I do not think I need to restate the scene with regard to the current debate about Rightmove.
They have, through the arrogance of their belief in the supremacy of their brand and subsequent price rises, managed to alienate agents of all sizes.
The crucial point is I think to consider where the real power lies.
If a patient on a life support machine either gets better (goes elsewhere) or dies (definitely goes elsewhere!) then there is no need for the life support machine.
Rightmove have promoted the ‘you can’t live without us’ scenario on agents to justify their pricing policy.
However, as with all consumers the power lies with us, the customer, to decide where we spend our money.
Despite their enormous digital presence, their almost ‘Hoover’ like word association with property searches and their phenomenal spending power – Rightmove are literally meaningless without agents posting property on the site.
They have nothing else to offer.
With that in mind I believe that the discussion going around the industry of either challenging Rightmove through legal channels or holding impromptu ‘strikes’ is missing the main target.
I am not for one minute advocating that agents break their contractual obligations. However, if there was a general view across our industry for agents to withdraw from Rightmove, then one of two things might happen.
Firstly, given that Rightmove is entirely beholden to its shareholders, then any jitters about business levels would lead to some panic over what remain (despite adjustments) over-priced Rightmove shares.
It might begin to dawn on those shareholders that there is no default position for Rightmove – i.e. they don’t sell or produce anything else.
Once that type of message begins to spread then it will only grow in momentum.
The second scenario is that Rightmove might of course backtrack on their price hikes in light of the threat of agents withdrawing their support.
That may have a similar effect on shares: investors have got used to an ever increasing dividend, and any faltering will see a sale of shares with commensurate drop in value.
To make this happen only one thing needs to happen – the mass withdrawal of property postings by agents across the country.
Of course no one wants to be the first to say ‘I am Spartacus’ for fear of being the only one in their relevant patch to do so.
That in essence is Rightmove’s only power – but it is power that is not in their control.
Each and every agent in the country can choose to leave or stay, and there is absolutely nothing Rightmove can do about it.
So, the whistle is about to be blown and who will be the first out of the trenches?
I have senior branch managers in my firm who are prepared to do so.
I have had conversations with regional firms of a similar size to mine who are also considering this option. On a local basis some really good independents seem to have a similar mind-set.
Having missed the opportunity when the interest first emerged, I believe that we have a second chance to reset the balance of power.
Whether you choose OnTheMarket or Zoopla is not the point.
The point here is that once agency as a whole has shown its teeth, no major portal – including Rightmove – would be able to hold the industry to ransom again.
It just takes some nerve and industry commitment to make this happen.
* Quintyn Howard-Evans is senior managing partner at west country-based Cooper and Tanner. Opinion pieces are regularly published by EYE and represent solely the views of the contributors.
Comments (114)
Simple…these comments need to be filled with “I’ve left Rightmove” and then the ball starts to roll and pick up momentum. Even a Whatsapp or Facebook round robin dedicated to leaving the beast could work. 750,000 people marched this weekend because they managed to coordinate to meet on Park Lane…can estate agents really not manage to coordinate the “Leave Rightmove”?
Hi All
Question: How many of the hundreds of smaller agents which have gone to the wall over the last couple of years may have had at least a fair chance of surviving, had their RM charges been more allied to the size and stock of their business?
Answer: Probably some of them, as I suspect many have their RM subscription as the largest business expense by far, particularly if they work in a location where premises costs are very low or they work in a way, with no premises.
RM may well have some blood on their hands – we will never know for sure.
When this kind of behaviour happened hundreds of years ago, the perpetrators were called Highwaymen, the most famous of which was Dick Turpin!
The modern day perpetrators (or should that be perpetraitors) are a different type of business! “Stand and Deliver your subscription and the shirt off your back and ……………………”
Another pointless article.
A load of Estate Agents moaning about something they can control and won’t change. How many times have I seen these articles and how many times do I have to see the same agents moaning, spending the most on Rightmove to deliver what they’re in the business to do, make money!!!
Rightmove is a BUSINESS and BUSINESSES are about making MONEY. Just like you are, just like Doris who runs the local laundry service. Rightmove is a very successful platform and credit to them for being able to bend you over a barrel.
Love to see an article about vendors experiences with Estate Agents…………………. because haven’t you been conning them for years?
No! Agents haven’t been conning their vendors for years. That can be measured and evidenced by the number of complaints that end up in dispute resolution and litigation; case law precedent for agency is actually quite onerous.
