Concern is mounting among OnTheMarket agents about Houser, the new portal which is due to launch today – taking its properties direct from agents’ own websites without their authorisation.
According to one agent, posting on Eye, this could breach the “one other portal” requirement.
The agent said this was the response they had received from OTM after querying it: “Your contract with Agents’ Mutual does indeed mean that you may only advertise with one other property portal, which includes aggregators such as Houser.
“We of course understand that these websites scrape data, often without your go-ahead, and as such request that you contact them and ask them to cease scraping and to remove your listings as soon as possible, but as this is out of your direct control we will of course bear with you while you wait for Houser to action your request.”
Eye asked Ian Springett, chief executive of Agents’ Mutual, which launches OTM in just two weeks’ time, for further information.
He said yesterday: “We have not yet sent out formal guidance to all our member agents so this response may have been sent by one of our staff on an ad hoc basis.
“However, it does broadly reflect the policy we will be adopting.
“Spicerhaart Group is leading the way on this.
“Houser emailed all their offices and then accessed the Group’s websites and began displaying their information on the Houser website without authorisation.
“Spicerhaart immediately contacted Houser to require them to remove that information from their website and received on Friday an immediate response confirming that this would be done.
“We will shortly be asking all our members to take the same action.
“The response to Spicerhaart indicates that Houser will take ‘up to 10 days’ to remove their information.
“It is not clear why it should take so long.
“We know from feedback other members have given us that they are very concerned and angry that someone would access and use their data without their consent.”
The picture is of Houser’s official press launch last Thursday at the Hilton in London.
At the event, Houser founder Rocky Mirza told journalists: “Houser means business.”
He claimed that charging estate agents to list their properties “is a broken business model and is not in the best interest of the consumers”.
He emphasised that Houser’s goal is to create the largest inventory of listings. These will include private listings.
Comments (89)
Simon Shinerock – somewhere 'oop above, you turn the tide and state something along the lines that you no longer consider The Portal War as a main concern within the industry. Now I'm not saying that you are wrong – and in fairness to you the other matters on your agenda are waaay more pressing and seriously NEED the attention of someone with your obvious cojones (such a pity that as usual it is down to the 'foot soldiers' – usually high-ranking ones like you – to fight the industry's battles whilst those in the nuclear bunkers that are Arbon House and Great George Street sit back and watch…)… but a one-man war is something that is best left to Hollywood, Sir. In REAL matters of vital importance to the industry and who we serve, would it not be best you look to form a collective of like-minded, influential, characters to take the battle to the doorstep of those that pose the threat. Do THAT – do it well – and you'll receive more kudos than you know possible… especially from people like ME! But here's where I have just a tiny problem. You've banged the 'Anti-OTM' drum now for several months. You've tee'd yourself up as "…a major dissident voice in the great Agents’ Mutual (AM) debate". And NOW – days to go to the launch of what you have been campaigning against all this time – you simply announce you have a new 'pet project'? I appreciate that this new pretender you got all watery-eyed over has undoubtedly fallen way short of your expectations – we expected a 'train crash' and it's sadly disappointed even US… ;o) – but surely you're not simply going to roll over and play dead, or try to creep out the back door? Despite this Doogie Howser malarkey not doing your previous line of argument any favours, 'The Great OTM Debate' is still hot property, news-wise – and STILL remains a subject of immense importance in our industry – is it not?Come on, Mr Shinerock – show us you can multi-task! ;o)
You are not wrong PeeBee, I will summon the energy to continue the OTM debate, I rarely give up. That said, I have spent countkess hours on the PRS issue, reading Shelters lamentable report, writing an emotional outpouring of garbage, turning that into 3500 words of understandably heartfelt protest and finally producing a cogent response. I agree, no matter how big my cohones, I won't get far without the support of a group of like minded colleagues (code) I am sufficiently motivated to work towards thus goal, my hand is extended.
'Gecko Estate Agents Ltd' – somewhere above you state "We are here to provide the best service we can for the vendor, not just to protect our profit and margins. It seems to me that all High Street Agents want to do is save themselves money but without passing the savings onto the client." So… you're completely A-OK with the fact that you DO NOT advertise on Rightmove, then? You can confidently state that you are providing your customer the best service possible with your marketing coverage? The phrase 'Yeah – right' springs to mind.
