by Nick Salmon, managing director of Property Industry Eye
The Property Industry Eye independent portal price survey – which we analysed over the last two days – contained a section for making comments, and we were braced for some vociferous views.
Passionate views did indeed shine through the responses, but happily there were only a tiny proportion that could be considered unprintable.
The sentiments expressed covered several broad themes:
There were those who dislike or even loathe the existing portals; and some with a good word to say about them.
There were many who feel they pay the portals far too much money; and a few who believe they receive good value from them.
There were those who welcome OnTheMarket; those undecided; and those who believe it will fail.
FEES FAIL TO FIND FAVOUR
The survey set out to shed light on how much agents are being charged to advertise on the portals. Existing portal pricing certainly had emotions running high:
“Exorbitant fees.”
“Ridiculously expensive!”
“Massively overpriced.”
“Eye-wateringly expensive.”
“Being ripped off!”
Just one agent begged to differ:
“I seem to be in a minority, but for what they do for me I think they are very good value…”
One cannot help noticing the irony in agents’ discontented comments on portal charges. They mirror consumer comments when asked about agents’ fees. But then, equating price and value is always a subjective judgement.
KEEPING THE CUSTOMER SATISFIED – OR NOT
The satisfaction of a customer in a transaction is not only about the goods and services purchased. It is also about the ‘feel’ of their relationship with the supplier.
Agents as customers of the portals made it clear in their survey comments that while the portals may deliver the goods, their perceived attitude towards agents falls far short of being satisfactory.
It was notable how many times the word ‘arrogance’ popped up.
“The major portals have forgotten who their customers are. We are now a means to an end (to make money); this is regularly shown in their disregard for High Street agents.”
“I took a stand against their exploitation of the people who helped build their business (i.e. estate agents) and cancelled my subscription.”
“Consistent arrogance to their subscribers, particularly during recession.”
“They are driven by shareholders’ hunger for increase in revenue, and their rates each year outstrip inflation.”
“I abhor the ‘smoke & mirrors’ pricing policy.”
“Fed up with being held to ransom.”
“An arrogant attitude toward their customers.”
“All the major portals fail to recognise that there are smaller agencies in the mix.”
“The arrogance of the company is the sole reason I decided to boycott them…”
“They just aren’t interested and have an arrogant ‘they need us more than we need them’ attitude towards me.”
“They have me by the short & curlies.”
We could find only two comments that in any way praised the portals:
“Great back-office service.”
“I am also happy…”
However, while many agents may not like the position they find themselves in, there is some reticence about leaving:
“We feel that we have little alternative.”
“I wish we could leave.”
“We would leave at the drop of a hat if they weren’t currently so strong in this area.”
“Whilst we may feel disposed to favour another portal we feel compelled to maintain a presence.”
“Would love to have the courage to ditch…”
AGENTS’ MUTUAL – YES, NO, MAYBE?
In the survey we included questions about whether agents have committed to Agents’ Mutual / OnTheMarket. A few people queried why we had done this, suggesting that it meant AM/OTM had commissioned or paid for the survey. Neither is true.
We were not asked by anyone to carry out the survey, nor is anyone paying us to do it. If you sometimes wonder why we carry articles relating to AM/OTM, it is simply that they are the story of the moment.
Not since the Sellers’ Pack / HIPs saga has there been an issue in the industry that has caused such heated debate and polarisation of views as the emergence of Agents’ Mutual.
Would the issue of portal pricing have gained such widespread comment if they had not come on the scene? Probably not.
Agents would have continued to grumble about how much they were being charged but would have been highly unlikely to come together in significant numbers to give themselves bargaining power with the existing portals.
But with AM acting as the catalyst, the issue of portal pricing is now centre stage. Only the debates about online agents come anywhere near to it for lighting up the pages of Eye.
Unsurprisingly, comments concerning Agents’ Mutual/ OnTheMarket ranged from the dismissive to the supportive.
The sceptics voiced their opinions:
“I think there’s too much optimism and excitement about the launch of OnTheMarket.”
“I feel OnTheMarket will be a massive failure.”
“Perhaps they would get more interest if they were not expecting a 5-year buy-in.”
“I don’t believe OTM will succeed as it will take years to get the public to acknowledge it…”
“Agents’ Mutual is a recipe for disaster.”
Then there were the undecided:
“Wishing OTM well but need to see it gain momentum before deciding whether to join/stick with existing.”
“Letter of intent signed but not sure if we will commit; this depends on strategy of other agents.”
“Verdict is out … first they have to prove themselves.”
“Waiting to see how much OTM’s normal rates are.”
“I’m undecided on Agents Mutual and won’t commit to anything.”
Some support for OTM was unequivocal:
“This will hopefully shake the whole market like nothing else.”
“I hope that OnTheMarket is a roaring success.”
