Rightmove’s dominance of the property portal market is set to grow further.
Finance website The Motley Fool says that dominance by one company is common in the internet industry, citing Google, Facebook and eBay in their respective markets.
“But although Rightmove is the biggest online property portal by traffic, it still faces stiff competition from Zoopla.
“Innovations ranging from calculating the distance to the nearest railway station and archived listings have helped Zoopla to stay in a strong second place position.
“But Rightmove’s dominance is set to strengthen with the rise of OnTheMarket.
“Traditional estate agents, concerned about the duopoly of online portals and the rise of online estate agents, have launched their own competitor portal, OnTheMarket.
“Agents listing properties on OnTheMarket are only allowed to list on one other portal; and with Rightmove being the busiest, it is Zoopla that loses out. OnTheMarket also refuses listings from online-only estate agents.
“Zoopla, which still managed to grow revenues by 10% in the six months to the end of March 2015, saw the number of its members fall by 16%.
“The worst may yet be to come, as Zoopla could see more traffic move to Rightmove, given that Zoopla no longer has a comprehensive listing of properties for sale.”
The Motley Fool observes that corporates Countrywide and LSL, along with Foxtons, have not signed up to OTM, and concludes: “This should mean that OnTheMarket will fail to build enough of a presence, and instead actually strengthen Rightmove’s dominance, as only Rightmove will be able to attract listings from all agents.”
The Motley Fool tips Rightmove shares over Zoopla, and also recommends shares in Countrywide, LSL and Foxtons, saying these are under-valued.
The article by Jack Tang, described as “having a position at Countrywide”, is here
Comments (63)
Time to engage the troll/delete software to remove those who are not actually involved in our industry.
Forward them to the Babbling Forum where they can engage with each other, playing their banjos on the porch and dreaming of being in THAT film with Burt Reynolds.
yeehaaaaaaa!
So would you rather you just had pro-otm members posting rather than people with concerns discussing why they have not joined?
Seems pretty pointless to me, can OTM not set up a forum where members can just pat each other on the back and say how well they are doing?
I would have thought you welcomed discussion. But i guess the “If i shout loudest” approach works best for you. Well done for reasoned debate.
Smile, we know your opinions and you have mentioned them many times in different threads on this, which is fine. You work in the industry and contribute to the discussion. You contribute to many industry threads on this forum.
There are some on here that only comment on articles with the word “portal” mentioned and are never seen commenting on other important industry threads.
They are using this site to simply forward their own personal agendas by writing innacurate, non factual nonsense about Onthemarket.
You aren’t one of them…….but you know the ones I’m reffering to.
Thank you (I think!)
There are one or two with their own agenda to push i agree ( and they do make themselves look rather foolish time and again) but there are also real agents with concerns (some warranted some not) which try and have a reasoned debate but are just shouted down. Its a shame there is not more constructive discussions on here as an ideal place to move the industry forward.
What happened to the story about taking a stand against onliners last week? really did excite me.
Could eye not set up a forum with threads as an add on to the news site? be great to keep some of the progressive thoughts and in the lime light, sure you can add some advertising along side it 😉
Will also stop the same arguments every time a new story on the same issue comes out.
The only problem I had with the “stand against online agents” campaign is that I fear that would lower professional agents to online agents standards.
I don’t feel their is a need to point out how bad some of them are as they seem to be doing apretty good job of that themselves thus far.
Good idea to have a separate add on forum to continue ideas/thoughts.
II would hope most agents would just highlight the difference why they are better as oppossed to just rubbishing online only agents.
Unfortuantley i am seeing more and more purple boards, they are by no means dominant but you know the saying “Boards breed boards” – I have a couple coming on the market with us this week. they only had PB round as sold one a couple of roads away. So no high street agent had a chance to pitch. They were sold they “Nothing up front, what have you to lose, we are cheaper blah blah blah” PB had the property for over 3 months, very few viewings, lots of no shows, poor details and no proactive calls. They are cutting their losses and coming with us but they have to pay the withdrawal fee. They now wish they had a second opinion!
These are the stories that need to be out there in the press, with the likes of the telegraph doing a review on the stories that are not successful. Surely a the president of the NAEA or such like should be focusing on this?