Hmmm… 'SmilePlease2' launches today with a torrent of poorly presented and thought-out posts on one thread only – THIS ONE. Has plenty to say but says nothing in the process. I usually never jump on the 'portal employee' bandwagon – but for me this one's a no-brainer. Too much of a coincidence.
Possibly one of the army of Houser employees who spent all day scraping properties off agents websites!
Whoops ! and there he pops up at precisely the same moment as my posting. I must therefore apologise to Mr Shinerock for implying he wouldn't react to the multiple taunts today. But unlike his apology, mine is not laden with sarcasm.
…and re Shinerock, perhaps he will now keep his flatulent opinions to himself and desist from all the grandiose grandstanding piffle we have had to endure recently with his Orwellian pronouncements of doom and gloom directed at OTM supporters ! His silence today says it all really.
this is just to get simmon come and play this childish game. But here's the thing: I’m sure you and other OTM supporters already know the human brain is an odd, glitchy machine and it’s a known fact that is influenced in all sorts of weird ways you never thought of. This is one of the main reasons why politicians and salespeople can trick you into going along with them, they know just by toying with the words they use. Science is finally catching up to them, and has found that …
Repeating Your Opinion Makes People Believe It, No Matter How Stupid It Is. This is what OTM thought leaders have done and small percentage of estate agents believe it.
20% of Agents isn't a small percentage of agents and in an industry where achieving even a 5% market share is considered good, 20% is phenomenal, especially given the principal profiles that have to be overcome to sell them anything. AM/OTM is need satisfaction selling so your comments about repetition aren't correct either.
I am posting using the name I was first given and if you are after the sort of discussion you requested earlier in the day how about registering a new account with a real name so your motivation for posting on here is transparent?
@Gecko (not Gordon is it?) – get real for pete's sake ! This type of clichéd comment has been made a zillion times during the last 12 months.
On Houser, have just checked and all our properties are listed. Have asked OTM what we do about all the 'scraping' sites that are listing our properties without our knowledge or consent (note that needaproperty has now gone to the wall….)
Are the biggest Agents in the UK forgetting one thing?….. We are here to provide the best service we can for the vendor, not just to protect our profit and margins. It seems to me that all High Street Agents want to do is save themselves money but without passing the savings onto the client.
And what exactly are you babbling on out? If you are arguing that OTM will save me money, think again. It will cost me more to list with them than it will Zoopla.
I did like 'best service we can for the vendor' bit of your post though. I assume you'll be of to college to learn some photography skills, buying some floor plan software and might even stretch to moving the odd bit of rubbish out of the way before taking a shot. http://geckoestateagents.co.uk/properties/2110/
Good work gecko, imagine what you could of got that vendor had you done it properly.
Wardy, very easy to point figures at others. how about you list your site and show us all how it is done?
Oh dear Gecko, people in Glass houses …… Poor website, minimum properties, poorly presented and guess what ……. YOU ARE A BUDGET AGENT £295 – £595 – you get for what you pay. You are costing vendors money not saving them money!
your first post was at 7:47 am and this one is at 5:28pm. i'm sure you do spend time on your clients listings, right? now you are picking on budget agents. i'm sure he didn't ask you for advice before starting his business.
Gecko is this you posting? I had thought it was the chap from houser but maybe I was wrong! To be honest these days I don't do too many valuations, majority of my time is taken up with marketing and staffing / training only on the "big" ones do they wheel me out. Benefits of charging 1.5% is you can recruit great staff!
I went to the site at 9.30am and saw 3 companies listed in my area, then went back just now to see 15 listed, looks like they are scrapeing and adding them on as we speak in fact Savills, Knight Frank and KFH(all OTM agents) are now listed, so it appears that we are all going to be listed and have 10 days before they come off.
assuming you don't want them kept on of course!
The same company also own the following…https://www.directly.me/. ….and it's also free to list as well apparently. Looks like Mr Mirza is a real tech specialist.
Scatter gun approach – enough websites, offering enough things can make a living with enough foolish people paying X amount. Jack of all, master of none springs to mind!
the first poster on most of these stories is normally you. is this your full-time job?
