New research has shown that Purplebricks is topping a leader board of online agents with a national presence.
Although Purplebricks – advertised in a prime time slot last night during ITV programme Midsomer Murders – describes itself as a hybrid model, it has been included in a number crunching exercise by Selling Up, a comparison site of online agents.
The site compared online agents with at least ten properties on their books according to Zoopla listings.
According to Selling Up’s founder Oliver Lewis, Purplebricks has been making strides in terms of taking on stock.
He said that last October, Purplebricks had some 800 properties on its books with the inventory now doubled. Lewis said that within that time, Purplebricks has gone from fifth to first place in the league table, overtaking eMoov.
The research found that eMoov had about 1,500 properties listed in October, with the figure roughly the same now.
However, Sarah Beeny’s Tepilo has added 40% to its listings within the last 30 days, which Lewis described as “anecdotal but compelling evidence that its current major advertising campaign (including TV, national press and London Underground) is having a positive effect on consumers”.
Lewis also said that the total number of properties listed with online agents on Zoopla is just over 10,000.
But he said it was difficult to work out market share, because “many traditional high street estate agents are no longer listing on Zoopla since the launch of rival portal OnTheMarket.com”
Rules of engagement were that each online agent had to have ten or more properties listed and to have have a national presence, described as at least two properties listed outside its immediate local area.
The full report is here
Comments (182)
I have concluded the report is useful- every traditional agent should keep an eye on Selling Up and take a copy on every appraisal.
The biggest online agency currently has less than half of one property for sale in every town. 1670 properties in 3500 activity centres.
A internet listing fee of £*** buys a 1:>900,000 chance of being found on Zoopla. (Every property is hidden in with the 900,000 plus properties on in this Zoopla)
The odds of a buyer finding a single property from the online agent with the most properties is currently 1670:>900,000 (0.2%)
To compete with the typical small agent in a given town (15-20 properties listed) the biggest on line agent has to have 50,000 in this list. To compete with a typical OTM agent about 230,000 on this list.
I appreciate the agent with the most properties on this list isn’t trying to cover all the towns, cities and villages and that the Zoopla filters of price and area do filter out some of the chaff but reducing agent selection to a numbers game is one easily won by traditional agents. Quoting numbers that are not area specific reduces the significance of this report to “PB has more properties than the rest of the Agents competing for this 2% niche of the industry”
So true, Robert – but unfortunately wasted on what is now a tiny audience of you, me – and this character.
And ‘sellingup’ isn’t listening…
It was always wasted on me, but failing to convince you (and I am sure many other agents, traditional and online) will be a big fail for the project. If voucher sales is the money spinner here I am not sure who is going to be convinced by Wowcher for property. As a traditional Agent will you be signing up when they get around to your agency model and your neck of the woods?
Not even maybe, Robert.
The more I see of schemes like this the more I am convinced an opportunity is being ceated for the likes of Trevor Kent, Ray Evans, and those represented by the stereotype George Daws xFNAEA.
In my opinion… everything about your venture.
To clarify, the tool that “allows potential homesellers to find the best deal” is the online estate agent comparison here: http://www.sellingup.com/tools/compare-online-estate-agents/
…rather than the table shown in this article, which serves a different purpose.
“Consider that if an agent had two properties for sale, one of which was under offer, that would be a 50% rate – it sounds good but clearly not statistically as compelling as say an agent with 100 or even better 1000 properties for sale, 50% of which were under offer. I think it’s a fairly simple concept.”
Yeah – like they’re going to actually give numbers!
I reiterate – STATISTICS are what people are fed. And with respect, how many potential buyers do you expect to visit your site as opposed to those who go straight to the source of ********?
One in a chuff-load, I would suggest. Even then – I repeat what I have said previously – you are pushing the wrong figures down their throats.
“Yeah – like they’re going to actually give numbers!”
They don’t have to – the numbers are published on Zoopla. That was the basis of the table – we were giving the numbers in order of highest to lowest. Fair enough if you don’t think the numbers are interesting or relevant, that is your view. I suspect some other people did – including the editor of this website who chose to write the very article you are commenting on.
You simply don’t want to see or even acknowledge the existence of an alternative to your viewpoint – do you?
Repeat after me – La la la la la la I’M NOT LISTENING!!!
“…if you don’t think the numbers are interesting or relevant, that is your view. I suspect some other people did – including the editor of this website who chose to write the very article you are commenting on.”
I rest my case. In case you haven’t even bothered to check – this is an “industry news” website – the Editor has written the article to show us in the business what’s being said – good or bad. It’s called REPORTING.
Get over yourself – this is NO best-seller you’ve had published.
Peebee, you claim that I “don’t want to see or even acknowledge the existence of an alternative to your viewpoint”, then immediately after you quote me as saying: “…if you don’t think the numbers are interesting or relevant, that is your view.” I also added the words ‘fair enough’.
In an earlier comment I said I thought you had a valid point that there are other ways we could have ordered the table, but I went on to explain in some detail the reasons why we did it the way we did it. I can try, but at this stage I’m not sure that there is much more I can do to help you.
” I also added the words ‘fair enough’.”
NO – you ACTUALLY followed the above sentence with “Fair enough if you don’t think the numbers are interesting or relevant, that is your view.” You then tried to dispel my viewpoint by claiming others would consider the ‘statistics’ to be relevant and fit for purpose – which they are – just not the purpose you claim you are ‘there for’ the homeselling public.
“I can try, but at this stage I’m not sure that there is much more I can do to help you.”
Trust me, ‘sellingup’ – I neither need nor want your ‘help’.
But don’t worry – I assure you that every future “report” you manage to blag some column inches for – I’ll be there with my views…
You may wish to re-read the comments above as you seem to be somewhat confused. Thank-you for your views nonetheless, irrespective of whether I agree with you, I appreciate the feedback.
Seems like a good subject for Ros to research! There is a very blurred line between passive intermediary and Estate Agency services- one it seems service providers are happy to ignore despite policy and regulation being different for each sector. Then there are the spurious claims about service levels. Having a 24 hour website isn’t a 24 hour service, if it is it is hardly a USP to boast about. Using an out of hours reception service to take messages isn’t a 24 hour Estate Agency service. In the same way as Moneypenny who field calls for Vision Express doesn’t claim their staff are qualified opticians and Vision Express doesn’t claim to be a 24 hour optician surely the same rules ought to apply to the claims of an Agent or their contracted reception service?