Come on wilko. Happy to share an opinion on anything relevant to our industry. Like the ongoing lack of regulation, the lethargy in conveyancing, the dearth of stock even post-election. We can all contribute here, and indeed we should. I have no personal “agenda”. I’m vocal today because the majority of the “portal” comments since the inception of Springett’s Greatest Hits are like a Morris dance. A little bit of fun sure but also a little bit garrulous and annoying. We’ve given portals too much thought without any decisive action. OTM isn’t the answer. In about 2006 when my RM fees were about to be raised again, for about the 5th year in a row, I told them I would leave if they went ahead with this. Needless to say they went up BUT I LEFT. I was desperate to be with them but fortunately they came to me first via a newish sales person. I made my offer and a new manager at RM accepted it. In 2008/9 when we all know what happened they tried it again and I reminded them of what had happened previously, and that in the climate we were in it was disgraceful as they hadn’t changed anything nor recognised what we were facing. My rates were frozen! Ok, so my rates have gone up year on year ever since but not by a huge amount. One of the reasons they’ve listened is because I also use Zoopla. Yes these guys riled me with complex composite charging when they acquired PrimeLocation but they’ve always been extremely personable and they deliver. For every £10 spent online I was paying RM about £7 or £8 compared to £2 or £3 for ZPG. Not exactly apples with apples. I thought that I’d have to address this and spend a little more with ZPG to be a little more visible while they grew and less with RM. So over time this practice has continued and now it’s about even Stevens given they both generate about the same amount of leads.
What I’m saying is that many of us threaten to leave RM but don’t. Never will. RM put their prices up – always will. Using ZPG as collateral has helped me maintain a modicum of control over my costs and so I am relatively content. It’s like having 2 brilliant employees and I am not resentful.
I think what’s happened in many cases is that RM’s price structure is so confusing with latent bolt-ons and their “it’s-better-to-have-more-at-a-net-higher-cost-but-lower-cost-per-unit” sales technique that we’ve judged any costs at ZPG as superfluous. For me that couldn’t be further from the truth. None of us need the majority of their bolt-ons – that’s just profligate.
Taking it “one day soon” to RM via the attempted deconstruction of ZPG simply doesn’t cut it. OTM is utopian in its creation, a red-herring, because none of us have united to say “RM, you’d better not take the ****” sooner. Even the number of consumers using OTM with its bitty USPs and who’ve stated a preference for RM or ZPG anyway are in decline. None of my political views will get in the way of the consumer proposition – and they are my income stream. Balance spend out between RM and ZPG and then we have a fair cry. If we don’t then we’ll end up paying more for RM than we currently do to have both RM and ZPG. Some of us are probably in that situation already.
Think i agree in the most part, but you are not resentful of RM – Not sure what else they can do to make things worse!
For me you hit the nail on the head when you say “many of us threaten to leave RM but don’t” – This is the crux of the problem. When and if this happens maybe we will have some power over RM until then i will resentfully keep paying the monthly subscription.
@ Consumer Perspective….I do understand what you are saying…… You take inappropriate personal snipes at Ian Springett and members of agents mutual, whilst hating Rightmove and their increasing costs. You don’t need to use as many words next time.
As a member of onthemarket who also advertises with Rightmove I have to say that I am happy with both. For most companies that are involved with otm it is about a self owned not for profit portal, simple as that. I left Zoopla because they started to advertise third party companies next to my property with the intention of taking business away from my company.
If/when Rightmove costs increase too much I may decide to remove my listings, but that situation hasn’t arrived yet. When I went with otm Rightmove gave a sizeable discount to keep my offices with them…..so that’s what I did.
You haven’t told me what % of otm are small independent firms, you haven’t said why you believe otm is a “political” cause, and you seem happy to mis lead your sellers by saying you have total coverage!……You really do make your points of view come across as quite foolish.
Smile….many of us don’t threaten to leave RM and then don’t. At the moment things are working quite well for agents on onthemarket and rightmove. If RM keep increasing their fees to to an un sustainable amount then OTM is there as an alternative for any professional full service agent, including you.
Just for clarity it was not a pop at OTM saying they are threatening and have not, it was more a comment to the industry in general. I thnk i must have heard every agent say at least a dozen times, “I’m going to walk away from RM” and they never do (me included!)
Springett doesn’t do numbers. It’s all a guess. Therefore I cannot help you.