“Long term view … list only with OnTheMarket”
“Looking forward to the launch and wishing all concerned the best of luck.”
“I hope OnTheMarket blows them out of the water as I can’t wait to ditch every/any other portal.”
2015 will see changes of the greatest significance to the portals, agents and consumers, but for one agent the months of strident debating are clearly proving unbearable.
We imagine that many might empathise with their comment:
“Seriously thinking of closing and moving to Tenerife.”
Comments (44)
Digital Expert, Autotrader didn't fold, the mag was stopped- whilst still turning a healthy profit – to focus on digital. Local press has a viable role to play. Be a digital expert by all means, but you are not a media strategy expert.
Those on the outside just dont get it. Life and business is not just about analysing pricing and return. There are other factors that keep customer loyalty and retention. If you sell a product to a client who comes back for more 6 months or a year later and the price has gone up by 20%, are they going to question it? What if you are recommended to a relative and you quote them 50% higher? And what if the price increases happen year after year. I know my clients would soon be ex-clients and wouldnt be recommending me. Feeling mugged is not a good feeling in business.
I certainly wouldn't be to happy if my marketing went up with no good reason, I would question them on everything. But, on the other side of it; if I were selling properties which were going up year on year and I then would take an increasing financial cut of this, so would I then reject the portals that more than likely have put to buyer in contact with me. If it costs me £1 to make £.90, then perhaps I may consider a change, if it costs me £1 to make £2. Then I'm doubling my money, so works for me.
First timer- rather make £2 for 50p personally and quadruple my money.
… and on Miles Shipside of Rightmove… his Newsletter comment, that I have just READ! "We recently listened to over 1500 Rightmove phone leads and in just a fifth of cases was the enquirer asked if they had a property to sell"… really Miles?!… I detest someone acting as if they are my employer!… who actually runs a website… who isn't at the coal face!… who frankly shouldn't be listening into calls generated by business which I place there!… however before I burst a blood vessel at your audacity to lecture estate agents I'll sign off with this short statement! LOOK AT YOUR CUSTOMERS WHO PAY THEIR MONTHLY FEES, LOOK AT THE LEVEL OF DISCONTENT, LOOK AT YOUR COMPANY'S SHEER ARROGANCE!… FIRST!!!! THEN ADDRESS YOUR COSTS!… THEN COME BACK TO US WITH AN APOLOGY AND EXPLANATION! THEN UNDERSTAND THE ARRIVAL, SUPPORT & LAUNCH OF AGENTS MUTUAL & OnTheMarket.com!
Seriously, just cancel your RM membership and go on holiday. Put your money where your mouth is.
My betting is you'll still be there this time next year.
Noone's making you advertise with them. The sheer audacity at you paying to advertise your products, then selling products. Honestly.
Cancel RM & Z, enjoy the OTM avalanche of leads. Shipside won't be able to hear them then…nor will anyone for that matter.
Digital Expert/Duopoly Employee or Hopeful Employee for short? I have cancelled Zoopla and I have a monthly contract with RM which I will be cancelling in the New Year!…. and to demonstrate the arrogance of RM?… when I phoned yesterday to confirm the cancellation process the startled but very helpful young lady gave me the brief info including where to email!…. I do hope Miles Shipside listened to that telephone conversation!… 9 Years of income ending with a 1 Minute Phone Call…. keep those phones ringing I say!… at least Vodafone bent over backwards to keep my phone contract!… with RM I'm the one who has been bent over backwards!…. and you know the rest… don't you?…. because you are a digital expert?…. 1 finger or 2?… can you see! lol
Aah – You'll be able to count the fingers on the hands of your delighted vendors in the new year, no doubt. No RM & no Z, your marketing will be wonderous.
The arrogance of RM was that a polite lady accepted your cancellation? The horror!
I wish you luck, or a lottery win, you're going to need it.
This is going to be Jolly… although I only play with real estate agents NOT pretend ones. Best join the queue for redundant techie folk…. that computer sitting in my window has never sold 1 single house, nor the 1 sitting by that telephone…. damn those humans!…. they just are so clever! lol. Keep counting those fingers!…. it's how it all started!
I recorded this for you DE… "Good Afternoon…ArroganceMove… how can I help… myself!"
Are you on a retainer DE or do you get rewarded per post or per 'like'? Asking for a friend.
Some of these remarks make me laugh. It's clear that many either have very little idea of what portals provide, and for great value. Reading the survey results, it clearly seems Zoopla have as a whole, substantially lower fees. Most agents (not necessarily all) could sell 1 or 2 houses though a portal, and the commission will cover there membership fee for a whole year – how is this not value for money???
As for portals failing to recognise that there are smaller agencies in the mix. My understanding is, membership rates vary on them depending on size of business, location and even stock??? Surely a central London agent with good stock vs one in the Scottish highlands with low stock isn't going to be charged the same. Question to ask your RM/Zoopla rep perhaps!