About 1million properties transact each year and a there are now over 4.1 million residential tenancies. The number of complaints made against sales and lettings agent is a so small it has to be measured to 3 decimal places, a fraction of 1%.
There are a lot of people who do not achieve home ownership and many cannot afford to rent the home they would like, where they would like. That causes resentment and it is obvious who the easy target for the resemtment is.
There are bad estate agents out there, I track alot of their wrong doing. I know that if I can see the wrong doing so can the portals. Why aren’t the portals fulfilling their legal obligations to ensure all agents are complying with consumer and business protection regulations? Why are the portals possibly complicit and definitely condoning agents breaking the law?
All guff and nonsense I am afraid.
It won’t make a difference to the larger agents nor will it make a difference to Rightmove.
Good to vent though isn’t it.
just saying the obvious, sorry.
Over 100 comments. Agents mean business.
Rightmove days are numbered.
How deluded are you?
Wow!! Looking at all these comments, it’s clear that agents are going to rebel against the RM beast and will bring the portal down by simply removing their stock.
Oooo you’re hard.
Rightmove rep not sleeping?
No-one needs to be hard, just smarter, more honest, more trustworthy, more open, more hard working and you just added, more grown up to the list, well done!
Ex agent actually. Got out the game a long time ago because it’s full of moaners, like many on this article. Don’t like it, do something about it and stop moaning…
If your child moaned as much as you lot do, you’d put it on the naughty step or at least tell it to shut up.
Take action or get on with it!
But what now? Why you interest in these stories?
Unbelievable. All these comments from agents moaning endlessly about Rightmove as though they have no choice or free will. You choose to go on, you agree with and sign up to the fees. If you don’t like the fees…grow some and leave Rightmove. It’s like someone hitting themselves on the head with a hammer and moaning because it hurts….then doing it again, and again and still moaning…and then doing it again! It’s laughable.
You’re new here SLF aren’t you?
Yes…but not new to the industry.
In one tiny yet consistent respect UK Estate & Letting Agents do act in a “United” manner…. every working day we open our offices and switch on our lights, and at night we switch off our lights.
Imagine that switch in every office was actually a “Rightmove Portal Switch” …..and every Estate/Letting Agent flicked that switch On/Off.
Imagine it is 26 November 2018 – so called “Cyber Monday”.
At Noon until 2pm on 26/11/18 ….every/or a substantial proportion! of UK Estate/Letting Agents make their property listings “Non-Live”…. a simple display, that on certain occasions Our Industry can display a Collective Message that “We haven’t found Our Happy” with Rightmove. Just imagine?
Rightmove’s Silence is as deafening as ever. However, Our Industry’s Silence is equally deafening?
Let’s see what Iain Wilson & Co deliver in terms of their update/progress.
In the meantime, imagine….. 26/11/18 – Cyber Monday “We haven’t found Our Happy with Rightmove.
Thumbs up?
If you really want to get RM attention just leave all your listings on with them but remove every photo. Then when buyers want to see the property before they book a viewing they will have to look elsewhere.
It would take a lot of agents to do this and I suspect you might need your client’s permission but the damage it would do to RM reputation as the leading portal would be questionable beyond doubt.
I have a slingshot, some stones and a very good aim.
Consider this;
If you are paying more than £967 per office you are paying more than the average, you are subsidising your competition.
How much more than your competition are you paying? Take your monthly subscription way from £1934, that is how little one of your competition is paying for the same service you are!
Take £236 away from what you are paying each month per office. The figure you end up with is how much profit you are paying to Rightmove each month.
Divide £236 by what you are paying per branch and take that away from 1 to work out what your % profit to Rightmove is. An agent paying £1300 per month is paying 82% profit not just (rolleyes) 76%
Take £236 away from the price you have calculated your competition is paying that is their contribution to Rightmove’s profit.
If you are paying £1300, your competition is paying £634 They are contributing £398 profit compared with your £1064 contribution. You pay 82% of the profits they pay 41%
House price inflation since the crash in 2008 is 131% if Rightmove had increased its average fee per agent in line with house prices their average subs would be £304 per office per month, giving a profit margin of 29% not 76%.
Very sobering stats right there! Can we get a comment from a RM employee? We know they’re reading all these comments. Take that smirk off your face and interact with the forum. I dare you.
Up top, he all ready did!
This information is useless without factoring in different types of packages – are we talking about the basic package? The core membership fee? Sales AND Lettings? Some more information would be really helpful please.
Without access to the management accounts it is not possible to get closer than numbers that have been put in the public domain, essentially ARPA and profit margin.
