Here is today’s ethical question for Eye readers.
Yesterday, an agent told us that he went to value a house. The seller mentioned that they would be taking an early decision to market, so the agent took all the internal and external photographs to save time later.
“We suggested that it might be useful for the vendor to check the images whilst we were at the house and agreed to download them on to their laptop. The vendor was happy with the images,” the agent told us.
Indeed, so happy that the vendor gave all the photographs to the rival agent who won the instruction.
And those very same photographs are now in all the marketing, including the Rightmove listing.
We know who the rival agent is, and we know what the property is.
And, yes, the vendors do seem to be in a bit of a hurry to sell as the property was listed at the weekend and has an open day this coming Saturday.
It’s a nice property, and the pictures are pretty decent too!
No one died, as the agent behind the camera pointed out. But, it’s not quite cricket, is it?
So what would YOU do in this situation?
Comments (25)
WhynotcallroundatthecompetitorsofficeandsuggestaJointinstruction-60%-40%split?Atleastyougetsomethingoutofyourhardwork.
Gor blimey, Taff – you want to water down that Horlicks a bit, mate! ;o)
Is that a Welsh town, by any chance? ;o)
Unfortunately I would take the view….
Lesson learned…. move on.
No point dragging our profession thru the mud re legal/copyright/small claims action.
The positive is you went the extra to help get the instruction and on this occasion you lost out. Whether the owner was legally or morally wrong?… no matter…? move on.
I had something like this happen to me, where my photos were scraped off my website and used by another agent.
The agent (a fancy cotswold one with a double-barrelled name) was so incompetent that they left my listings including directions and terms and conditions at the bottom of the advert for everyone to see.
After ignoring my phone message and email about it. I went to their office and loudly asked about the issue and they just sat their shame-faced and could not tell me where the photos had come from. Needless to say the next time the property comes on the market to rent I will be looking at the advert again.
Bit naive in downloading onto the vendors computer, but these things happen.
I would not kick up a fuss, how can you win?
Just chalk it up to experience and move on.
Sorry, SP – but I disagree with such a stance.
I am currently fighting a local corporate who has copied OUR photos from the RM property listing and is using them on THEIR listing.
I am currently at stage #2 – letter sent giving them 7 days to remove the offending photos or I will instruct Legals.
And no – the article isn’t about me! You are correct – the Agent does appear to have been too trusting – but of course we aren’t seeing the whole picture so that is supposition on our part.
What IS evident is the other Agent has used photography supplied by the vendor.
It is whether or not the instructed Agent did this in the knowledge that it was the work of another who would hold Copyright that is the issue – is it not?
I think your situation differs PeeBee, if i had published pictures that were then copied i would look at speaking with the agent.
If you were naive enough to download onto a vendors computer without a signed contract, they then go with another agent and use those photographs, looks a little like sour grapes. (but does show a distinct lack of class from the agent and seller)
Most i would do is a letter to the vendor saying you obviously rated our marketing shame you did not instruct me. “Kill them with kindness”
That’s hardly going to cause sleepless nights, SP.
Would be interesting to know whether the aggrieved Agent has in face raised the issue with the other in the wrangle – and what the outcome was.
I’ll keep you advised about my situation on this thread – just in case anyone gives a shizzle…
How can the agent come out of this well kicking up a stink?
Not going to win them any business, not going to win any positive publicity, not going to get any recommendations.
All the poor comments from the vendor and the other agent (not justified but they will try and make out its not their fault and they are entitled to use them, which of course they are not)
And why would you want to cause another human being a sleepless night over photographs?
Pick your battles, this is not one of them.
The onus is on the advertising agent to establish authenticity of another photos. They haven’t a leg to stand on.
Watermark the photographs before you send them next time.
The photos legally belong to the person who took them. They need to send their bill to the agent using them and if not paid – small claims court https://www.gov.uk/make-court-claim-for-money/overview
Sorry, but this is the route I would go as well…..I wouldn’t be able to stop myself !
Me too. I would not forget to take a copy of the advertising showing the photographs and bill the agent (not the vendor) £500 as this is typical fee for that area with 28 days to be paid. Hopefully the agent learned from their mistake for next time.
Copyright and all that is a fair enough reason but the agent didn’t win the instruction and gave the vendor the images, i suggest the vendor is allowed to use them, why wind up a local mover? Then the blank agency agreement the valuer didn’t get signed is rolled up nice a tight and he or she gets a clip round the ear with it, why didn’t they tune into the vendors motivation, arrange one offs, get full details done / go the rest of he way and get them signed up……….and all the other bits….’I can have you on the web in an hour or so now we have these photos you like and my colleagues can be calling out to our data base, we can have you tweeted, face booked and on our TV screens…..in the pigging paper for next week! – Jonnie
I sympathise but it’s easy to get carried away with a potential vendor who you seem to be getting on well with. In over 34 years in this industry there is always someone ‘nice’ who will take the mickey – you just don’t know who they are until they do it! They probably don’t even realise, in their rush to get their property sold, that they are actually behaving badly.
I had Tepilo use some aerial photography of mine, which we’d use to market a development of apartments, on Rightmove last year. An e-mail and they took it down! I believe the vendor just thought they could lift it from our website and pass it on. Lots of people in estate agency training etc go on about ‘trust’ and being the ‘trusted’ agent. Shame they can’t train vendors.
Colin is right about this, photographs are the property of the photographer so using someone else’s photographs without permission is a breach of copyright. You often find this with letting agents who right click photos from the portals to use. I phone them every time and demand they either pay for them or take them down immediately.
Why oh why would you take the photos and hand them to the vendor prior to signing the client up?! Yes take the photos at the same time but keep them on the camera and take them back to you office until the contract is signed. Surely this is common sense . . . . or is it?
I could do with following an Agent like that. I might even treat him to a tape measure!
I would echo Trafford’s comment and add, Get your agency signed before you hand over anything! I would also add you need to check out your competition thoroughly, as they surely have you.
What would I do? Become a professional photographer and give up being an agent. I’m clearly better at taking a good picture than winning an instruction!
As a professional property photographer of some considerable experience the law is very clear on this. Both UK and international copyright law states that the photographs are the copyright of the person taking the images in the first place. That person has full legal control over who may use those photographs and the second agent may only publish them with the first agent’s permission and the first agent has every right to ask the second agent to remove the photographs from their website and or any brochures that may have been printed.
Yes, straightforward photography copyright law!
Nice letter to the seller and second agent, pointing out the error of their ways.
Oh the irony of this story!
There is no ethical dilema here you simply move on take your skill and experience next door and smile politely when you slap a Sold slip on your board.
This isn’t so much a guest appearance but this is a wry smile!