Quite honestly PeeBee I don’ t care where they are in a list, they have not and will not affect my business or my lifestyle. I just believe there is a place for the model in the consumer market.
Robert May has posted you a reply Mrs Mouse/Ms Mouse-but sleeping with someone else’s husband and child – it seems rude for you to ignore his reply while you natter on at Peebee, he isn’t the one you have insulted!
Very amusing =) … I should of added my husband and our child …
I have never said there wasn’t – or isn’t – or won’t be -“a place for the model”.
They just need to play fair. Win work on their merits – nothing else.
I look forward to the “if” and “when” they start doing that.
“Also, bear in mind, once you are talking about small numbers of stock, e.g. 12 for sale, % rates are not as statistically useful.”
With respect, percentage rates are EVERYTHING – as once quoted they form the benchmark.
Do you really expect that Agent ‘Z’ with a dozen properties on their books are going to volunteer that information, when instead they can proudly crow that 58.33% (or seven properties, if you prefer to talk numbers instead…) of their entire register is SSTC?
Just like the Agencies you have “a special interest” in, who use various “statistics” all day: every day in an attempt to fluff up their feathers against the competition.
You say: “With respect, percentage rates are EVERYTHING – as once quoted they form the benchmark.”
Consider that if an agent had two properties for sale, one of which was under offer, that would be a 50% rate – it sounds good but clearly not statistically as compelling as say an agent with 100 or even better 1000 properties for sale, 50% of which were under offer. I think it’s a fairly simple concept. That is why when big companies do opinion polls they ask lots of people, not just two.
It didn’t, that was your perception of the post. I do have a close friend that works for an online model but personally I don’t. My argument is why is every so worried about online agencies when all I seem to read, is they are doomed to fail, but yet you all seem so concerned about what and how they are doing. Me personally, go in to valuation and sell, our service, my colleagues and how I can achieve the best price for them, after all that is ultimately what a vendor wants.
Today – “I personally work for a High Street independent but can see a place in the market for the online model.”
October 21 2014 – “Yawn – everyday is the same for you TA. If the the online models are so poor why worry about them so much??? Oh and how many of you booked 22 valuations today???”
Sorry – you TA?
I thought you just said you are a “TA”?
Why then does your previous post indicate different?
You won’t get a response out of Miss Mouse after that PeeBee’ing 😉
Errrr he/she just did!
God know’s why as it you that has been shown up for what your real motives are for posting! Come on it’s ok, just own up you’ll feel better for it!
That really made me chuckle! I work and have worked for the same independent for the last 18 years. I have no intention of leaving and working for anyone else. I am just very interested in finding out why you are so against online if you feel so strongly that the service that you personally provide is better! I know I can’t compete price wise but can complete service wise and we are slap bang in their biggest area. Its no affected us in the slightest.
I don’t defend, I personally work for a High Street independent but can see a place in the market for the online model. Mine was just a question out of pure curiosity. Having done my own homework on the company by calling at 3am I found that they were pretty damn good and having called during opening hours and questioned there people correctly, they tell me that have complete their NAEA. So it makes me wonder why, he feels the need to lie?
You are in my humble opinion a very brave, misguided, or foolish person to add the last sentence to your post.
I await Mr May’s response with baited breath.
LOL! Brave I think..
I tell you what Minnie Mouse I think you’ve motivated me to check out your claim, not right now of course as that will be a bit obvious, but maybe in a couple of weeks I will set my alarm for 12pm,3pm, 4pm and 5pm on random days and put in a call to check your claim when you least expect it!
It’s not me that will least expect it, I will be tucked in bed with a husband and child!
But, in honestly do call them, I was surprised.
Really perhaps it’s just a complete coincidence that you have also (from memory) posted on only one other thread in the last 6 months and that article also mentioned PB?!
TWO threads that I can find so far, Paul H – the one you note where ‘MinnieMouse’ leaps to the assistance of PB – the other she jumped to the rescue of Ms Beeny’s woeful offering.
She’s a regular slayer of evil dragons (or in her eyes, dinosaurs, no doubt…) ;o)
Heres why I remember PeeBee, here’s what MM said…..”@PaulH – Why do you feel its necessary not to embrace any change at all? It seems to me that the vendor-public has spoken and the future is Orange/Purple!”…Is MM a big fan of Easy property and PB by chance….you betcha!
He’s right the website doesn’t allow non core hour appointments.
“…I will set my alarm for 12pm,3pm, 4pm and 5pm on random days…”
Oh dear, Paul H – that’ll bu99er up your afternoon naps – won’t it! ;o)
Spot and comment of the week!
I had to think about that post Peebee, I always try to treat everyone with respect, even those who are openly rude or hostile towards something I have posted. I can’t see anything brave in an anonymous poster accusing me of being a liar. Sorry my reply took so long- you can breath now!
As documented last week, I have a property I would like to sell, as a result of a TV advert for Purplebricks I tried to access their 24 hour Estate Agency service. At 4:30 AM their Live chat was closed. I tried to book a pre 8 am appointment to value my property using their claimed 24 hour service. That is not possible. I called the 0800 number and was twice answered by an out of hours reception service not as per PB;s website trained estate agency staff. I emailed hoping for a reply from trained estate agency staff working on the claim on the PB website that I would not have to wait till normal Estate Agency opening hours. I eventually received a reply from the day staff 4 hours later. The commission saving by PB was according to their TV advert over £4000. It is not possible on the PB website to reduce the commission comparison tool down to the level offered locally be AM and other independent Agents. The actual saving if I had chose to go with PB on my property was under £700.
If you read PIE I have actually championed full service estate agent who don’t have traditional offices.
I don’t need to lie and have documented evidence already passed to independent 3rd parties to verify my experience of PB.
As I already posted here I have no issue PB offering a nationwide 365 day 24 hours service manned by trained staff, the problem is that they are not. The trained staff appear to keep the same hours as normal Estate agents and their claimed 24 hour service is not it is 14 hours plus 10 on a telephone reception service like Moneypenny.
@Robert May – you appear to have some vendetta against PB, may I enquire why please?