The point is a simple one; an average agency paying above the average rate per agent is subsidising their competition.
If all agents were identical everyone would be paying the same.
I urge all posters & lurkers who are agents paying rightmove to remove ALL advertising for rightmove (DO IT NOW!) and reduce your exposure to the absolute basic listing possible. This has to be Stage One of any fightback plan. If this has no effect, then Stage Two has to be undertaken; partial/full removal. Just from reading the comments on this most recent post here you can see/feel the tide is turning. Slowly, but turning nonetheless. Let’s keep the momentum up.
#backtobasiconly? That sounds familiar!!
Done!
Why not start off by holding back new listings for seven days, or longer?
That way you don’t lose your presence on the portal, which most agents feel is necessary to gain instructions, and you can compare what leads the other portals, etc, can otherwise generate?
If estate agents can evidence that they still sell without Rightmove (they could before RM came along), then you would have a stronger argument with them and with vendors who assume RM is the be-all and end-all.
I took my stickers out of windows months and months ago and don’t advertise Rightmove at all. It makes absolutely no difference because the public now assume you are on it anyway. I can’t remember the last time I was asked if I was on Rightmove on a valuation. Not advertising them makes no difference at all. So I suggest giving it a go – Brand awareness and all that! Let’***** them where it hurts. I would love to come off RM for a few days but you will always get one company (every town has at least one) who will shout it from the rooftops that we have taken their properties from RM and how they never do. We are are our own worst enemy.
We are all the biggest promoters and advertisers of Rightmove. take down all the Rightmove banners from office windows and off emails etc, bump up your other websites advertising and hopefully that will make a difference.
Fingers crossesd. Lets not lose this momentum until we get RM sorted.
The only thing that can be done to really take effect is for all agents to remove their stock from Rightmove for a period of time (easily done on most systems!) This will of course be impossible to orchestrate and you’ll get the minority who think their business will collapse if they do so. All that would actually happen though, is the consumer would realise that rightmove now has nothing to offer them and they would be forced to use another medium such as OnTheMarket or Zoopla.
Simple fix in theory.
Impossible to orchestrate within the industry. I’d love to give it a go though!!
What if there was another way?…. A free to list portal that has committed to being free always? A portal that empowers agents to connect not just with local home movers, but also potential vendors and landlords over an integrated social network?
We will be launching a series of town specific pilots in the New Year where we have a majority of the local agents on board. We will be investing heavily into local marketing to “prove” the concept with these pilot schemes.
We’re not suggesting that you leave/boycott RM or the other portals, just that we can provide a zero cost and risk free way for you to grow your local network (of buyers, but also vendors and landlord) in an environment where they can see, and want to see, your listings.
Post a reply with your email if you would be interested in your town becoming one of our pilot schemes.
Not really Proper Tea & Meds
Reason: Local websites are notoriously difficult to generate large enough traffic numbers to have any impact on marketing.
Second: Local websites are not seen as high profile enough in vendors or estate agents eyes and estate agents are always looking to generate instructions (hence rightmove)
Third: I worked in recruitment for a while specialising in website based recruitment and CV generation within a vertical market and although it initially flew and really captured the defined market it was aimed at, it was fairly quickly over taken by the larger generic job boards. Why? Because they could throw a lot more at it than a small independent both technically and financially.
The lesson I learned is quite simple, don’t do what you don’t know enough about even if its a blinking good idea.
Thanks for your reply PP. We are most definitely a national site. We also have a sizeable marketing budget.
Let me throw this back at you… How was LinkedIn able to usurp those generic job boards? The Network Effect – which is much more powerful for our model versus a traditional portal.
I wholeheartedly agree with the sentiment, but I do think there are a couple of issues…
1) The scenario missing from the piece (and yet the most likely should RM’s market share and share price be substantially impacted) is that RM would move over to selling property themselves. I’m not saying this should be a reason to be afraid of withdrawing, but I think it should be acknowledged as a probable consequence if we as agents can ever work together to topple them.
2) Estate Agents have proven time and time again they are not capable of working together to achieve a common aim. There will always be a local competitor looking to gain an advantage. That said, if as a minimum the top 3 agents in every patch agreed to hold firm in the face of losing the odd listing then it could well work. In fact, I could get behind the idea of withdrawing from both RM and Z and listing with OTM only if at least the top 3 agents in our area agreed to work together.
