Street, if you really want a campaign built around fighting back, start by reflecting on the last 20 years and asking yourself this simple question: “Why are we loosing it ?”
The answers will generally fit under the broad heading that most consumers view is your behaviour is questionable and you offer poor value for money. Nothing whatsoever to do with the internet.
The next soul searching question: “As an industry, do we want to change (and boy do I mean change) to improve our perceived consumer behaviour?” The answer is NO, No you don’t. You just want the good old days back . You behave endemically, you don’t change and as a result outsiders have come in and are changing it for you !
Many business communities have embraced change in the last 20 and kept their traditional identity. The common theme is often they have been united by a genuine shared (dare I say it ‘regulated) vision to improve. A rallying call now is too late. You are now on the back foot and have no common voice, no genuine desire of understanding of how to improve.
What’s coming up behind you is not very good either but they use language customers want to hear and united. Never forget the power of the underdog.
I had this conversation with insurance brokers back in 2000 and apart from one, who survived by racially changing strategy they didn’t listen either …. Remember the good old days of the High Street Insurance Broker ?
Che – when you start comparing Insurance Brokerage with Estate Agency the battle is already lost in the minds of those doing the comparison I’m afraid.
Hmmm – 2 ‘Dislikes’ and counting!
C’mon – humour me – WHY do you dislike this?
Don’t ‘Dislike’ – ‘Discuss’ and ‘Debate’.
Yes Debate ! Here goes :
The parallels between the now defunct High Street insurance business and the self branded ‘High Street estate agency business are :
It’s was proved that the branch network could close yet you can still trade from cheaper location and offer a good service.
Low cost lead generation become the norm thanks to Meerkats & singing welsh men so, forget OTM and have a look at the rise of the estate agency comparison site… that your not using, because you don’t want people to know what you charge.
erm… what else ? Oh yeah. Old school ‘this is outrageous, these new guys are not professional’ attitude had to step aside when the need to become competitive and transparent became a customer USP.
In summary. You wont compete on price but you do need to reduce you fees.
You need to genuinely improve your image so start by ‘growing a pair’ and boot out the scoundrels. Then engage is some serious intelligent customer research to find out what vendors really really want.
Forget the online/high street/ them/us/ pointless debate and instead have a ‘estate agency for the 21st century debate that involves everyone.
che – the “now defunct High Street insurance business” you refer to. Could you just confirm that Swintons 350+ offices are included in your definition of “defunct”?
Offering a cuddly toy with every home sale/purchase won’t make the Onlines the Kings of ANY castles – ESPECIALLY NOT if they were produced in the image of the two on the telly, I add quickly…
Also the thousands of other outlets belonging to large/medium/small insurance brokers that are trading on High Streets and Town/City centres across the UK – they also come under your “defunct” umbrella?
Peebee, It is Swinton to which I refer in my comment ‘I had this conversation with insurance brokers back in 2000 and apart from one, who survived by racially changing strategy’
Thousands used to be ten’s of thousands…..
…and “thousands” means “defunct” was the wrong word to use.
If I can just interject and ask how you think the following can be achieved?; “You need to genuinely improve your image so start by ‘growing a pair’ and boot out the scoundrels.”
An excellent question Paul and the answer would take time and be followed by a reasonable but hefty consultancy invoice.
http://www.cantellandco.com/News/2085/Selecting-an-estate-agent.aspx
If YOPA present all their properties like this, then I’m not worried, are you? http://www.rightmove.co.uk/property-for-sale/property-52888658.html
The city or should I say ,Woodford and co .. are itching to float their investment Purple P…ks . Everyone knows, tech stocks are headed way due south for 2016 wrong time and place to have recently floated
Factor in Brexit fall out which is going to happen ,that’s around 6 / 8 months to sell your shares. sooner rather than later
Bio rather than just tech .
does not matter who you appoint , when you rub an industry up the wrong way
,your just paper money , everyone knows your share holder, will demand a larger dividend doomed .
should have sold to Netflix 🙂 then you would, not have had ,to go through it all , judging from past history , we know ,what to expect ,Master Chesterman with an unclassified Bachelors degree.
how I love the high street estate agent
then you have a have country wide CEO ,who wants to go online, hello your already a website ?
then you have two portals who are fighting for subscription trade from onliners ok it’s only 2%, but for a portal thatZz lost almost 35 % listing stock, it is important .
All makes sense except Woodford has set up Patient Capital since he made his investment and it will almost certainly underwrite the float. The principle of patient capital is just that… To be patient. I doubt they’re very worried about short term shocks in the context of a long term buy and hold. In fact I should imagine they’d be delighted if such shocks knocked a few more high Streeters…
Traditional estate agency?
There’s no united front here – you’re all too too busy beating each other out of a decent living to be taken seriously.
Attia blames agents for overpricing when it is often the vendor who is’optimistic’. The most shocking overpricing I’ve seen was with an on line agent, common because without local knowledge the can’t be very discerning and eager to list anything to get their tiny up front fee.