MinnieMouse
Mr May is more than up to responding to this himself – the fact that he hasn’t tells me he is otherwise engaged but keep watching this space – but as far as I can see he is asking the author of a “report” that has the company you wish to leap to the defence of (and not for the first time, I see…) sits at the top of – thereby giving an impression that it is Number 1 in its’ field.
Which, of course, it is – just the wrong field.
But no doubt you have a differing opinion you would like to share…?
Selling up sadly you can’t have a balanced discussion with PeeBee. He is amusing to read but sadly is very one sided. Well done trying.
Peebee is one of the most intelligent, balanced and consistent posters on either EAT or PIE and has been for years. Yes he will find weakness, contradiction and inconsistency in any discussion point but as he has demonstrated with his until recently secret membership of AM is very fair in his opinions and points. Peebee is to agency what litmus is to Acid and Alkaline.
Erm… thanks, Robert.
I’ve got to say that I prefer to think of myself as a person that, if I have an opinion on something I’m not frightened to voice it.
And ‘Fair point’ – isn’t an opinion one-sided simply by definition?
If we all had the same opinion on everything many of us would be redundant…
Robert, you can stop calling PeeBee a ‘he’ know, we have established that ‘he’ is in fact a ‘she’, but a very convincing ‘he’!
Maybe it just depends on the day, Paul H… or even the time of day… who knows? ;o)
To be honest I couldn’t care what sex you are (perhaps you were joking about being a ‘lady’) as long as you keep noring away at those ankles 😉
Dinna worry, matey – nowt’s changed since my public ‘coming out’ exercise!
I’m still rollin’ and hatin’; still gnawing away like a demented Jack Russell at any exposed ankle I see – and still giving credit if and where credit’s due, of course! ;o)
Well with Purplebricks on “Out of hours service” again I thought I would have a root through Sellingup.com. It is Black Circles for property. Perfectly independent but attempting to earn its living on kickback click through commissions from promoting FSBO, passive intermediary and associated services- effectively an advertising hub for businesses whose individual SEO efforts can not compete area by area, town by town with Rightmove. Zoopla, OTM and all the Agents focused in those areas.
I can see the idea, can see how the business plan would predict making money I just think it is too reliant on traditional agency being complacent and not catching on to what is going on.
It is a good job OTM has Peebee on their team he will be a good spotter for stuff like this.
I’m not going to apologise for carrying adverts, Robert. I think you would find that a lot of the websites you enjoy would cease to exist without adverts, including possibly the one you are reading now.
You don’t have to apologise I was trying to understand your business model and how you are hoping to make a living. You are allowed to run a business and make a profit. I just can’t see how you guys will earn a profitable living from a % share of a current maximum 30,000 sector sales with firms charging <0.3% which is about 1% below a sustainable average. You would need to be get a very good voucher rate on a very high number of click throughs to cover the cost of running a system that is effectively competing with its own customers along with RM, Zoopla, OTM, 95 other portals and about 7000 agency sites.
Robert, I appreciate your interest, but as to how we make revenue is not really something that you need to concern yourself with.
Sorry , its all part of the due diligence process. Isn’t it usual to assess the background and viability of service suppliers and whether they are genuinely independent or not? For all I know you could be Alex Chesterman, Russell Quirke, Steve Clemo anyone at all. Or you could be someone under contact to someone like that or their associates. Perhaps with your firm having a journalist background I am suppose to accept everything you say as gospel?
I can confirm I am none of the abovementioned. No, I wouldn’t expect you to take anything as gospel, you are entitled to form your own views.
“…you are entitled to form your own views.”
You missed off the end of the sentence, ‘sellingup’ – allow me to post it for you:
“…just don’t mention them on here ‘cos it bu99ers up any chance of my flimsy argument carrying any weight whatsoever.”
There you go – helping you out again, free gratis and for nowt.
Just think how much fun it could be if only you could afford my services as a consultant and Marketing Manager.
Oh – but then there ain’t that much money printed so it won’t happen.
You see – I actually have to believe in what I do…
“I don’t know why you have such disdain for our website, it does seem a bit irrational. If you have a proper point to make about the report or our site in general then please do.”
“We are only producing independent research into the marketplace.”
No – you are NOT.
You are simply regurgitating the ******** that these companies claim and padding it out with added sweetener.
In your “report”, you state:
“The measure we have decided to use is more customer-related: how many properties they currently have listed for sale. This is in part because it is a clear measure which gives an immediate idea of how the agent is doing on an operational day-to-day level.”
WHAT?? It tells one thing and one thing only – how many instructions the Agent holds.
If the SUCCESS of an Agent is what matters – then your “League Table” is pretty much in chaotic order. The company you list at BOTTOM, has according to the stats you quote A SIXTY-TWO PERCENT HIGHER chance of actually achieving a sale than the one at the top of the ‘leader board’. Top slot is actually sitting in a high mid-table TENTH position in terms of ACTUAL EFFECTIVENESS – ie your claimed ‘reason to be’ – “The guide to property sale success”.
Lost in one of your posts above you state “Please don’t get the impression we are anti-high street estate agents, we are not.”
No – of course you aren’t. Let’s just quote your own website instead –
“At Selling Up we have a special interest in online estate agents”
There. That’ll cleared up any potential misunderstanding – won’t it.
Morning Peebee, I didn’t spot your post until I posted mine. I hope your new chums appreciate your efforts.
You will no doubt call me out if I falsly claim I had predicted this too with my postings about fee erosion and how in particular the Zoopla valuation tools would fuel this industry sector. ( March/ April 2012)
Do you think it a coincidence that a Zoopla based report is now being used to promote this sector?
Yay, early doors for the voiceless dissenters!
Yes, we do have a special interest in online agents, it is an interesting emerging market and we have created a first of its kind price and service comparison tool, which we think brings a degree of clarity to an otherwise confusing area for the consumer. That in no way means we are anti-high street agent. On the contrary, we are looking at developing tools to help users engage with high street agents too.
Re your anaylsis of the league table, you make a good point, we could have ordered it by a different measure, e.g. ‘what % is under offer’ but on this occasion we wanted primarily to produce a ‘state of the market’ table showing who the biggest players were. Your views are appreciated nonetheless.
I am not sure you could order the report differently, it looks as if it is lifted straight out of Zoopla by Zoopla containing stats only a company receiving timed data feeds would be able to analyse. I can’t see how you could piece together that report from the data that Zoopla put in the public domain.