For political cause read cultish.
I think we’ve managed to bore a few people today.
I admire your passion though wilko.
The same tedious arguments, and when they fail, insults from the OTM crowd. A phrase that springs to mind to describe the delusion of OTM supporters, in the face of all evidence (as used by the columnist David Aaronovitch in The Times last week in the context of labour supporters being surprised by their election defeat) is ‘an echo chamber in a hall of mirrors.’
Sorry?….. did you say something?…. no… no you didn’t…. my mistake…. you farted!
And you started earlier than usual on the jellies and buckfast pal
Rightmove has and will gain more dominance until the lethargic or miserly fence sitters, take note that their inaction is exactly why the likes of Z and RM thrive on!
If we all support OnTheMarket.com RM will have a serious contender to deal with and lets be realistic, this isn’t going to happen in 4 or 5 months, it will take years.
The bigger picture by far is what are we going to do when one of the portals decides to go down the route of direct selling? Which they will in time, especially as the ever hungry shareholder demands more! Whatever your thoughts about online agents, direct sellers, RM or Z, without some control of our industry… there will be no industry!
“what are we going to do when one of the portals decides to go down the route of direct selling”
Rightmove already do direct sales, they have for a while now. I expect that Zoopla will as well soon. Some online agents just sell a listing on the portals, so effectively they are just a middle man between Rightmove and Zoopla and a gnats whisker away from direct sales.
So, here is the way I see it “splitting up” over the coming years.
Rightmove will do direct sales and listings for the online agents and some high street agents,
Zoopla will do direct sales, listings for online agents and advertising for third parties like utility companies and financial services.
Onthemarket will just specialise in High Street agents.
Wilko is absolutely correct. In the mean time some agents will continue to support business that slowly but surely are sticking a knife in their backs. They give a stuff about agents, just your money.
There is only so far that Rightmove can go with regard to increased advertising costs to agents. If they go too high then the high street agents will have Onthemarket or Zoopla as an alternative, one not for profit . There must come a tipping point, assuming Rightmove keep increasing costs (remember they have already told shareholders that £1000.00-£2,000.00, minimum per branch per month is what they are initially aim to achieve) where High Street agents say “enough is enough” and move to one of the alternatives.
Wilko, I think the point here is that 1/4 of agency got together and made a website, they said they wanted to take control of costs and direction. To my knowledge not many agents joined OTM because of what Zoopla was charging them. They then had a decision to make and most dumped Zoopla. What message do you think that sent to Rightmove towers ? How high is too high … “dont charge me £1500 or ill join OTM “…go on then, we know its not working and the other alternative is Zoopla and thats also been weakened by the this whole debacle ,sign here , press hard
“…..go on then, we know its not working”
Onthemarket advertises property on a website format, Zoopla advertises on a website format. Most have agreed they work just fine.
Yellow Pages used to have the same attitude that Rightmove have at the moment……….And people couldn’t wait to leave them for an alternative.
Your comment on this Wilko is mind blowing in its stupidity, it really is.
The reason people left Yellow Pages was because of Google. Google took over because it came to the market with something disruptive that offered consumers something genuinely different and which attracted a huge audience as a result (fast and relevant search which didn’t involve picking up a massive yellow book).
What OTM are doing is deliberately offering something worse than what is available already (less tools, less information), and the lack of audience is proof that consumers are interested despite the millions that are being spent.
It doesn’t matter how much you paraphrase me and make silly emotional statements, OTM will continue to flatline (maybe grow a little) and disappoint from a genuine delivery standpoint. That’s what happens when the emotional battle cries fade away and you are left with an old-school, mediocre team to deliver a mammoth task (even Google failed to enter the portal space).
No amount of shouting and screaming will change that – although I can understand why you are so desperate to persuade people otherwise.
Oh, and checking out the share price of Zoopla today, they are around 20% up on their IPO price despite losing a load of customers. No doubt you and your frenzied chums will declare this a big deception, but I think I will trust an army of analysts and market sentiment over the delusional rants of a few numbskulls in a trade facing forum.
Well done though to the masses who may well have delivered Primelocation back to Savills and Knight Frank – you must be feeling really good about that!
Here here Danny.