A campaign of the nature will never work and in fact will play into the hands of the online agent’s existing PR message that they are the consumer champions and traditional are not. This could easily end up as a spectacular own goal on a par with OtM (assuming it could ever get off the ground)
The issue with any call to action is being able to come together as one. All have varying opinions on the NAEA, The Guild, OTM to name just three so what we lack as an industry is a coherent voice.
Some agents get on really well with their high street colleagues but some don’t (as illustrated by the number of successful attempts of OTM agents getting together being far outweighed by those that wouldn’t consider getting in room with one of their competitors) This is a fact, as is the classic agent knocking between competitors and all just adds to the reasons why, in some circles, we are viewed with such disdain.
This said, many of us passionately believe in what it is we do and do it well. Traditional and internet isn’t the only choice clients will make, service will remain huge part of it but with our eyes and ears being bombarded with information and adverts that, essentially, advise the consumer that we that we offer poor value for money, provide zero in the way of service and that a simple DIY approach to the process is the way forward, then YES, we need to do something.
Are Peter Knight or any of those mentioned in the eye article the answer? No idea really but what we do need to do is polarise opinion, across the industry, with a message that every single estate agency business can subscribe to. From corporate to independent, we mustn’t discriminate as whilst all have their own business models and plans, all must also see the value in having one voice when it comes down to standing up for what it is we actually do. I’ll be the first to sign u to that.
The only way traditional agents will maintain market share is by focusing on delivering excellent customer service. Amaze and delight the customer and anyone can survive the inevitable rise in market share for online agents. Spend your time waffling and complaining on Internet forums and joining a crusade, on the other hand….. Has anyone noticed how marginalised the anti-austerity protesters have become?
A game changing moment!!….well done EYE.
I think any campaign should be based on showing the public precisely what a high street agent does to justify their fees. For far too long the consumer have been told that selling your property is easy, but what is it that makes us different? Why do we charge a higher fee and Online agents can (in most cases) charge far less.
I also agree with Chris Wood that boba fife figures and statistics need to be at the forefront and the recent ASA ruling will mean far more transparency from the online brigade.
Yep, lets all get together and form a mutual type thingy for Agents, we could call it “Mutual Agents” or something…. Nah, it will never happen, there will always be the ones who will join only when the war is won…. I mean I have no proof this would be the case, but I am sure only the brave would join.
If your agent is not OnTheHighStreet then your not OnTheMarket – oh imagine, we could even set up an website which champions High Steet Agency…. Not sure “Mutual Agents” has a ring to it though…… any ideas?
Morning Ric, how about mutualagentsonthehighstreet??
Id sign up tomorrow!!
I would have asked you first! closely followed by the usual who kind of get what having such an idea place could do for us! Instead selling out to the websites who power the papers who want to end us seems more sensible.
I’ve just thought; not only could our website champion High Street Agents, it could showcase only our properties which are on the market – oh no but wait the reality has hit me…….. a name, a brand, an agreement; so much would be required, I mean it is tough to come up with a brand from scratch and get in a serious position to use it to our advantage in more ways than one…. Perhaps I will just fight my own battles at local level…. never mind.
See what your saying Ric but AM / OTM seems to be what it wants when it wants.
Okay OTM does not take onliners which is to be applauded but what else have they done? I see the website promoted as a portal but I am yet to see any press about why choose a high street agent over an online only agent? In regards to the general public. It’s all well and good saying AM do this but they need to do it!
Hi Smile.
Think Agents Mutual first and OnTheMarket as an extra little benefit! in the background assisting you quietly whilst your team make noises in your village.
I think this is part problem, its the OTM show now and not the AM show….. why did we buy into it? Not because of a new website, I would have gone on Z for exposure!
“Agents Mutual” is the Strength “OnTheMarket” is the public face….. JOIN and AM can say we have recruited another TOP Agent. Oh no, I sound a bit cult there.
I think that is the right way to look at it Ric, but i go back to what have AM done? They have advertised the portal i am yet to see them educate / sell to the public the difference between online only and high street, or is this phase 2/3/4 of the plan that keeps getting added to?
oh smile, you see you say “you see what I am saying” but you clearly (and I am not being rude) do not understand what I am saying or perhaps you do not want to admit people like you are the reason High Street Agency will never have the full support of “our own”.
They (AM) have managed to get 1,000’s of agents to show their spirit and put their money where their mouths are in terms of “coming together” Not I/we would….. I/we have!!!!
They may well achieve no more now and it will be the “I will join when the war is over” agents who will be to blame, the “I will never join” agents cannot be blamed as much, but so many fence sitters are now restricting AM from achieving more and more.
You know it is “strength in numbers” so to keep waffling about “what have they done” well this story goes to show… agents would like to fight together but on the whole too many are simply to scared to make commitment.
To flip this smile….. What can they do? what will make you join AM? (When the war is won?) Phase 2, 3, 4 will happen, but stage 1 requires more agents who “get it”.
AM has for me so far enabled me to negotiate a lower rate with RM and on my terms. So part of the job done for sure.
Ric i do get but without getting drawn into the usual debate lets move it on!
Yes you have a reduction in RM but this thread is about sticking it to the onliners, that has not helped?
You say what can they do, well i see RAF
Sorry fat fingers!