I can’t fathom how you guys have decided on the online sector as the starting point for your business, I agree it is emerging but it has been emerging for 16 years. In the same time retail sales have been decimated by online competition not a single service sector I can think of has even been dented by online competition. I mentioned car servicing yesterday because that is the best analogy to prove the point to people who think Estate Agency is like selling cars and Estate Agents are like second hand car salesmen.
I like and respect your defence of your business but you really have backed the wrong horse; a service industry that is fighting for market share based on price rather than service. If the traditional agency sector can be motivated to close down the authorised phishing and resale of its data the online competition will cease virtually overnight.
Anyone can put on a suit, turn up, smile and blag an instruction with charm based on pre-prepared advise on value gleaned from the internet especially at unsustainable fee levels. That is not Estate Agency, it is not service and has nothing at all to do with the stress free best deal for the customer ethos you are reportedly trying to promote.
Thanks, I appreciate the comment. I can assure you the raw data is on Zoopla and they did not supply a feed of any sort. In terms of whether online agency has a future or not, I personally believe it does, although as to exactly how the model will evolve, time will tell.
On Zoopla public domain or on Zoopla all? If it is Zoopla public, very well done to you! ( I can’t work out how you calculated column 4) if it is Zoopla all, some of that data is held as part of a fiduciary relationship between Zoopla and the agents, irrespective of whether the Agent actually realises such data is being transmitted to Zoopla.
Yes, Zoopla public domain.
“…we could have ordered it by a different measure, e.g. ‘what % is under offer’ but on this occasion we wanted primarily to produce a ‘state of the market’ table showing who the biggest players were.”
Why? Surely, ALL a potential homeseller wants to know is which Agent is most likely to achieve a sale for them? NOT which company have more unsold stock but look like the biggest fish in the pond!
Maybe, on reflection, you may wish to consider altering your website strapline to something along the lines of:
“The guide to property advertising lottery – where you pays yer money then you takes pot luck”.
Then you won’t have people like me on your back – will you?
I wouldn’t presume to know exactly what every home seller wants to know. However, we did think that knowing how big each agent is based on how many listings they each had would be of interest to some home sellers at least. Ideas for future metrics for upcoming research are always of interest.
“I wouldn’t presume to know exactly what every home seller wants to know.”
Are you actually reading what you type before pressing ‘Submit’?
There is ONLY ONE measure for ANY ‘sales’ discipline.
Look it up. I’m sick of giving you my time for free – especially when it’s wasted.
I disagree. I would say that the scale of an agent’s company might be an important factor to some people in determining whether they may want to hire them, especially in such a new sector where the vast majority of the companies are unknown.
What would be the important factor to YOU in making a decision which company you would “hire” to potentially sell your home, ‘sellingup’ – Agent ‘X’ with 1000 available properties on their books and nine sold, or Agent ‘Y’ who has 100 on their books but they have successfully put 55 of them Under Offer?
In your example, I would choose Agent Y. You make a valid point. Of course, conversion rate is important, that is why we showed the % under offer as well. It’s simply that in this case, we decided to order the table according the size of listings as we felt that information would be of wide interest (and we had not seen it done anywhere else before). We could, and perhaps will publish an additional version ordered by ‘% under offer’. The main reason we did not publish both tables was to avoid information overload. People can scan the table and see the % conversion figures so it is not as if they are hidden. Also, bear in mind, once you are talking about small numbers of stock, e.g. 12 for sale, % rates are not as statistically useful.
Thanks for asking, wilko. I am currently listening to some relaxing classical music.
Sorry it’s a bit late but @ sellingup “what sort of music do you like?” I know it’s not relevant but it was the only question that no one had asked about you today! Joking aside, thanks for all your comments today.
Funny how Zoopla and Purple Bricks have the same purple colour theme, and how they could make a great alliance in the future by jointing forces as one company, leaving many other online agents and high street estate agents, out to dry.
Just a last thought of the day.
Maybe ‘Onthemarket.com’ is worth looking at then?
Why ,becuase they both picked purple… perhaps we should watch out for the future merger of Countrywide and Rightmove , both of which have an I and a T in them…. ITS A CONSPIRACY PEOPLE …BUILD YOUR NUCLEAR BUNKERS …THEYRE ALL ALIENS
Danny who set-up RM in the beginning?
Answer: Countrywide was a founder.
Danny was still at school when rightmove started
Here is you first lesson Danny
Learn to use the internet. HAHAHA
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rightmove
Here is your first lesson Danny
(I do have an excuse I’m dyslexic)
I’m surprised Purplebricks isn’t called ‘Phoenix Estate Agents’, myself 🙂
Paul. I don’t take that as rude, and the answer is no, I am not an estate agent.
What sort of car have you got?
Better still what sort of car do you think all those wealthy investors drive or are Chauffeured in?
Presumably very expensive cars, which does suggest they know a thing or two about making money.
Where do you think they go to service those cars? main dealer or back street billy and his videojug instructions on how to service any make of car with spares he can get off Ebay?
Ooooh! Check mate in two moves Robert! Sellingup give up, he’s got you.
cheers mate, looks like he has, pity. That was a real opportunity to engage with a profession that in general promotes the stereotype of Agents being spivs and chancers.
The reason these highly successful business people invest in online agents is because they think it will make them a return on their investment – in other words they think the industry has a future. Whether or nor they personally would choose to use one seems to be irrelevant.
Do you know or understand why corporate estate agency has only gained a transient 20% market share in 30 years and online agency 2% in 16 years. Bear in mind corporate agency has include wealthier investors than your list of business men, They have failed in the sector. Prudential, Black Horse, Woolwich, Halifax all failed at Estae Agency if you or the people you are betting your shirt on understood why, you and they would not be so confident about the future.
I should explain that I am not ‘betting my shirt’ on online agency. At this stage, we are simply offering customers a way to evaluate companies and compare prices should they be interested in using one (along with other tools which we are developing, including stuff to help people choose high st agents you may be pleased to learn). As to how the market evolves I am interested that you are so confident in your predictions. I wouldn’t claim to know with such certainty how the estate agency market will look in 5 or 10 years. One thing I do expect is that there will be some changes, although the exact nature remains to be been.
or, indeed, remains to be seen.