1) won’t happen. Seriously, replace their current business plan with a FSBO site. They can only charge a seller once, or if they attempted to charge monthly listing fees how much would it be £10 or £20. (bit of a drop from the £1k a mont per office….do the maths to replace the revenue)
By the time RM have got a plan in place we would have stripped the site of all of the current stock…. give it 2 weeks of no property and the public will go elsewhere. Fickle bunch the public! They owe RM nothing! Take PB, spending more than they make, RM without our constant cash flow, would quickly spend money and the investors would not be so quick to invest.
further more, the profit margin at RM is huge, because 1 person uploads our properties! Imagine RM needing a task force to deal with unique individual client problems! Why is my house not live, why is the photo not showing, why has it not sold. Aint gunna happen! They will cash in their chips and alas “it was good whilst it lasted will be the end result” my view. Ta
I agree they are not likely to change their model under current circumstances…but the original piece speculates about scenarios should agents start leaving en masse. Under those circumstances shareholders would demand a major review of strategy.
I don’t mean they’re likely to change to a Direct listing portal either…I mean they might be likely to move over to a model similar to PB. And yes I know PB may or may not be sustainable, but RM would potentially have a huge advantage in web traffic and profile-wise were they to do this in future.
Or as you allude to, maybe they would just sell out to Silver Lake or whatever they are called.
Hi Rivero.
Their traffic is only due to stock on the shleves and thanks to us “The shelf fillers”, But for them to become the shelf filler and charge the “normal folk” and the entire picture is very different for RM.
i genuinely do not beleive RM have the ability to make any other model work.
They have the ability to launch any model for sure and the treaure chest to spend, but as the market gets harder, convincing people to part with money upfront etc will become harder and harder.
RM would do well to perhaps just play fair, accept a reset button is required.
They have a great website, I will defend them on that. The public NEED 1 portal at least with 100% of stock, or 2 where one mops up the rest of the market…. To keep their No.1 Status RM need to think quick, as dropping RM could leave OTM top for stock in many regions now.
Hi All
New here to making a comment, but have been reading many previous postings.
Having recently had a lengthy chat with our rep, I like many am absolutely fed up with the attitude by RM senior management. The reps are unable to really do much, even if they wanted to, other than pass on our concerns, which I recommend as many as possible do.
I believe that the charging structure is just plain unfair and should be based on the number of stock that each agent carries. Clearly a much larger independent or corporate agent carrying a stock 5-10-20++ times larger than a small independent should pay more, as they will earn far more from that stock and the price per lead works out pro rata at a much lower cost than a small agent with limited stock, receiving a much smaller number of leads.
This would mean that the smaller agents would be more likely to survive the difficult times and those much larger ones, who can afford to, will pay a fair subscription.
Sadly, we have all loyally supported RM over the years through good and bad times and have made it the mega-profit producing monster it has become. We have all agreed with the public that RM is vital, advertised their logos on our websites, newspaper advertising, business cards, letterheads, property details etc – by doing so, we have reinforced the public’s perception that RM is vital to everyone’s very existence.
I don’t believe that agents really want to leave RM as it is a heavily used portal, however, I believe that RM should ‘wake up and smell the coffee’ and realise that those that have made them what they are, really are extremely frustrated and angry at how they are being treated.
They either don’t realise, which I doubt, or more worryingly don’t care that at a time when things are pretty difficult, they have the power to show some empathy and rather than alienating their agent base, could really ‘earn some brownie points’ by showing willing and reassessing how they charge their agents and introduce a stepped method for their pricing structure, based on property stock.
Some other advertising media have done just that.
If there was a viable alternative, that not only the agents supported but more importantly, the public embraced too, then I am sure we would see agents leaving RM in their droves. If that were to happen, then RM would clearly suffer, and they would only have themselves to blame.
Maybe, if you guys agree that a stepped charging structure is a fairer method, and I can’t see how you couldn’t, then it may be worth a word in the ear of the reps, or send an email.
If enough people make enough noise, perhaps they will listen – perhaps not!
Have a good day.
Great first post, hope you’ll stay around (& post).
I doubt there is much in the short term that could be done to prevent, RM from competing head on with their clients and at the same time continuing to hold said agents to the terms of their contracts. We all need to think about that before shooting ourselves collectively in the foot. Best leave it to the likes of Chump Executive to chuck his franchisees’ money at the the problem for now. Pity he’s come so late to the party and didn’t get behind OTM at the outset but agents generally tend to be short termists, I guess he’s no different.
I think having a go at rightmove is a bit like complaining about the school bully.