I see RAF logos in offices and some have taken to putting on boards and papers.
How about instead of just pushing the portal there is some dialogue over why use a high street agent, all agents AM or not can get behind this.
Instead of just ignoring onliners fight them. i have said before if you are on your pitch educate the public why online only is not good, too many agents wait until they are asked and then fight against it.
If you look at the reply further down i have mentioned to PeeBee the one thing onliners have done is come together and actively attack us, we as an industry need to do the same, i did not say it had to be AM you said they are already doing this but i see no evidence. It might not be there battle, they might not want it, but we as an industry need to do something, i think its great eye has raised this as we are talking but we need to have a voice to the public. I would say the NAEA would be best – even though i am not a member and at this moment do not believe in them, they have a new preident and if he expelled online agents and was in the press promting high street agents and the benefits – wow i would join that!
sorry bit late in the day maybe but where have the online only agents “come together”? Ive not seen a eMoov/EP/Tep/PB combined advert where they all say we collectively do more. They simply have managed to get headlines because one of the most hated industries in the UK are an easy target in an easy market!
RAF – well we would all support the RAF in a war no?
All I am saying is how can we get agents to unite, well AM is a pretty good starting block.
As for Online Only Agents, to be fair as I have said before, they do not actually worry me as 99% of the time get to meet Face2Face with sellers and have a chance at “defending the High Street” and 99% of that time win. If they want cheap, little I will do or say will stop them other than a fee match.
it will be a one word per line debate shortly smile! LOL. perhaps we agree in many ways but not on the solution.
I agree with you AM is a good starting point! same as i am interested in joining should they challenge RM – I could be interested in joining if they do get a real campaign behind onliners. It was you that said they are a spokes person against them all i am is asking how and what they are going to do other than not accept them.
– Please dont fall into the trap ignoring the threat of online only, it may not be an issue now but is a real threat to our industry.
@ric – you keep talking about getting agents to unite…..it smacks of desperation. Almost then you don’t feel along and feel like you have to keep making your business better.
Just because miners got together didn’t make digging out coal at unviable prices a good idea.
but maybe you see this instead:
https://www.medigo.com/
Already been flagged up a while ago, harry hood.
I drew our local Rep’s attention to another a week ago.
I have been saying fir sometime the biggest threat to estate agency is online agents they are forcing us to become listers. I am happy to get behind any real campaign but feel the NAEA and such do not have the knowledge or will for the fight.
Eye may well be up for promoting traditional high street offering but must first look at the air they are giving to the onliners. Any publicity is good publicity ….
Agreed. Eye gives a disproportionate amount of coverage to onliners. Rather than becoming a site for a crusade against them, surely providing them less oxygen in keeping with their market share will prevent the site becoming a single issue bandwagon
For me, the issue is not the business model, it is often the outlandish and dodgy claims some of the ‘disrupters’ make and, the poor journalism in the mainstream press that prints it seemingly unchecked for factual correctness and without context or balance.
The NAEA, RICS and ARLA etc are also bound, quite correctly, to stand up for all bonofide estate agents, no matter their chosen business model, as long as the agents concerned act within the rules of those associations. However, I fully agree that a more balanced and informed counter narrative needs to be professionally and consistently broadcast to the public and many of the names mentioned would be excellent choices for that job.
Whilst I have recently successfully challenged two of these claims from one online agent with the ASA that appeared on these pages (link below), I believe that the main battlefield is that of the alleged savings made by customers of online agents. A saving is only a saving of the customer is better off at the end of the transaction and, from the data I have seen in my area and with the recent ASA case these claims are, at best, misleading.
The battleground where this debate will be fought and won is on hard data not lofty , un-proven claims.
Did the agent add real value for their service?
Did the agent achieve a better sale price? (on a like for like basis – average asking prices v average selling prices can be highly misleading for sound statistical reasons)
Did the agent achieve a quicker sale? (speed not always the prime motivator, for some customers though, it has to be said)
Do the agents figures show a higher listing to exchange ratio than their competitors? (how much more likely is the customer to achieve a sale with agent ‘a’ versus agent ‘b’?)
Link to ASA ruling on eMoov misleading advertising: http://www.propertyindustryeye.com/advertising-watchdog-upholds-two-complaints-against-online-agent-emoov/
lets not forget charity shops boutique shops retail shops clothes small cafes bars resturants what do they all have in common THE SOCIAL ELEMENT !
estate agency is a social skill a very fine art , which takes years to master and improves with age.
we are all online , all of us the social skill community high street locals knowing their area
ok rant over enough typing more talking, oh Alison , IT’s Ironic ,you saying your an active CEO getting out of office, away from spread sheets as you prefer getting out and about, that is what estate agency is always been about and not even Pi labs…. will help you with your accelerator program
Speechless!!!
Any other day I would have said “There’s a first!”.
Today, Robert – all I want or need to say on the subject is about 20 posts down from this one. The number of ‘Dislikes’ to it will tell how many realise and accept the truth more than a million ‘Likes’…
I agree , come on good folk,
Internet already existed 14 yrs ago , Sarah B high street estate agents were the first and still the best , early adapters of tech.
Hybrid already exists High Street + Internet