The reason I am so certain, this really is my specialist subject and the stuff the industry is using as cutting edge right now is stuff I was working on in 2001. The most up to date tech is stuff I spec’d out in 2004!
I am confident because those wealthy entrepreneurs all made their wads from retail businesses. Estate Agency is a service industry more akin to the service department of a car dealership than it’s forecourt sales. To take online agency to the point where negotiator level area reps can offer the professionalism and expertise of 10 or so locally owned business is a pipedream founded on nothing more than hope. Online agency might work were the anonymity of city living levels the service playing field but that really is the only opportunity for growth. Only when the online business recognise the genuine costs of service will the make a profit. Back to Purplebrick- I ran the numbers they need to list 309,000 properties each year to break even at the claimed level of service.
I really have no time for anyone or any business that is built on false claim or deception and I am surprised as journalist you condone such deceptions! If you don’t believe me call Purblebricks after 10 pm and before 8 am or try to book an appointment outside core working hours. You will get to speak to someone on the phone but they are not as the PB website claims Estate Agency trained.
I certainly don’t condone deception and I take issue with you writing that. I am not here to defend Purplebricks at all. I would need to look closely at their claims and then test them to form a judgement.
Here is the confusion either your report is as you claim independent research or it is a data report lifted straight out of Zoopla with no research as to whether the firms are passive intermediaries or Estate Agents. You could do the same report for traditional agency and show that Countrywide is top dog purely based on the numbers of property listed. That wouldn’t reflect what happens locally or form any guide to prospective vendors on who to instruct. You can take issue with my thinking you are condoning the misleading and deceitful marketing of Purplebricks but if the copy you admit to preparing and the apparent lack of basic research gives that impression I suggest you have a very stern word with yourself.
Robert, the research was into stock listing levels of online agents on Zoopla, I don’t see how that could cause you confusion.
You ask if we looked into: “as to whether the firms are passive intermediaries or Estate Agents”. No, we do not make that distinction, we included companies that self-identified as online estate agents, and they have all been accepted by Zoopla as estate agents. Perhaps you need to take up your complaint with Zoopla if you don’t think they deserve the title ‘estate agent’. According to your definition of condoning, does ITV ‘condone’ them because they show a Purplebricks advert, or does the Daily Telegraph ‘condone’ them when they mention them in a news story? I find your logic quite odd.
Not sure I care to answer that question.
that is why I de personalised it.
Robert, you said you where just “an interested house seller” at the top of this article, but then go onto give precise knowledge of the market since 2002… what exactly is it you do…
I don’t think I said ‘just’ but right now I am selling a property which has been rented out and neither of the children want to live in.
My detailed rather than precise knowledge of the industry goes back to 1986 when I helped with one of the first dumb terminal software systems for agency. I ended up as Sales Director for CFP software with close to half the UK PRS market. Since 2009 I have been consulting on a number of tech projects and posting a bit on EAT & EYE while I wait for the techies and the Industry to catch up. We are just about ready for Generation 5 which will be good for traditional agency (with and without offices) and not so good for the PI end of the sector.
How would I know likely market value? I could try to get an idea by tracking other similar properties in the area, on the portals, that come up for sale and see what the asking prices are. If you do that for several weeks or preferably months you should get a fair idea. Chatting to local people, neighbours etc. who are selling can be helpful.
I might ask some local estate agents to give valuations too. In my experience estate agents can give decent valuations but they can’t predict for sure what it will go for. On my last sale the three agent valuations varied by £80,000. The price achieved was at the lower end but that was probably because the market moved down and the agents were still behaving like it was at the peak.
I would generally advise sellers to get as much info as possible and see how confident they feel and then list it a little higher than they they think is a fair selling price, to give the buyer a bit of room to negotiate you down so everyone is happy.
Selling up…Genuinely not being rude but have you or any one working there worked in agency before?
Also let’s just say that us High Street agents disappeared tomorrow, and you could’nt get them round to value your property, how confident would you be in your valuation?
I may be less confident in some circumstances, but then if there were no high st agents everyone else would be in the same boat anyway. Prices would likely be quite random and all over the place so the market would eventually sort it out somehow.
Please don’t get the impression we are anti-high street estate agents, we are not. They can provide an excellent and needed service. I believe there is room for other models too depending on the particular seller’s preferences and needs.
“Prices would likely be quite random and all over the place so the market would eventually sort it out somehow.”…My concern would be the fall out and the likely ‘wild west’ scenario that would ensue, this is why around 2% of sellers still wish to use a high street locally based agent. I acknowledge that there are many DIY sellers out there, but the numbers do not appear to be growing and this is a point that many commentators just don’t seem to understand or acknowledge.
Oops typo should be “this is why around 98% of sellers still wish to use a high street locally based agent.
I would be very surprised if high street agents disappeared just because they had some online competitors with a slightly different offering. The same way paper books still get printed even though ebooks are popular. I suspect there may be an adjustment in market share which will settle at its natural point eventually according to what services the customers want to buy and at what price.
“Please don’t get the impression we are anti-high street estate agents, we are not”
Well you can sing that song all you like – but that is certainly not the impression that your website gives the viewer.
Pee Bee “certainly not the impression that your website gives the viewer.”. I agree but that , as the nice man explained, is because he hasn’t done any high street tool thingamyjigs yet. He is going to invent some tools for us which will be nice won’t it. Then we can have some banners on his site which is exciting news, don’t you think? His articles (I speed read them because they were a tad long) were fairly balanced, to be fair.
Now, what did his website do Pee Bee, not sure anyone has discussed that today?
Yes Peebee, Wilko is correct. At the moment it does look weighted towards online agency as that is the new tool we are proud of and keen to promote. In time the site will broaden and contain lots of consumer-driven bits and pieces relating to the high st as well. Indeed, when the time is right you will be very welcome to advertise!
“…have you or any one working there worked in agency before?”
Paul H – in REAL-SPEAK the answer to your query to ‘sellingup’ is as per this quote from their website:
“Selling Up was founded by team of web publishers and journalists who have successfully sold several properties in recent years at significant profit.”
Says it all, really…
“Selling Up was founded by team of web publishers and journalists who have successfully sold several properties in recent years at significant profit.”…Experts then!