Bravo. At last.
Come on first time buyer don't leave me in suspense "agents have either….." You can't leave your audience on a cliff edge waiting for your pearls of wisdom?! This is your moment, for once in your life people are listening to you, you are not being put down, others are not laughing at you, this is it, step up to the moment and finish your sentence…..Either have very little idea ….OR?
I'm not sure anyone has a clue what you're talking about, RA.
Try following the words with your finger – it makes it a bit easier to understand the big words 🙂
Unless you are in touch with them DE I would say thats just you, but thanks for interrupting your game on Xbox 1 to comment though.
*Sigh*
Seasons greetings x
Comment made me smile at least.
Is a username such as '1stTimeBuyer' designed to put those of us who can smell a portal employee at 50 feet off the scent?
And there was I wondering the same of you (and selected others, no names). Nice to see someone other than the mrs is interested in me for a change! Unsurprisingly, I am in fact a 1st time buyer, well, not quite yet but working on it at the present time. Between the internet and friends educating me in the world of property, and my interest the stocks & shares, I have gained a keen interest, so both go hand in hand – and yes, I have shares in both RM & Zoopla, among others…
Brilliant! A RM/Zoopla shareholder posting on here!!!!!
Just picking up on positive comments re Local Newspaper Advertising and its benefits or dead debate. After almost 30 Years as an Estate Agent my local newspaper still has a role to play and features in my annual marketing budget, alongside community magazines, online advertising, for sale boards etc. I use the Local Press to highlight properties which can be lost online… it still works well although you have to monitor public holidays/school breaks etc. My paper is part of the Trinity Mirror Group and I found they offered huge support during the darkest recession times on pro-active ad rates and they remain good value today. A resurgence in Local Newspaper Ads would be positive in my view fir High Street Agents within their communities/towns etc… alongside the other forms of marketing we use. Don't ignore the benefits of your Local Newspapers just because The Duopoly tell you they are dead!…. nonsense!!…. Local Newspapers have a positive role to play within the Estate Agency Industry!
Support? Or dropped their trousers on rate because of the sudden and permanent decline on advertising spend for an anachronistic media?
No, they just got real and realised they don't have the monopoly they used to enjoy in the 80s, 90s and early 00s and can't charge accordingly.
…. and there we have it folks! Lord Lucan is in fact Digital Expert!….. hiding away for all those years! lol
It's good to know The Duopoly employ folk like Lord Lucan.. oops!… Digital Expert to post on these forums… yet more Duopoly Member Fees being wasted!….. pen anyone?, calender anyone?, balloon anyone?…. redundant digital expert?…. anyone?!?? lol
I'm actually employed by a group of estate agents to manage their marketing, digital & otherwise.
I might even work for you. 🙂
On and on goes the debate. Nick is quite right – it is just like HIPs all over again. AS I remember he never held any strong views on that subject!! Interestingly it seems the local press are now getting involved in the promotion of OTM with some enthusiasm. They, like many agents, see Rightmove (Z is really a non entity around here) as a major threat to their advertising revenue. At least with OTM they won't see 70% profits coming out of the advertising budgets and hopefully some of this will move back into the local property sections of the newspapers. We all seem to think that the local press have had their day but they might just be a very useful white knight for OTM. In this part of the country (Essex) the local papers still play a major role with the larger agents taking up to 2 full pages per office. We no longer advertise to sell (I think we all stopped that years ago) but the local property section is still very important for market share. There are of course no internet only agents in sight! Most agents have very good working relationships with their local press and anyone looking to ditch the old has beens (RM and Z) should make sure they get them on board. You may well be surprised to find out how helpful and positive they will be.
I think you are bang on the money with that comment. Sometimes estate agents forget that they are fundamentally local businesses. Local papers may well be going through rationalisation and redefining of their business models, but in the main there is still an appetite for local news and its extremely sensible to have a foot in both camps.
If any of you believe newspapers are the future, or even the present solution to your customers requirements, then I worry for you.
If you wanted to buy a car would you look in a newspaper paper? Washing Machine? Wardrobe? No. You'd go online.
Same with people looking for a house.
Some of you are complaining about the 'spiralling cost' of the quantifiable and mighty return of the portals, yet £1800 in a local newspaper will be the 'white knight' of OTM?
Oh dear, oh dear, oh dear.
Local press newspaper groups are folding all over the UK, AutoTrader folded, Yellow Pages folded etc etc etc. It's a dead advertising medium. Ask yourself honestly – when was the last time you bought anything from a newspaper? Why would you?
Maybe the sellers might like to see their house in print, but it won't sell it, and they buyers won't find it there.
Have you read the comments? All have said unequivocally that news media is for impressing vendors, not one has stated that they advertise in newspapers to sell houses. I think we all agree with this.
