OnTheMarket boss Ian Springett has countered claims made in yesterday’s trading statement by Zoopla that OTM would be a “short-term” event.
Springett said that the phrase demonstrated “just how out of touch Zoopla is with the commitment of our member agents to create a superior market-leading, mutually run property portal”.
The new figures he quoted also reveal a rise of 100 agency offices subscribing to OTM since its launch at the end of January – now 4,700 branches, up from 4,600.
Springett said: “Zoopla reports an 11% reduction in the number of estate agent branches listing their properties from this time last year.
“However, we believe a more relevant period is from September to date which was when most of our member agents had to choose which portal to retain and which one to drop.”
Yesterday, analyst William Packer from Exane BNP Paribas suggested Zoopla’s estate agency figures had fallen “a significant 21%” since September, including 500 branches which have submitted notice but are not yet removed from Zoopla Property Group.
Springett said this represents a “genuine sea-change” in the property portals market.
Springett said: “It was and continues to be the choice of our member agents to decide from which portal to remove their listings.
“Of our 4,700 contracted offices, around 90% have chosen to reject Zoopla.
“In Zoopla’s annual report dated September 30, 2014, their claimed property listings were 1.1m, which they defined as ‘the total number of properties being advertised for sale or to rent at the end of this period’.
“According to the number of properties for sale and rent on Zoopla’s website today, the figure is 810,256 – a reduction of 26%.
“This is clearly a reflection of the number of agents who have removed their listings from Zoopla.
“However, many of our member agents are questioning whether Zoopla Property Group really has the claimed 810,256 UK properties ‘being advertised for sale or to let’ – i.e. available to buy or to rent – and believe that the true figure for available properties in England, Scotland and Wales, as searchable on the Zoopla website, has fallen to below 460,000.”
A spokesperson for Zoopla responded, telling Eye: “As a public company on the London Stock Exchange many of our metrics including traffic, leads, branches and listings are in the public domain.
“We are a data driven business and focus on ensuring that we deliver the best value for our members which was again confirmed this morning with our record traffic and record leads per listing and member.
“We will continue to let the data and facts speak for themselves over the coming weeks rather than engaging in speculation and escalating the rhetoric.”
* OnTheMarket advertising was shown in a break – as was Rightmove’s Find Your Happy – during last night’s C4 ‘Location, Location, Location’ co-presented by Zoopla ambassador Phil Spencer.
Spencer fronts a new video telling people to make sure their properties are widely advertised on the Zoopla sites and Rightmove.
In case you haven’t seen it, it is here
OTM also has a particuularly strong presence in this week’s edition of Country Life magazine. Out of 22 pages of property advertising, almost all carry the OTM branding.
Only eight do not – including Chewton Rose, which as part of Spicerhaart could do so.
The magazine also has a full-page display advertisement for OTM.
Comments (122)
Sorry…. did someone mention OnTheMarket?
I don’t think anyone has in this thread yet! Phew
I find it crazy that the only thing to discuss on here is OTM, with the potenial ban of tenant fees looming, come May OTM will be insignifant. Surely agents should be concentrating on bigger issues?
These continual headlining of On the Market is getting rather boring. Everyone can make their own choices after all, it their business. No one portal dominated every area, so depends where you are gives you a different perspective.
I have no axe to grind with any of the portals, but in letting type in BS15 area and On the Market has no agents, no properties so not exactly going to entice my clients.
There are far more important issues going on in the rental market for me to worry who is No 2. or No 3.
This is hilarious, the title of this article sounds like a child utterance, claiming that his toy IS the best.
OTM’s value proposition is not competitive. Nor is Z or RM. Well at leat the 2 latter are generating leads. But at what cost! I guess barriers to entry are high but I wish there was a better alternative, a portal which would understand the concept of being competitive…..
Stock means nothing. Eyeballs, visits, response & value to the vendor is all that is important here.
That much has to be evident to every agent, surely?
Someone disagrees that response & value isn’t important for an agents marketing.
Today won’t get any better than this!