Yes he’s big, yes he can hurt you whenever he wants, yes the teachers are aware of him but are powerless to do anything about him.
So how do you deal with a school bully?
You keep talking about OTM and Zoopla as though they are going to come in on their white horses and smite the terrible school bully.
They wont, they’re as interested in taking your business as rightmove and if at any point rightmove should actually become the worst performing site of the three, guess what OTM and Zoopla would put their prices up because after all their worth it !
No the problem is a little more fundamental, you want change. We moved from Newspapers to On line the next change might be even worse unless you get a grip and start thinking about what’s next NOW. School bully’s have always been around, you have to learn to work around them.
I am Spartacus.
…and so is my wife
If agents want to make a stand remove all properties from Rightmove in December and see what happens.
The only alternative for the moment is OTM. OTM should cap everyone’s rate at £150 per month and turn OTM into a non profit making organisation. This should be run by proper estate agents who have been voted in by other Estate Agents.
20,000 agents will generate £36million. Is that enough to run a portal?
Property Poke In The Eye nailed it. 36 million is enough to run a portal even with 10 million allocated to marketing. For that level of revenue a portal could also provide property valuations, a CRM, an agent website, etc. If anyone (or group) is entrepreneurial enough to manage a Rightmove competitor, I will provide the technology — its already deployed in Spain and ready for UK. Let’s do it. https://www.trovimap.com/
Isn’t OTM now a public listed company with non estate agent shareholders?
Not sure outside investors are likely to support a non profit model.
A smidgeon of reality guys…
Rightmove IS the marketing brand leader in property portals and will, as a duty of care to its shareholders, maximise its profit. If any Agent on here was the top banana in their town and charging the highest fee, would you reduce because a few moaned about your fee but still continued to use your service? No is the simple answer there. Business is Business.
We no longer use Rightmove with no determent to the business at all, if you have the stock and the right property along with decent marketing, both vendor and buyer will find you. I discussed this with another agent and he said it would be suicide, yes suicide, if he left RM. There is the problem, simple brand brainwashing and weakness not to try anything other than what our competition is doing.
If you have decent Lister’s then you could advertise on a bus-stop alone and it should not stop you getting instructed by that vendor if you pitch your SERVICE correctly. If you only need RM to sell then you are actually in the wrong job and you have opened the door for all the online dudes.
You all have a choice of any portal or marketing to your desire, Aldi or M&S, a choice, choose it well, but don’t be scared of believing in your teams, and please stop being sheep. Grow a pair I think is the suggestion.
Endex.
I do not believe a company has a duty to maximise its profit; it has a duty to ensure its business is sustainable. The question is, does its current pricing policy allow for long term sustainability!
Peter, It does make it sustainable as long as agents just continue to whine and moan about the cost and how unfair it is yet do absolutely sod all about it and continue to pay the money to advertise on there.
POST OF THE DAY!
This won’t get any traction until the likes of Connell’s and Counrtywide come off. But for £100 per office per month where else can they advertise?
London Agent, We left rightmove months ago cant believe people are still debating this makes no sense !
Another week, another general rant over rightmove. Well having left 7 months ago I can confirm that there has been no negative impact to my business and I am enjoying visiting Paris once a month with my wife with the saving.
Time to stop the talking and take action. You can always go back to them in the spring post Brexit. They will still be there and happy to take your money. If you want to make them sit up and take notice pull your stock now and enjoy 5 months without their bill. See you in Paris!
Worked out last 12 months cost per lead (booked and attended valuation) and, separately, cost per lead (valuation that lists and goes through to completion). It’s a sobering exercise. Try it.
I hate RM as much as anyone on here but i dont think its possible to monitise the leads they send through.
They may send a viewing request that Mr Smith who wants to view 1 The Avenue, – They may not buy that property but over the next few weeks or months you may gain his property or he may buy a property through you or you may get a mortgage out of him.
I think a lot of agents miss this point.
I am not for one moment saying RM are justified in their pricing, just its a flawed way to measure its productivity.
It shouldn’t be that difficult to put a value to each telephone and email lead. The challenge is putting a value on being on Rightmove to your overall business.
dear cw
dont want to teach you to suck eggs an all, but often clients may check on you before they approach you: for sale board, website, rightmove etc.
Most vendors come direct to me and I suspect they do the same with you through referal/ recomendation but it doesnt they didn’t take a look at you on rightmove first ?