That is brilliant…..I wonder how significant the profits were?
If there is a specific thing we have written here or on the website that you disagree with, please comment on that and I am happy to discuss it. To disparage our credentials at face value doesn’t mean too much in my book.
” so it might come down to how confident I felt that I knew the likely market value.”…Yes but how would you know that?
Paul. That would depend on where the property was located, what the value was, what the potential savings would be and also how much time I had available to do some of the work myself (e.g. conduct viewings). I can certainly see cases where I would use an online agent and cases where I would use the high street. Interestingly, the greater the value of the property, the more the saving you are likely to make with a fixed fee online agent – although if they get the valuation too low you have more to lose, so it might come down to how confident I felt that I knew the likely market value.
Sellingup..Indeed well done for coming on and facing the gauntlet. Can I ask if you were someone selling their property right now, what method would you prefer, (online or high Street) and if so why?
Moving off Purplebrick, here is another one for you. Hatched claim to sell a property for £***, Mr Day boasted ( EAT Autumn 2013) that isn’t what he earns he gets at least double that ( or words to that effect) when you picked this particular niche sector to report on did you wonder how they can operate nationally for claimed fees 10% of the national average?
Have you stopped to do the mathematics of Agency and wondered with only office costs saved but a heavier marketing commitment to make up for their lack of subliminal presence how these firms can operate profitablty at their advertised rates. I have- the answer is they can’t. That is why this sector is always desperate for investment. In 16 years this sector is still not capable of organic growth and self investment.
Robert. If you are asking me do I think the current online agency business model is sustainable, that is beyond my knowledge I’m afraid. You would be better off asking a City analyst or a corporate accountant.
However, some pretty smart people must do, including the founders of Carphone Warehouse (housesimple) and Poundland (estatesdirect.com), leading fund manager Neil Woodford (Purplebricks), James Caan (eMoov), Stelios (easyProperty) among others. There is probably something in it…
If you look a bit further down the stories on PIE today one of your listed greats, our favouite Oliver is begging for MORE investment!
Harry Hill who nearly ended up with Easy till I suspect he was reminded of his own analysis of the industry reckoned on 60 sales a year at 1.25% per branch. It isn’t possible to charge 0.28% and make a profit. That is why Faisal (james caans oppo) is desperate for more cash
I don’t think it is unusual for companies (of all shapes and sizes) to seek further investment, for a multitude of reasons. I am not defending eMoov’s backers, I know little about their motivations, I am just pointing out a business reality.
So the wealthy investors, who in James Caan case have been investing in the sector for some 6 years have suddenly lost the urge to invest further and reap greater rewards from this emerging and lucrative sector?
I understand what you are saying only the background history to all of this adds a slightly different perspective to what is going on. 78% of the industry is self sustaining and growing organically, 20% is in stable stagnation and 2% is burning investors cash like it was nicked and the Rozzers are on the doorstep.
Sellingup, you deserve a drink tonight mate, at least you answer comments here unlike some people, so respect for that!
Trevor, thanks. I believe in what I am doing and am happy to enter discussions.
I don’t know why you have such disdain for our website, it does seem a bit irrational. If you have a proper point to make about the report or our site in general then please do.
Oh, dear – it looks like ‘sellingup’ is one of those insecure sorts who has to ‘Like’ their own posts!
My granddaughter has a blankey for that warm fuzzy comfort feeling – but then she is only eight months old…
peebee. I don’t know who you mean by ‘bargain basement peddlars’. The price comparison is based on the fixed fees quoted on the agent sites themselves. If you have seen any discrepancies please let us know, we do our best to be 100% accurate.
“If you have seen any discrepancies please let us know”
I really don’t think so – do your own checking.
“…we do our best to be 100% accurate.”
Then you fail miserably.
Well, you accused us of inaccuracy then failed to provide an example. Of course we will keep checking anyway as we regularly do.
“DEAL eMoov’s Standard plan. For details visit eMoov. Price£474(£395+VAT”
…and from the company site:
“Standard
Our most popular option costing just £495”
That’s £495 PLUS VAT, which they conveniently forget to mention until you look at the “Total Order” figure on the right hand side (which also escalates nicely when you add in those toys that we traditional guys include in our fees…)
THERES your example. Any more – suggest you start offering me Consultancy rates.
You need one.
Hmmm… two days later and the information on your woeful “comparison table” I clearly demonstrate above as incorrect has not been amended.
Sorry – I was under the distinct impression that this facility was created by you – “the first of its kind” – to actually allow potential homesellers to find the best deal.
But of course showing the true figure would ‘moov’ Mr Quirk’s outfit down the table by two or three slots – and we Caan‘t have that… can we?
What exactly is incorrect?
ALSO, Mr/Ms ‘sellingup’ – I think you need to check your “Price Comparison” facility – it seems woefully out of touch with what the bargain-basement peddlars are actually charging as per their own websites…!
peebee. I don’t see why anything I have posted should make high street agents ‘a wee bit tetchy’. The report was simply a breakdown of what appears to be the state of the online agency market. Why would that upset a high st agent?
As to why our website doesn’t just advise people to ‘instruct a traditional Estate Agent within a 3-5 mile radius of their home.’… We are not setting out to tell people what to do. It’s a guide to your options, not an instruction manual. Nowhere on the site do we tell people to use an online agent either.
However, I do hear what you are saying about the fact that the site leans towards content about online agents, and as explained above, this is because our first tool is an online agent comparison engine (please feel free to check it out – the first of its kind) and as such much of our content has been related to that. But I am keen to do a lot more stuff about high street agencies and indeed we are launching this week a tool to find your nearest high st agent.
“It’s a guide to your options, not an instruction manual”
WHERE, then, in this so-called “guide”, do you cover in any way, shape or form, the ‘traditional’ route?
“…our first tool is an online agent comparison engine (please feel free to check it out – the first of its kind)”
See my comments above – I’m already way ahead of you.
…make that comments below
We are a fairly new site so please bear with us while we develop content, much of which will be about the ‘traditional route’. But certainly working with local agents is covered on the site, for example in our guides to negotiation and exchanging contracts and also in this blog: http://www.sellingup.com/does-size-matter-with-estate-agents
‘sellingup’ – while you are struggling to get your head round why an audience of predominantly High-Street based REAL full-service (ie not pretendy full-service…) Estate Agents might just get a wee bit tetchy over what you are posting, please explain to me why your woeful website strapline claims the site to be “The guide to property sale success” – yet you fail to advise visitors that in fact the most effective way to actually succeed is to follow in the footsteps of some 98% of other sellers and instruct a traditional Estate Agent within a 3-5 mile radius of their home.