So in my firm we share a view that portals are a safeguard when valuing properties and a means of generating a segment of our overall enquiries. The conversations with Vendors or Landlords are pretty simple when they ask about our online coverage because we remain on RM and ZPG which is all that is expected. We win instructions from agents not listing with ZPG and have not lost out to agents citing OTM – nor will we. I can justify my fees because I give total coverage. Actually got told the other day that a competitor (using OTM) was prepared to charge the same fees as me whilst decimating the marketing exposure of the property I have now sold. Do agents still do that?? Blimey.
Anyway, I have no particular interest in RM or ZPG, they are what they are. Fortunately though, I don’t have sleepless nights wondering how much longer I’ll be hemorrhaging money to a lost political cause that we all know is ultimately the sour-grape love-child of the “Big 6”.
“justify my fees because I give total coverage”
That’s not true, you don’t give total coverage, so you are mis-leading your sellers.
And since when has onthemarket been a political cause???
It’s a website where some agents choose to advertise property….with their sellers approval.
“sour grape love child of the big 6″……can you tell me what % of members are small, independent firms please?
More completely, unfounded, incorrect, innacurate, un truthful nonsense.
If you are going to post, at least put some truthful valid points in occasionally .
Rightmove’s dominance will continue to grow whilst those genuine ‘on the fence’ agents” wait around mulling over when they should join http://www.OnTheMarket.com.
Zoopla will never catch Rightmove now especially as they’ve alianated so many agents, and they’ve already proven with their last set of accounts that they plan to take more and more money off of their (remaining) member agents.
Those OTM have given the industry/high street model a chance, it’s those who now do nothing that will be to blame for Rightmove gaining more dominance and raising fees further.
You are seriously deluded Paul H. Strikes me that OTM needing a sales force in the first place is crazy – surely just online booking etc would have worked? Given that the sales guys are largely ex RM or ZPG it suggests they are only interested in the “sign up and leg it” approach. Furthermore, OTM is not the no-brainer many people crossed everything it would be. It’s costing agents a fortune now and more (latently) going forwards as no-one gives a damn about it. ZPG is close to RM in many ways (well they are the only alternative in >95% consumer eyes – and yes, it IS all about consumers) and agents have dented this progress by perhaps 12 months. Good luck with your RM price rise chats which you’ll have to take because OTM isn’t a threat and you’ve ditched the only contender.
“You are seriously deluded Paul H.”…Which bit of my post makes you think that?
“Strikes me that OTM needing a sales force in the first place is crazy – surely just online booking etc would have worked?”…OTM needed to explain their business model and the whole ethos behind the venture, this is nor something that could have been done online.
“Given that the sales guys are largely ex RM or ZPG it suggests they are only interested in the “sign up and leg it” approach.”…Can you explain further how by employing sales reps from either Z or RM means that OTM is only interested in a “sign up and leg it approach”
“ZPG is close to RM in many ways (well they are the only alternative in >95% consumer eyes – and yes, it IS all about consumers) and agents have dented this progress by perhaps 12 months.”…Precisely the reason why agents should back an agent owned non for profit portal.
“Good luck with your RM price rise chats which you’ll have to take because OTM isn’t a threat and you’ve ditched the only contender.”…RM are going to raise fees, they have been completely up front about this, OTM would not have changed that, however what it has done is give agents an alternative.
“ZPG is close to RM in many ways”.!!! It is a portal where people look for property, yes, but so is onthemarket. They are both alternatives.
In my view it is a bit deluded to think that any company selling advertising doesn’t need a sales force!
Sorry avent should read haven’t. Big fingers. Little keyboard
Trevor you keep spouting on about CMA. They tell me that they are not investigating OTM. Stop pushing this nonsense, your personal agenda is more to do with you pet project INEA which has everything to lose with the one portal rule?
“…for sure I know the industry is in a mess…” And you adding to it accomplishes WHAT, exactly?
“But portals alone are not the answer.” So WHY, then, are you fixated upon them to the point of barking at the moon?
Oh – don’t bother apologising for your dyslexic digits. We are WELL used to your posting style by now.
What the articles fail to highlight is that the CMA are STILL monitoring AM / OTM which may turn into a full blown investigation.
…and who knows, Mr Mealham – ONE of these days you might just post enough times in enough places one of your desperate pleas for a “whistleblower” to actually stir up something other than leaves and dust.