Remember 2007/2008 when we were all paying through the teeth for paper advertising? When the crunch came and we literally could not pay any more, along came Rightmove and saved our bacon for £400 per month. Likely outcome of this current debate is that it will roll-on until the same situation occurs and Onthemarket becomes our current saviour. We could all do it sooner but to be industrywide there is only one likely cause. If I were Rightmove I would be making moves to ease our pain and befriend all agents pretty quickly. Make money while money is there RM, but retain your business in times of hardship. Money will be there again so make sure your business is still there to reap the rewards. RIP local paper adverts.
I see no specific reason to fall out with Rightmove, however, if enough agents simply request a yearly sabbatical whilst they test other options, I’m certain this will very quickly focus RightMove’s pricing strategy. It’s all about having the courage to believe in your own brand and trust in other routes to market.
Yes and onthemarkets reps should be organising the big switch off! Be priceless marketing for them as well.
The RM rep came to see me about a month ago to increase my Optimiser package by £250 per month, I obviously stated my disgust at the decision. After careful consideration (1 hour) I informed the rep that I would be cutting back to the basic package. I got a call a day later to inform me they were withdrawing the increase due to “agent feedback”!
I have however decided to stick with my original decision and strip my subscription back to the basic pscksge. A boycott of RM would be great if the agents who said they were going to boycott actually did!
Good for you and, while you’re at it, remove all their livery from your offices and anywhere it’s used.
I am still waiting for my cost for 1 RM account to cover the post codes we cover now.
Seems a reluctance to give me the 1 account quote.
I assume, it is because I will then force some legal action to have all the other companies charges shown and compared to see how fair they are playing…. with 4 offices in a smallish area…. I assume they will not say it’s £5k? as I assume the 1 office EA’s who cover the same post code as me now are NOT paying £5k for 1 account.
Hi Ric,
For clarity, are you saying you should not pay for multiple accounts? Just one account?
No, the opposite.
I have 4 accounts, covering the same area as a company who covers the same post code sector from one office.
We could close 3 offices and be the same, but we choose to have 4 offices, therefore employ people and offer clients a local place to “walk in” 7 days a week.
Why cant I have one account covering the same post code sectors?
When I ask this, they usually say “it will be the same price to have 1 account as it is 4 for me, because I have offices locations – Yet I would only have 1 phone number and 1 address on Rightmove with 1 account, so I do not see why RM should charge me more for something I choose to do.
I just do not beleive Rightmove favours agents with 2 or more branches or agents who have multi offices in the same post code! My offices are circa 3 to 4 miles apart, tight network, but one which works. It is though because it is a tight network EASY for a company to cover each of our villages from one office. (We just choose not to)
Hope that makes some sense.
Just to confirm, I am saying it seems unfair a 1 office EA covering the same area as a 4 office EA can pay £1000 and the 4 office EA pay £5k
I am paying 4 times as much to add more property in the same post code sector. Makes no sense…. but the only way I can be treated failry is RM saying “close your other offices”! Yup seems fair.
Perhaps the lack of High Street Agents, is being driven by the monopoly that RM say, open an office and you must have a RM account, otherwise we will charge you as if you do anyway!
Got it.
I think you will find the single office covering such a large patch is limited to X amount of properties. When they go past that number they are charged for another branch.
yup, so also charged more for putting more stock on their shelves, which is quite frankly what keeps the public visiting their site.
Lots of logic in looking after the best shelf fillers I would say!
PS saves me typing it above, the RM meeting is tomorrow midday not today.
I have my new rep in today with his Manager (12noon) meeting!
They are keen to see what they can do for me…
Honestly, I reckon £100 a ticket for seats in the meeting might be worth the spend!
I’ll bring my handcuffs / they have already used all of their pairs on Agents.
haha…. nah, forget the held in captivity… my prison is full!!! Only one outcome for someone trying to rip me off today! (PS no RM employees will be hurt in the making of this film)
I’ll bring my bat then instead 🙂
I agree with the comments above. Rightmove lost their common sense. We empower them! Without our properties Rightmove is a worthless website. We provide them with the content they desperately need to attract consumers and we also pay for that content. It is time for a change. Publishing properties must be free or close to be free. Portals need to make money from advertising £ not by constantly charging more and more those who are essential to their existence.
Why not come off all national portals and form local co-operative sites such as
London’s movers.
Just an idea.
Dear Rightmove
We know you are reading these posts. Would it not be a gesture of goodwill to realign your charges with the current climate and general unrest in agents? You are acting like A well known 1940’s Dictator, where we are lesser mortals. Most dictators fall in the end and the wall will be torn down. Perhaps the longer you stand your ground the last profits roll in and perhaps you don’t believe that agents will have the nerve? What a shame you ar being so arrogant. It’s therefore just a matter of time.