Why would THAT be?
As we know the online only agents only take on numbers in any sort of quantity through big investment and a tv campaign yet the numbers, from what I see just don’t stack up. But a couple of points that may actually show how much Emoov and our mate Russell have taken his eye off the ball: 1) PB’s figures are based on the 2/3 regions that they currently cover, Emoov is nationwide and 2) PB charge more than Emoov and by some £175 a property.
This report is actually quite damning for Emoov !
Well, Well doesn’t this put things in a different light for all those with their heads in a bucket. If you are High Street agents these are your competitors trying to take your business away from you and many openly state they want to put you out of business. AND WHAT DO YOU DO? You support the very same outlet that is letting them do this ….. RM & Z. Wake up, for as you can see we are not talking the odd web only portal which everyone knows and sees day in and day, are inferior and often we are left with cleaning up the mess they make.
OHHHH MMMMYYYYYYY GGGGGGGODDDDDDD!
Is it possible that the RM & Z duopoly could be breaking? Are we looking at new entrants?!?!? How surprising, weren’t we all delighted to have 2 institution rule a industry they only hardly facilitate?
Attention Selling up, last week I wanted to instruct an agent so attempted to use Purplebricks- the 24 hour estate agent? (yeah right) I tried to use their 24 hour service at 4:30 am, it was effectively shut, the Live chat was switched off, the out of hours reception service genuinely know nothing about property selling and the web site through which appointment are being made won’t allow any appointment outside normal office hours. How about you independently investigate the other spurious claims made by this market sector or would that be contrary to your real aim of promoting online agency?
Robert, is that a real experience you had with Purplebricks or fabricated? If the former perhaps you should take it up with them, not us. We are only producing independent research into the marketplace. Yes, we certainly will be looking at claims made by agencies (online and high street) in future research, as our site is a consumer guide. I won’t deny we have an emphasis at the moment on covering online agency because it is a hot topic, but we are just about to launch this week a ‘find your nearest high street agent’ tool, and will do a lot more about traditional agents in the near future.
Of course it is real why do you think I would fabricate it? Purplebricks are falsly advertising a 24 hour estate agency service. As I posted last week free would be expensive!
The big observation agents are missing is that around £30m has gone into property related tech setups in the last 6 months. Easy – Purple – eMoov and others have all raised £millions that they can spend on the web which medium to small agents haven’t got…………………..Whilst 1,000 agents are reported as having left RM and 4,000 leaving/left Z, all that SEO and brand awareness built up is being used by big budget models + other web branding. In the meantime whilst the cats away, the cats having to build a new brand called OTM. Purple and Easy have both raised funds around £9-10m
As people quote most people start their search on the web, consider the above. Im not saying RM or Z are the best routes, but equally OTM needs so much more to make it work.
While looking for a company registration number to see who is behind this survey I noticed;Joining OntheMarket.com could cost estate agents 15% of their customersEstate agents that sign up to the new property portal OntheMarket.com risk losing around 15% of potential vendors according to an exclusive survey by SellingUp.com.
We wanted to know how consumers would feel about an estate agent not listing their property for sale on both Rightmove and Zoopla (there is a rule which means agents using OntheMarket.com can only be on one other portal).
There can be a lot at stake and sometimes it feels like you are on your own – especially if all your estate agent cares about is their commission.
The mission of Selling Up is to help ordinary people who are selling their property to get the very best price, pay the lowest possible fees and experience the minimal stress.
Robert, that’s a quote from our site, I don’t mind you pasting it but is there something you object to about it? Looks like a reasonable objective to me (then again, I did write it).
Re the comment above about the onthemarket.com survey, that was a different exercise, so not sure why you pasted it here. I will be happy to answer any questions you have though.
I posted it to put this independant report in context. Those few lines say so much about your understanding of the industry and the economics of the industry.
If there is something you feel is wrong/misleading etc. please explain, otherwise I’m not sure I follow you.
Tell me your understanding of the £5000 saving Purplebricks can offer the average vendor- the claim they make on their TV advert. Is that about right or is it, from your independant perspective misleading?
Firstly, I’m not here to defend or vilify Purplebricks so I’m not sure why you are trying to draw me into that, and secondly, if I was looking into the validity of their claims and the savings claims of other online agents I would do it properly, not give an off the cuff view here.
Strange, I am one of those your mission is to help. An ordinary person looking to sell a property for the minimum fee, stress etc. The people you have at the top of your list don’t operate when they claim to and the savings they claim are available to people like me aren’t. You can’t see anything wrong with that? What it suggests to me is that your analysis even of this micro niche of the Industry is woefully lacking, not at all transparent and at best unscientific.
Are any of the firms listed in your report paying to advertise on your site?
Robert. Your experience is your experience and I hope you can see that it doesn’t necessarily mean that it was shared by anyone else.
No firms listed in the report have paid for adverts, but even if they had it would be irrelevant as the table is ranked by statistics, not by preference.
So the Online promos all over your site are free?
Re the question: ‘So the Online promos all over your site are free?’, yes none of them have paid me for those slots and none have any influence over any others. If a customers uses my voucher code I would get a % but that is a bonus to the customer (they get a discount too). If you are implying the table that is being written about here is affected by adverts on the website I repeat the plain fact that the table is ordered by the data on Zoopla and not by anything else.
This looks remarkably similar to a very early property portal chart. I can see the same thing happening in this sector that happened there. I think Emoov and PB will start to buy some of their rivals in this list with continued investment.
One thing is for certain, none can be profitable at all presently, based on these numbers.
Especially considering the millions they somehow manage to persuade people to invest. I see in another story today. Ivygate are after more investment, which means they are running out of cash!
I’m not surprised that Tepilo has risen…after all the publicity in the tv show. Lets see if it sticks. The others will make some gains whilst there is an easy market, see if it is the same later this year. In the meantime reconsider your own on line offering and have the vision for the long term as well as the short term. Viral marketing will be key for OTM rather than getting in a spat with the 2 well funded portals
Checks Purplebricks… Zero properties in our area. Online agents. Threatening for 15 years and counting. Still zero impact.