No but I get to the office just after 7 am every morning and whilst I have my coffee I read through eye. Keep up with industry news. Quite beneficial it's like CPD in financial circles. Maybe try it sometime??
Interesting if you hit the refine search button and no property comes back it defaults to a search facility within RIGHTMOVE!!!! Now I thought RM had a copyright and anti-crawler clause, where are you RM? For they alone should be able to stop this and it obvious where he is getting the feed from.
Do you know how that happens?
Hmmm… where's Simon Shinerock when you want him?
You know – the man who said "You're about to miss out on the biggest development in estate agency since the invention of the Camera."… he who stated "Having been shown Houser, I felt it is vital that given the timing of the AM launch that agents have a chance to see it first, as it may well change their point of view completely…"; he whose verdict is "If what I have been shown is true, it will literally be ahead of Rightmove and Zoopla within three months, no that's not a typo and almost immediately, Houser will be the must-have, go-to site for property for all of our clients."
Come on, sunshine – you've got some SERIOUS humble pie eating to do here – and I'VE GOT THE SPOON FULLY LOADED AND READY!
@PeeBee – the man that mixes vanity with waffle like none else………..don't start him off! – Jonnie
Some of the predictions of Mr Shinerock in the last 3 months (Industry earthquake articles) have literally alll proven to be a million miles wide of the mark, this however is just a shocking endorsement.
Simon shinerock is another (like Harree) have lost all their credibility in the industry with some of the claims made. I would say 100% Mr Shinerock will not post a reply on this thread about Houser. He, in spite of his claims, does not strike me as someone who would say, "sorry guys , I got this one wrong", which further damages his credibility as far as I'm concerned.
Oh, Jonnie – I think the MORE Mr Shinerock says, the merrier! Just think of him as another of my pet projects – in the same vein as that Realising Reality chappie was/is ;o)
Look Guys, I want you all to know that I have faith in you, if anyone can ****** defeat from the jaws of victory its you. Anyway, I used Houser to demonstrate the change that is coming to online marketing and the stupidly of tying one hand behind your back. Of course Houser has yet to prove itself and I think that he should be given more than a few hours before writing him off. However if his site fails it won't alter the principal one bit. Now for the apology, I'm so so so so so sorry so sorry
Poor comment Simon, Unlike some I do like your input as you have a differing view that does add balance. However you must admit that this Houser offering is a joke. First thing he needed to do was to get agents on side for it to work and failed at the first hurdle. At least Sprignett managed that (little too well in some cases). Amazes me as a leading figure in a high street agency you even help endorse these ideas. Surely you know as well as I that high street agency will one day be a thing of the past (many years to come I hope) Why hurry and push it through? how do your staff feel about that?
Simon..Well, looks like I'm eating humble pie as well !!! Cheers for the response, I thought you'd avoid this one, so credit to you for not hiding. You always did say you were the type of person who would hold your hands up if you got something wrong. Unfortunately, and I think you agree, Houser wasn't,( albeit with hindsight), the portal to try and get your point over with-and I think we do get that.
Thanks Wilko, fair point Smile please. My big bug bear at the moment is not the portals but the PRS and the meddling of organisations like Shelter which could destroy our industry and make the housing crisis even worse. I've written to Shelter and got an initial response, I have read their ridiculous 48 page report paid for by donations made by people who think they help the homeless,. I'm in the middle of writing a response, got to reduce my rant from six pages to three. Anyway, as far as portals are concerned we will all see what happens this year. I somehow doubt I will be completely wrong, or completely right for that matter. PeeBee, I'm honoured to be a project
Simon, I think shelter is a worth while battle! – They seem to have taken an issue and turned it into something completely different which lacks any credibility. In regards to PRS is that the company or redress schemes in general? – Would be interested to hear your thoughts on that.
PeeBee Instead of focusing on your business, you rather insult random people, pick fights, and stir up trouble. I bet you come refresh this page throughout the day, keep reading your own comments and pat yourself on the back with admiration.