No 'digital expert' will ever get their head around the fact that agents use newspapers, magazines, leaflets to persuade local people to give them their instruction and not to see houses. This simply doesn't compute in the online world. If online was so good, why are newspapers full of supermarket adverts?
Cheap, compared to their multimillion £ TV advertising.
The way that agents advertise in newspapers is rubbish – listing properties as an attempt to lure buyers? NO – it is done to show property owners that this estate agent deals with your type of house Mr Property Owner. What a screaming waste of money. In my area that costs £1,800 per month (2 pages a week – coz that's what everyone does). Rightmove charges 3 times what Zoopla does. Surely, the correct thing for me to do as a business is to drop the newspaper (which I have – over a year ago) and bin Rightmove (which I haven't). My big problem is that their sales guy came in and proudly told me that most of my competitors were going to join and they were ALL going to drop Zoopla. So I would be the odd one out and all the agents would say "You do know he's not on Rightmove?" when I go on valuations. Worse still OTM want to charge me more than Zoopla!
£1800 to have your company details dropped into someones living room, what's that one, maybe two instructions, in your area? Marketing is about coverage and not putting all of your eggs in one basket. In terms of your portal selection, you haven't GOT to go onto OTM or in fact do anything your competitors do, it is up to you as a business to decide what works for you or like me, who has decided to back OTM and am doing so because I want the opportunity of ensuring my portal provider has their interests more in line with my own as opposed to their own commercial ones.
" However, while many agents may not like the position they find themselves in, there is some reticence about leaving:
“We feel that we have little alternative.”
“I wish we could leave.”
“We would leave at the drop of a hat if they weren’t currently so strong in this area.”
“Whilst we may feel disposed to favour another portal we feel compelled to maintain a presence.”
“Would love to have the courage to ditch…” "
I was worried about dropping Rightmove, but after having enough of them I decided to email/speak with my vendors and explain the situation. They were all more than supportive and backed me with my decision to leave. There was only one chap who wasn't convinced until I pointed out that all the viewing leads we'd had up to that point had actually come from Zoopla. Don't let them have you over a barrel if you're not happy.
It is fair to say I did smile when I saw how many articles were about OTM this morning. I'm sure they could have been condensed a bit. However it is fair to say that there isn't a bigger story within the industry right now and the level of comment that these stories draw do perhaps show that there are an awful lot of strong feelings about the subject. I for one find it all quite addictive!
Just one more thing…No bigger story I agree, and yet EAT don't have it. I guess PIE (and that's an unfortunate acronym btw) just have better journalistic connections.
Probably in the same way that The Times tends to get pro Tory stories first I suspect. It is interesting that EAT don't have it I agree. You would have thought that they would at least have had the release on the Bronze membership, decided not to run it perhaps?
EAT have zero articles on AM today. PIE has 3.
Who shouted 'mouthpiece'? own up! Quiet at the back or I'll send you to Mr Springett…ahem…I mean the Headmaster. 😉
Really? 3 agents mutual articles on one day; clearly designed to drive up membership to PIE's main sponsor in the week's leading up to launch. Why do so many agents not see the irony of their hatred of the portals and conviction that they, the customer, are so hard done by. I am paying around 50% on portal advertising than I used to on press advertising – which I dropped when things went bad a few years ago. I look around me at those who continue to spend lavishly on press adverts that do very little for their businesses and hear their complaining about the abuse of the portals. They in turn are prepared to shaft their own customers in the New Year by removing their property from one of the sources of advertising that actually works. The funniest thing is that my local group are talking about pumping more money into their local newspaper to help lessen the impact of dropping Right move (agents in my area have at least managed to see sense and get together to drop the worst portal offender). Its shameful really, but at least I can look forward to a New Year with lots of opportunity. I have had a real issue with the NAEA all along for this – they are leading a significant proportion of their members down a non-sensical path that can only result in the reputation of agents being worsened.
So on the one hand you berate agents for wishing to advertise their properties on a new portal, that will launch to the market with a fanfare of interest for them and their sellers, but then on the second, you are at praising for their choice of which portal to dispense with. That makes sense…….if you work for Zoopla.
I predicted a while back local papers could benefit from agents moving from a major to a (for the moment) minor player. Local press is recognised and generally trusted by sellers, so it makes sense.
I had a very interesting train ride in Yorkshire listening to a regional manager from a well known chain of top end Yorkshire agents holding court to a (frankly bored looking) pair of acquaintances on how he and other local agents had just met with and told the local press what their ad terms were going to be. Whatever his macho posturing, these agents at least considered local press to have value. The fact he had bigger audience talking loudly in a train carriage than he would using most local press is a different subject….
Oh good lord. Now PIE writes an article not even about AM, but about the COMMENTS about AM. I will be making no further comments on this "article," and I hope others will join me in my boycott.