Maybe PeeBee. …. for sure I know the industry is in a mess and needs radical change looking at how avents can better accdss and offer listings away from media offerings that pillage way above a fair share of agents annual profits.
But portals alone are not the answer. But for sure the corporates that backed RM and Z avent felt the need to back a 3rd model away from Prime and their other outlets.
Trevor…. you best get into another business if you think estate agency is in a mess.
High Street Estate Agency is doing very well because it doesn’t rely on portals!
Wow!
High Street Estate Agency is doing very well because it doesn’t rely on portals!
Go home GPL you’re drunk!
ok Toutsider!….because you sat at the back of the class with HarryN
On Slowmove you have Live & Non-Live properties…. Non-Live I would use for pending properties… as Slowmove is less effective than my own company website and OnTheMarket (because I have actually put time & effort into promoting that)…. I list my properties on my company website and OnTheMarket 1st together with my Mailing List and my very successful Local Newspaper Ad!…. and whaddaya know…. on many occasions we VERY SUCCESSFULLY SELL PROPERTIES without them even going live on Slowmove….and of course Hoopla?…..Zzzzzzz….no one uses that here!
So, trust me, when you want to try and teach someone to suck eggs go away & practice first!
Not only does my High Street Business/Staff/Experience/Reputation etc successfully sell our clients properties…. LOCAL MARKETING including LOCAL NEWSPAPERS works exceptionally well!
And trust me on this as well… if you rely on portals for your estate agency business you are a fool, an amateur and certainly NOT an Estate Agent and not fit to walk in my shadow….. so, pedal off and sell your ice cream cones somewhere else.
You have failed Competency Test No1…. You are NOT a fit & proper Estate Agent
The Outsider isn’t an agent GPL, he is one of the digital people.
and yes…. a digit person!…. spinning on it Robert!…. but you are one as well?….. although different?… intelligent?
we must chat at some point as you have some points etc if interest.
I am proud to be an Estate agent (ex FNAEA) who does tech and very definitely not a digital person.
Incorrect Mr May!
Well. My organisation has a website. And it’s very widely used, but im not a digital person in a digital company at all.
I have my own definition of a digital person which has nothing to do with your actual job or company, it isn’t a bad thing at all but you definitely think digital rather than think people, that is the difference.
If all the data that belongs to Agents was taken off the portals what would be left?
Oh i’m definitely not a people person. You’re spot on there.
Which probably means you are! I like your posts for their honesty but they are definitely more digital than Agent.
haha. Definitely drunk!
Ignorance is bliss PeeBee
Well – that explains perfectly your state of permanent rapture, Mr Mealham.
Next…!
Just looking for an argument today Trevor?
Boring
This is all sooooooo tedious. OTM was created by agents for agents (because of an ongoing rage against monthly rates) about which Joe Public literally didn’t give a monkey’s. The ostensible aim naturally is to get funding from all the “independents” (read sheep) to create another high end site akin to PrimeLocation from years gone by where the Big 6 can cash in where they missed out previously. So the rage really should be about OTM’s futile “rewind and play” strategy at great cost to the smaller folk AND about how RM are getting stronger and stronger. Zoopla appears to be an excellent consumer site flipping the more traditional RM model on its head. If we’re talking fools then it’s anyone thinking OTM will ever impact the consumer, whilst RM gets more and more costly. Shame on you…
A really important aspect here which is rarely commented on. I don’t think the ‘big 6’ are looking to cash in however.
For me, this is about Savills, Knight Frank & Co massively regretting selling Primelocation (they were ****-a-hoop at the time) and deliberately structuring the new business so they cannot make the same mistake again (although of course if it whittles down to 200 members it won’t be too difficult to get 90% agreement to sell)!.
I do wonder when the ‘every day’ agents who have signed up and funded this thing are going to work this out and realise that their main objective (namely to weaken the dominance of Rightmove) has backfired spectacularly, and all they have done is hand the posh boys their own website back.
There is loads of evidence of the bias toward the top end and London; broadsheet newspapers, advertising in the Evening Standard, the Royal Philharmonic orchestra doing the soundtrack blah blah blah. There was even a rumour that they were going to take over running the Countrylife website but they obviously saw sense and realised that would cause a mutiny from the smaller guys.