Actually, I almost NEVER re-read my own comments – only when someone refers to them. And I don't pat myself anywhere. IF I wanted glory I wouldn't be posting anonymously – would I? Excuse the directness – but you really should put some thought into what you post. Of course, you will see that as insulting a random; picking a fight, and stirring up trouble. Three out of three ain't bad – AND I spent ALL DAY focusing on my business. You, on the other hand, achieved WHAT, exactly?
He managed a poor launch of a portal 😉
Can't even find it. Anyone got the url?
Hi wardy – nice to see you bud! It's http://www.houser.co.uk Enjoy – it's a 'site' for sore eyes! ;o)
Thank you PeeBee,
Load of tosh really. Unfortunately this is just one site of hundreds that are scraping data, OTM are going to need a team of people just to police the on other portal rule.
As always, wardy – the pleasure is mine! ;o) Think of the fun you could have with this Mirza bloke if he were posting here, RR-style, and he was scraping wardy&co properties…!
before the end of the year, the one other portal rule will be abolished. You watch and see. There is name for, this group attack by otm supporters on anyone who has anything to say regardless of how intelligent the comment may be – it’s called the “audience effect” – the shift in our performance when we know people are watching or when certain group has blind member support. It isn’t always positive. In live, face-to-face situations, like sports or live music, the audience effect often makes runners or musicians perform better, but it can sometimes psych them out and make them choke, too. 26th is not far away and I’m looking forward to seeing if all this talk actually has some substance behind it.
"There is a group name by those OTM supporters"…you do realise that many of the posters that you have tried to mock today are not OTM supporters.
The website is an absolute joke! Just checked my own town, and those of three others within a 5-mile radius. Only a small percentage of the listings are actually where they are supposed to be – the rest spread as far as 20+ MILES away!
The functionality of the site is literally abysmal. I would be ashamed to list my property on this website.
Oh – and many OTM Members ARE showing listings on there, that I believe have no knowledge of their inclusion…
Shocking init PeeBee…And to think that some hailed this as the great white hope, unbelievable!
You are an otm member who already thinks the mutual will run zoopla out of business and then rightmove. who can expect anything positive from you about a new comer. unlike some of the others, you at least provided why you feel shame
Sorry, 'SmilePlease2' – who exactly is your post meant to be addressing – Paul H or me?
What an absolute rubbish site.
I called houser to see how the listings will be populated. This is what I was told. They get listings from three sources:
1. Agents adding their own listings: they say lots of agents are doing it and from the customization on the agents profile it backs their claim.
2. Aggregating listings from those who have not yet joined.
3. And user submitted listings.
Any user can take any listings from the internet and add it to houser’s site, if that listing is not already there. (user submitted listings). These users submitted listings could be by a user or by the seller of the house (or by the family members of the seller).
For example the house owner of one of the Spicerhaart listing can actually upload that listing to houser himself. If this happens, it will be interesting to see how Spicerhaart group will deal with their client on why he/she is trying to market his own property.
Also they say
Listings are free for the next 5 years but not for those who asked to be removed. Once removed, they will charge a monthly subscription fee for relisting.
By the sounds it wont be around in 5 years and agents don't need or want this "Service"
I've just tried to login as well. The website says it will be live in 1hr 40 mins but will allow you to search. I was interested to see if they had 'scraped' any of our properties. You cannot carry out an area search otherwise an error message comes up, you have to be postcode specific, so that's a load of rubbish to start with. It might be an idea for Houser to get their own House in order before launching with a broken website !! I'll logon again in a couple of hours to see if anything has changed. As for my properties, if I could carry out a search I might be able to find out!
Guessing the budget for the "Launch" went on the venue! Budget website by any chance???
Will OTM agents also have to stop Google indexing their sites?
Why would they? Google are not a property portal.
What about all aggregators who use feeds from the two main portals. What will be the OTM stand on those? What about vertical search engines? Did you know otm has made exception to one other portal rule, at least in one part of the country? Were you consulted or did you even know? If you do know, I would love to hear in your own words how come most otm members don’t even know about it?
I have just tried to google the Houser site to see if they have scraped my properties. I can't find it on the first few results pages!!
what is the name of your business? maybe i can help.
This post suggest to me you are Mr Mirza?
"He claimed that charging estate agents to list their properties “is a broken business model and is not in the best interest of the consumers”"………. It would be really interesting to hear an explanation or some justifaction for that claim.