Yes but this year online agents will disrupt the housing market …………. zzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz
The only two things I took from this article was that online agents are a massive fraud on the public in terms of ability to sell property but a sense of delight that Emoove have in effect lost market share to Purplebricks and others; proving that perhaps Russell Quirk and that marketing director of his, who spends more time telling people he was at Motors.co.uk than his current employer, should perhaps target their press releases and campaigns less towards what is bad about in high street agents companies and more about what is positive (if anything) in his!
It is interesting that the up front cost to the vendor of being listed is not shown, nor are any month by month figures
It seems reasonable too that the total cost of selling through each of these agenies is also examined. As an example posters will remember that Adam Day would claim one fee in his adverts then boast another (over double) in his posts on EAT.
It seems they are all listed as Estate Agents, who has verified each of these firms are offering a full Agency service and are not just passive intermediary listers?
RM should check if they are Estate Agents, recently I found an agent who was not even a member of TPO, how the hell did they get on there? When I joined in 2009 that was the only requirement.
Trevor G – A passive model wouldnt need to be a member of a redress scheme under current CPR/BPR gove rules. Agents do. Thats why the iProperty model is an unlawful operative as it takes FSBO listings and generates revenue on ‘other’ ancillary services. As such its revenue model requires membership of a redress scheme which it hasnt/didnt do.
Trev, when I joined RM I asked what memberships were required, I was told only TPO, I did go ahead and join the NAEA though to have more muscle if they tried to chuck me off. It was MEGA easy to get listed with RM.
Budget fee agents excludes the ability to offer full traditional agency services. Main/sub agency as budget means there isnt enough fee in the pot………. An like tug of war…………football…………….rugby………………….fire brigade. Would you rather have the 1 outlet team, or many doing the job.
someones been drinking 😉
Need to with some of the dribble Danny 🙂
I’m sure people with a better eye than me for them will do some numbers today but good lord millions of pounds chucked at it an PB manage to get to the dizzy heights of holding as many listings as 10 or 12 real estate agency offices, someone is getting a smack in the chops on that money pit.
Nice to see our resident gob on a stick get to number 1 though, means he doesn’t have to change the drivel on his website about being number 1 when the ASA pop in a shine a torch up his jacksie……..that boy is so bent its a wonder he can walk straight, branches listed where they don’t have them, dubious calculations on customer saving and claiming to be something he’s not, gives the industry a bad name tut, tut – Jonnie
Fantastic, an online version of Where’s Wally! Where is Peter Hendry? what about Easychris, Optimhome and that really angry chap who sounded like he wanted to duff us all up?
Easychris is probably still plowing through the 60,000 expressions of interest he received prelaunch (bet he wish he never said that now!). To be fair to him they have only launched lettings not sales.
….and frankly ladies & gentleman the aforepictured table demonstrates the fragmentation of the UK Property Market, albeit in a very small way, with companies purporting to be the same as High St Estate Agents but cheaper!….. we know they are not and that there are always clients who value fees over performance. We can continue to stand at the edge of the road and gawp as our industry dribbles away or we can back OnTheMarket as OUR UK PROPERTY PORTAL and take it to No1 spot, in time. Zoopla and Rightmove are embracing this disparate band of Hot Dog Layby Prop Property Listers!….. so, why there are any fence-sitters re joining/backing OTM mystifies me….. would you prefer to see our industry being flushed down the toilet?
GPL, I asked my Rightmove rep about this and why they allowed these guys to advertise. Her reply was quite interesting. Basically those onliners doing not much different from the bargain basement high St agents cant be banned, its anti-competitive and they would probably get sued….and lose Interestingly , the same applies to OTM apparently . If (massive if ) they get to any significant size the rules they are currently enforcing (one other portal, no online) become illegal under competition law and would have to be dropped. I suggest you check with your AM rep before you blame RM and Z (who arent my best friends BTW) for “getting into bed” with someone….its just UK competition law… thats all
I’m no barrister, but my understanding is that AM / OTM is a “mutual” and can choose to do business with whoever it likes.
That is correct, I think Danny is referring to LTD or PLC businesses, not mutual organisations.
You cant just be a mutual and just do what you like,you have to abide by the law of the land, imagine if Tesco,Asda,Waitrose Et all set up a “shopping mutual” and said you cant buy beans under £5 . Its anti competitive and against the law, the same applies…
You cant just be a mutual and do what you like,you have to abide by the law of the land, imagine if Tesco,Asda,Waitrose Et all set up a “shopping mutual” and said you cant buy beans under £5 . Its anti competitive and against the law, the same applies…
No its not, your talking nonsense. The member has the choice to join or not. As mutual, the organisation can stipulate rules for members to abide by. Please don’t quote the law when you do not know what you are talking about, that’s a god fellow.
God fellow.. You hold me in some esteem, thank you. So tell me then , I’m going to give you an extreme example . The membership votes for no irish people, no black people and no women …. It’s ok is it …. It’s a mutual …. Dafty… I read law. Why don’t you check with your AM rep … There’s a good fellow
Surprised to see estatesdirect on 186 properties after poundland founder became an investor. It seems that really the only way to get listings is by being on TV. I can’t imagine there is much left in the pot after TV and RM fees.
1670 properties divided by 50 then multiplied by approximately £700, that’s what they must be paying RM.
£23,100 pcm. (Online calc hehe).
Isn’t Express an online agent then. Just had a look, they have 3700 properties according to Zoopla….no I don’t work for them, I’m just saying
Good point they are massive.
We decided not to include Express Estate Agency because despite appearances they don’t actually seem to operate as a typical online estate agent. Their website doesn’t have any way to ‘buy’ a package directly (you have to phone up) and they don’t publish prices or commission fees.
In fact, the only thing they have in common with most online agents is that they don’t have local branches and they don’t conduct the viewings.
The ethos of online agents is usually about a low fixed fee, payable online, and while it is definitely a fine line, on balance we didn’t feel Express qualified.
Our industry needs to start putting things in the right boxes. Be it an agent is in a Hg St office or in an out the way location 99.9% are online……………… The big differentiator is?? Is an agent a budget model or NOT