Thanks for reading – I know you are!
Reichmove?
What next, will they ‘target’ some of those shop windows displaying enemy of the state logos and/or invade territory that does not belong to them?
Ric, please post the consequences of your meeting with their Sales Service enforcers today.
An ‘allied’ approach – My enemy’s enemy’s are my friends for now?
We are a small independent and gave our notice following the recent price hike. We had a call from an account manager a week before the month notice finished who tried to up sell us ‘better more expensive’ products. We stood our ground and told them to step out of their clueless ivory tower, live in the real world and realise that no other agents in our area are taking on any more houses than us, which is hardly any, so therefore higher packages are making absolutely not one jot of difference!! We stood by it and Rightmove reduced! Massively!
Can you post your full package details/ cost on here please? RM say we’re all paying the same but no one believes it for one second.
thank you.
Agreed Chris.
I pay circa £5k for 4 offices covering a realtively tight area.
I assume the single office companies who sell in the same area (using RM’s own Market Comparison tool) do not pay £5k for that one account.
So for that coverage, they should pay £5k or I be allowed to have 1 master account and pay the same as them.
They themselves provide me with the proof that their system is grossly unfair.
Problem? They will not quote me – well today at 12noon not sure how the Face2Face will go! Anyone is welcome to the meeting!
Back in the day newspapers told agents there was a ‘level playing field’ for rates, yeah right!
Please be mindful of Ian Wilson’s (TPFG) comment about confidentiality before sending any figures to anyone. I have been through all these scenario’s mentioned by others here with Rightmove but never took the action you bravely did. I’ve even used your line of their Ivory Tower. Now is the time, but I’m not asking you your revised figures just following your lead. Frankly, I’m just tired of the arrogance and after the best part of 50 yrs in the business ‘the higher they are the further they fall’, they’ve pushed us all to the limit. Very gratefully, Andrew Jolley
You’ve all been through this before…
The original plan with OTM was for everybody to drop RM. Everybody whelched and targeted Zoopla (who were always cheaper than Rightmove anyway).
Agents are too lazy, and too scared to drop RM because if the agent next door doesn’t, then they hand a MASSIVE advantage to their competitor(s).
This is all hot air.
That’s why SO many agents have gone back to the awful Zoopla…
Sellers might actually respect you, if you grew some back bone.
Agents: I hate rightmove, it’s an evil company. They make too much money and constantly raise their prices.
Sent on my iPhone XS.
My single “Thumbs up” of the day goes to this comment. Made me smile.
‘Agents: I hate rightmove, it’s an evil company. They make too much money and constantly raise their prices‘.
Also agents: Choose us, we have micro-sites, featured properties and banner ads on rightmove, our competitors don’t – choose us!
As noted recently in PIE, Ian Wilson of TPFG is apparently pursuing action against Rightmove so I’ll be interested on developments there…
It is time to look at a number of options on dealing with Rightmove, the No 1 Portal Supplier to Our Industry.
A Rightmove “Blackout” remains a serious Option It’s a simple/direct way of demonstrating the ability of agents to collectively show their unhappiness (Rightmove Happy? Subscribers Unhappy!) with Rightmove’s charging structure.
I think there is more to come…
Ian Wilson of TPFG here. I’m meeting with one of the UK’s top competition barristers today and will be much better informed by this evening. I would repeat my plea to customers of Rightmove to adhere to their contractual obligations. You should check your agreement before revealing how much you pay for service, as any concession on price may have attached to it a requirement to keep the matter confidential. If there is a way forward to tip the balance of negotiating power in favour of agents then it will only be arrived at by a disciplined approach, which honours existing contractual agreements and does not itself breach anti-competition law. I hope to have an update before the weekend.
Hi Ian,good luck today. Do you think it is helpful for other companies to complain to CMA now, or wait until you have an update?
I’ve complained.
Look forward to the update Ian.
Why not ask some agents, in confidence, to be transparent about their actual RM sales listing cost per property?
Example: Yearly subscription for 2017 divided by total yearly listings including withdrawn properties listed during that period (not including SSTC, Completion or Fall throughs) so as to show a fair average median per branch?
If sales and lettings, you will have to deduct the lettings cost per year and exclude lettings listings for now.
Any sales survey would have to differentiate between essential, enhanced and optimiser packages?