I genuinely do not believe that a tech firm such as Houser has not got a notification feed to tel the that this story exists. It is also a little perplexing that they would choose to ignore the opportunity to explain to the audience they are trying to win over why their new business model is beneficial to both Agents and Vendors.
I looked at Houser last week and noticed that a leading AM agent in my area had taken the time to personalise their Houser listing. The same agent is also telling those seeking valuations that they have not as yet decided whether to drop RM or Z – an absolute lie, they are dropping Z. I suspect this duplicity by AM agents is widespread and will lead to conflict not just with AM and also among local AM agents but also with sellers once they find out agents have duped them over RM and Z delisting. Trading Standards inevitably will get involved.
So Harree, when this, as you describe, two faced, back stabbing OTM Agent tells you in 12 months or so he is pulling off Rightmove will you believe him?
I keep getting told on here Zoopla first, then Rightmove! Fun and games to come me thinks!
You are saying in 12 months, all agents on otm will remove themselves from zoopla and then right move. And you are saying this based on what?
I keep getting told that on here. I don't think for one minute they will .
IF http://www.onthemarket.com works as well as I think it will, then I can tell you that I will ditch my "one other portal" as soon as my contract allows. Can't be clearer than that.
Hold on Harree…. You are saying they are telling people "they have not decided WHICH to drop" rather than them saying nothing and giving people the opinion they will be on both?…………………….or are you saying this company is pretending they will be on both still?
Ric, as I type this my valuer has just come off the phone posing as a potential seller to the same company – this is what she was told when she asked "is it true that you will you be coming off RM or Z by the end of January?" the reply "no its not true, we will be staying with both sites until we see if the new one works and then we might come off Rightmove later." THIS IS A BLATANT LIE from a LEADING AM AGENT. The lady in question was asked to send an email confirming this and she said she would … surely they won't be so stupid.
Then they are pretty poor on many fronts…………….and assuming they are not the only AM member agent in your area, rest assured the AM police will be out in force!!!………………..This will be managed and monitored by the AM members playing fair….. the agent you speak of will no doubt have his stock taken off OTM immediately and as they have signed a contract so will still be paying for the privilege of invisible property………. I am never completely sure a fake call gets a true answer……. If someone phoned me out of the blue asking the question you just asked, I would be suspicious as to "why" what potential seller is sat there thinking this now?………….. however judging their credibility by making a pretend home owner call…. pot and kettle?
Ric, if you are not frightened of telling the truth – why not just tell it? And as for "why would someone ask" we (and other non AM agents in my area) have been telling clients at valuations for weeks now that other local agents will be coming off RM or Z by the end of Jan. Sellers are contacting AM agents for clarification and this particular agent is LYING and these sellers are coming back to us and saying WE are lying!! You can well imagine now why I am being persistent in nailing this particular senior AM agent.
Hi Harree – I don't follow you……..have I lied somewhere? or do you mean if "They" meaning the company you are testing are not frightened of telling the truth why not tell it?…………… your post suggests I have said something and I am not prepared to back it up………. to which I can assure you, not a single one of our clients will be lied to nor any phone call to my company can catch us out………….as we are not on Z anyway!……………….. so what is the question to me which would have me fear telling the truth?…………………assuming you mean them (after my self defence) then as I stated first in my reply to you "they are pretty poor" for not telling the truth and if I were you I would not worry as those who have come back to you and accused you of being the liar will be embarrassed to have done so soon…… who will have the last laugh come 26.1.15? You, it would appear if you are correct in your findings!………………… so just sit back and let them dig their own hole……………………..I get not everyone supports AM, but for those who have a firm belief they will get extra business by not being on it, then why an earth moan about OTM, embrace it as a business winner and stay off it…………… As said previously, I am doubling my spend, so the whole dropping another portal argument is wasted on me.
….."Ric, as I type this my valuer has just come off the phone posing as a potential seller to the same company" …..Harree…you can't keep making things up like this. If you are not prepared to name names then you shouldn't post there is absolutely no treason that you can't name them if you are telling the truth!