Tragic really. I do wonder though; agents got together to create this thing – will groups of them get together to break it?
If proven a cartel. The big six will be looking to cash out alike the Trinity and Three Countries agents cartel.
Records show that OTM and AM has different directors – so a collusion restraining others in the market is a cartel.
I agree, it is soooo tedious…..especially having to read the nonsense you post……apart from your opening 2 sentences the rest is both untrue and totally innacurate.
You don’t have to read it wilko, but I know you’ll continue to do so. I like how you agree with Joe Public not caring two hoots about our collective plight and then go on to disregard the rest of my point. Let’s see what you make of this: Consumers don’t give a jot about how much we pay portals or what portals charge; therefore they couldn’t care less about the provenance of a new portal, especially if created BY and FOR agents. All they know is that some agents in every town and village do very well from them having to move. Varying fees for varying levels of work, ad nauseam. Every company needs competition and with OTM simply gunning to undermine any threat to RM we stand to lose out on what competition creates and are increasingly at the latter’s mercy. I hasten to add that when OTM was conceived it was to upset the DUOPOLY. This hasn’t happened and there is a beautifully retrospective air of, “Haven’t we done well uniting to dent ZPG?” with consequential high-fiving. So far, so bad. I’m waiting for the, “Oh ******, haven’t we done so disastrously, uniting to strengthen RM?” with consequential red faces and consternation.
“Haven’t we done well uniting to dent ZPG?”
I don’t think any otm members that left Zoopla actually care about what they are doing now. They wanted an alternative agency owned, not for profit portal-simple as that.
I would say that onthemarket has done well. It was funded, launched, is in working order and 1000s of offices, mine included are getting leads from it.
If onthemarket didn’t exist are you telling me Rightmove wouldn’t have become stronger and would have faded, with advertisers pulling their stock?
This is what I’m telling you. Same as always wilko.
I’ve said all along that RM needs competition and that can only come (especially now) from ZPG. Not from some “after-the -horse-has-bolted” and “sooo last decade” website that not only has zero content to engage consumers but has no USP. RM only becomes stronger when people threaten to leave and yet don’t. Through some kind of fear!! Everyone knows about ZPG, so if you think it’s about stock (which is isn’t alone) – why not ditch RM and put your stock on ZPG? Oh, you daren’t because RM is so amazing and OTM will undercut them both soon enough. How soon wilko and at what cost meantime? Is it a ploy to rid the industry of new agents? How very arcadian and serendipitous!
With respect, the Motley fool is just that and needs to catch up with what is actually happening rather than what they reckon.
Well I do know this…. my business isn’t reliant on our company being members of Rightmove…. however the financial blood pumping thru Rightmove’s viens is all its estate agency members. So…. forgive me for my observation…. in the long run…. who relies on who?
GPL – you have outdone yourself here.
To be clear, you are saying that the more dominant Rightmove become, the more reliant they are on agents?
Let me educate you… The more dominant Rightmove become, the less reliant they become on agents. Why? Because their dominance comes from the relationship they have with consumers, not with you.
Every agent fears losing control of the relationship with our customers. By strengthening Rightmove’s hand, we ultimately cede control to them and may as well get on all fours and ready ourselves…
I have read your triumphant rants over the past few months as you charged blindly into the OTM breach. It will fail for everyone except the Central London and country homes crowd.
I am afraid that your ignorance and hubris are going to backfire.
Well said Harry
HarryN…. I can educate you briefly…. Rightmove are dominant. You just have to accept there is another property portal…. OnTheMarket.com
Cosy up with Trevor and snuggle down under your Rightmove blanket.
It’s not about Rightmove for me as they have already peaked in my area so forgive me…. I need no education from you about my business as I wouldn’t use your knowledge as toilet paper…. toilet paper is much more dominant than you.
Wow – your response is as sensible as your original comment.
Not a massive surprise I guess.
HarryN…. I can barely gather up the interest to engage with you…. instead I’ll crack on with estate agency instead as that is much more engaging.
Dare I say a day or 2 at charm school wouldnt do you any harm 🙂 Sorry, but I can’t support the OTM/AM cartel club.
9:08 Harry, bit late for you to come flying out of the blocks on any portal story!!!
Heavy night last night?