For balance, do you think the CMA may like to ask the corporates and no sale, no fee disruptors to participate, although, PB is already halfway there as they already publish their listing rates?
A perfect storm for many 1000s of small estate agents?
I am not disagreeing but I doubt many will walk away.
To be honest you need it to work on a local level.
You need the old style associations to be reformed get together and decide local that the majority will walk away. You need a person local to coordinate such an action.
I would say that is the starting point.
spot on…. Google has come a long way in the last year or so….. much quicker to recognise relevance and authority…. but organising Agents is like herding cats. If enough agents in one town or city could build their own “local” portal to ensure say 60% of stock…. it would soon gain sufficient traction to allow same agents to drop all other portals or renegotiate price?
we have this going on at the moment. A local online news channel is going to launch something. It will be interesting to see how it pans out….
I am Spartacus
My properties are coming off on Christmas Eve for 72 hours. All of them.
There is nothing in the rightmove contract to stop me
who’s in?
Maybe 2 or 3 other people. Don’t burn yourself out.
Do you have to pay to put them all back on?
Rather than remove them, make your image not of a photo of the property, but a message saying “For Further Details Visit http://www.onthemarket.com)
Peter,
I think you should lead the ideas ! Brilliant !
We do this every year anyway!
Have a Merry Christmas, you will be riding alone! You can’t fight city hall.
Who knows what will happen if agents disrupt RM’s growth, you may well find they simply change the model and sell direct to the public.
The first portal to do this will be Zoopla – Rightmove do not have any other revenue streams bar agent membership and possibly selling data to third parties. All us agents would walk away overnight if this were to happen!
D.i.y rightmove will never happen. It would be like saying in the 80’s , people have worked out how to make for sale boards… we don’t need agents anymore… same reason why online liars are getting 4% of market. People will pay for us to take the can .. it’s easier .
Based on their Frome office Cooper and Tanner have
Microsite for sales and lettings
Pretty much every property is a premium listing
Logo
They have the banner that pops up during a random search for Frome properties for sale
So with all respect, when you are pretty much paying for everything Rightmove has going, its a bit rich telling us how to tame the beast, you are the core part of the problem.
SPOT ON – absolutely SPOT ON!!!!!!!
Noise, just a bit of noise, because the pat on the back for saying we hate RM and lets make a stand got someone all excited.
Look forward to the RM debate next year, and the year after and the year after.
When I had a meeting with a rep from Rightmove recently to try to to negotiate a better package due to market conditions, all they did was try to up sell me to their highest package! They do not got two hoots about their clients, it’s all about money, money, money!
All the add on’s that I was paying extra for were just becoming the norm, so had no extra value at all. If anything, going back to the basic package makes an agent stand out more now.
We have done this. Although from speaking to a few agents, it’s my understanding that RM are preventing some agents from doing this – essentially withdrawing the “Essential” package.
All that happens by giving the reps grief is they leave and rightmove carry on as normal. I won’t talk to mine anymore. I just say until you ban payanyway agents from your site I won’t listen to a company with no morals .
The sheer arrogance of RM has for many years been their potential downfall. I was speaking to an agent yesterday who’d just had their RM meeting. They were told that RM had scrapped the Essential package and that the only option for them was Enhanced or Optimiser! Clearly that would seem to suggest that so many agents have reverted to Essential (core), finding no tangeable value in additional products, that the bully that is RM has responded in the only way it knows how. This will be interesting to watch unfold…
If you try to starve a big dog it will try to eat your dinner …..
Big dog, could not live off the new portions that big dog would be forced to eat!
Big dog would have to spend more than it does now, without the continuous income stream and knowledge anyone else would put up with the price hikes year on and year out.
Be careful what you put in your mouth big dog!
What bugs me is, we’ve been saying this for years, we had a chance to make the change… market gets tough, and out comes the “it’s not fair” stupid industry we are! We do not mind spending on RM when the going is good… but gets a bit hard and moan moan moan.
We had our chance in a stronger market…. so whilst I love all this “noise” it is just “noise”, nothing more nothing less.
Great piece …. so you have no plan… Just an ideal . You go first then ….Onthemarket should be doing this. Onmarket should be the purplebricks to our industry. They should be slating rightmove and creating the movement to finally leave wrongMove . Trouble is.. rightmove employ sprigget.. he is a spy.. Putin told me.
Do you mean I have no plan?
Not if the thing is muzzled or properly controlled. Any sign of aggression and it’s off to the vet!