If anyone gets a call today asking the question "I've heard you are dropping RM or Z, is this true?" say Hello Harree! and wait for the hung up tone.
you talk about Harree not naming names yet, your name is wilko. If everyone here was to list their real name and real business, most of the hateful comments being made would stop and constructive conversation would take place. Why not everyone list their real name, real business and have a real conversation. This will eliminate all the trolls. And if the site applies the rule, it will force all of us including me to be real.
If I was the owner of this site, the instant I saw something abusive, I’d delete it, and ban repeat offenders. Meanwhile I would go out of my way to encourage the smart folks, personally and publicly, so they’d be encouraged to stay and talk. Soon several dozen regular commenter’s will emerged. This is not to say it’s a love fest or devoid of conflict. But the debate can transpire civilly and without name calling.
Posting your real name and business name would not eliminate trolls! but out of interest, is SmilePlease2 your first name or your second? its a very unusual name, even though I know another one!
Sounds like speculation. I also don't think that will happen, agents that have signed up to otm have for one purpose and that's to work together. Many flaws with AM / OTM but I don't think this is a serious one. I cant see what trading standards have to do with this?
smile please – I'm not talking about OTM v OTM agents I'm talking about NON OTM v OTM. The biggest policers of the one portal rule will be non AM agents + see my posts above about the blatant lies an AM agent in my area is churning out to potential sellers.
Blimey Haree,, you really will make anything up to turn articles to your feed your own motivation. I mean….. "I looked at Houser Last week(how convenient) and noticed a leading (not just any) agent taking the time (how long does it take?) to personalise their listings.
What day last week did you look, and what agent is it you refer to?…..You really have absolutely NO credibility left regarding these discussions on forum any longer, in my view-stop making things up.
wilko – I am telling the truth. If you read my other post above another employee of the very same agents has just blatantly lied again about their OTM advertising. I have screenshots of their Houser listing and I am awaiting receipt of an email (if they are stupid enough to send it) which will go straight to my local Trading Standards.
I won't reveal the agent involved because I have a dossier of screenshots, clients, conversations (and hopefully soon best of all an email from direct from the agent) which clearly show that this agent has been, and still is, misleading potential clients just 14 days from OTM launch. I don't want to stop that duplicity by naming who they are on PIE.
"I don't want to stop that duplicity by naming who they are on PIE" …..Then you should NOT post – most of us believe you have NO credibility without facts!
Harree, why are you trying to justify yourself? Same handful of people seems to be the guardian of otm and will argue with anyone with every chance they get. Look behind any high-functioning discussion forum online and you’ll find someone doing trammeling. Without it you get chaos. That’s why the comment section of this site is cesspool; there is no culture of moderating comments.
Looks like I hit the big time, my very own name sake! Why do we want moderated comments? I like hearing both sides of a debate and in the main everybody is civil. By the way I am not sulky at all. I look for what I feel is the best for the industry that gives me a living and offer my thoughts. On the time I do get a little upset it's down to outrageous claims that cannot be guaranteed.
Leo Sayer? —- Well I'm a one man band
Nobody knows nor understands
Is there anybody out there want to lend me a hand
With my one man band
It would urge non OTM members to remove stock as well. You do not want to help with private listings. Impressive looking launch as well!
sorry fat fingers "I" not "It"
If I wanted list my properties where the majority of traffic comes from Pakistan I would look at joining Houser, but it is hard to arrange viewing times with such irregular flights. Also their domain name is not showing up in Google??? Trying to take on Google as well is a bit too much I think!
Correct me if I am wrong? for a person who has name smile please, you seem to be very sulk·y
Smile…..I thought that re. the "launch"….a bit of blue baize and some photocopied sheets of a3!!!!….A good indication that this guy is a total chancer, someone who doesn't want to work for a living, in my view…All agents that want to protect their professional status need to stay in control of their listings.I would like to join Smile in urging ALL agents (OTM or not) to do the same and request removal.
I also agree with Smile Please on this. It's non sensical for any agent to want to allow any company to scrape their listings, a complete chancer with no idea of how the UK property industry works. In another piece on the other site today, Houser have also announced that they are soon to launch a new Valuation APP where you point your phone at a property and you get an instant valuation…I think we can see where this is going.