You get that response DE because you post with an internet bias not a real world estate agency one. Many of the practices involved in sales across the spectrum of industries have indirect not just direct benefit to the sellers. When Tesco’s advertises, does it list every product it has for sale, no it doesn’t. What it does is promotes itself, that in turn brings customers into its store, where they find other products they may like. This is one of the reasons of course why internet only agents can struggle to sell a property; they don’t have that option as their stock in one particular location is limited. My point however is that we don’t advertise on RM, Z or OTM JUST to market property, we market ourselves. We do that because buyers then want to know what else we have, our sellers in turn get the benefit of that.
Stock means people will come back thus increasing eyeballs, visits, response and value to the vendor. Stock also – correct me if I’m wrong – has useful benefits as far SEO goes, which in turn increase eyeballs etc etc. Content is king but audience pays the taxes…
Out now doing 6 viewings with a London investor 🙂 I will let you know where he found us later.
He found us on Rightmove
Hope you dropped Zoopla then!! ;). Portals don’t sell houses, people do.
I can afford 2. So can everyone else 😉
“Why would I dream of joining OTM based on those figures?”… Your right so why not just sit tight, then when in about 6-12 months OTM is the 2nd (nationwide) portal & Zoopla have to look at other ways to make money (as Merseyside isn’t quite cutting it for them) maybe then you should consider jumping on board.
Or just continue to have an advantage and doing business as usual until a new option has proven return and doesn’t hurt the perception of your business or your opportunity to stand toe to toe with agents doing more effective marketing than you.
“Hey guys, jump in now, whilst the waters freezing cold…”
Sound advice Paul H and exactly where I am right now.
But if I take it how can OTM grow? And if it doesnt grow?
Well it’s growing mostly everywhere else, have you not read the article?
It would grow in your area if you joined.
Wilko why spend a fortune to draw traffic to a site that has no stock? How silly is that? Traffic will only come once if it is badly disappointed.
“to a site that has no stock? How silly is that?”…….Actually it’s the silliest comment I’ve ever read on PIE because the site doesn’t have , in your words “NO STOCK”
Read the stats above Wilko and then judge how ‘silly’ your comment is. I am intersted in the stock that OTM has both nationally and locally. However my area has virtually no stock and thats a stone cold fact!
I’ll quote you again on this thread;
“Wilko why spend a fortune to draw traffic to a site that has no stock?”
It has got stock…..loads in fact, so why would you say it has no stock?……If you meant to say “hasn’t got any stock in your area” then you should have said that in your comment to me. This is exactly the reason I made the initial post……Some anti otm consistently post totally innacurate nonsense and then try and back it up with more nonsense. And your latest reply highlights this all the more.
Sorry I didn’t spell it out exactly for you. I have above. I have even given you a postcode breakdown. Accuarate? It is what you get why you use the OTM website. It should be very simple for you to see where I am coming from if you take off your rose tinted specs. Surely even you should realise that you should be trying to convince agents to join OTM. You don’t appear to grasp this yet.
“Sorry I didn’t spell it out exactly for you” and I’m also sorry for being picky but I think I understand where you are coming from and I’m pretty sure that, bearing in mind you seem to be a pro agent who knows what their doing (from your comments), you will want to come on board when there are more agents and more activity in your area…….as for now it’s Friday night so lets go to the pub, Ill get you one in for when you get there.
I trust that is tongue in cheek Paul. Otherwise it would lead me to believe that OTM supporters actually are deluded. I dont believe for one second that Merseyside, which has a massive stock, is an isolated area. However it does seem strange that virtually none of the hundred or so offices in the area have been convinced by the OTM arguement. And more tellingly you as an OTM supported cannot answer my question which I put again:
Why would I dream of joining OTM based on those figures?
B6RKY, it’s not about joining for the figures at this point, because anyone with an ounce of intelligence will know there won’t be the traffic to compare to RM and Zoopla at this stage or even in the next few months. If more agents join, more property is removed from Zoopla and RM’s inventory, couple that with continued PR both paid for and by the agents, the sites traffic will grow. That’s why the gold members made the 5 year commitment. If you are looking for a quick hit, it isn’t going to happen in 3 weeks and I’m amazed anyone would be expecting it or making their decision based on that. Did the day you or anyone open their doors to do this job, take on 50 houses and sell 30 a month? No, you grafted and got your name out there, offered good service and got recommended and after years of this hard work, you started to reap the rewards, but guess what, even with 5, 10, 15 or 20 years plus in the business you still lose out to other agents, so having lots of hits and traffic in your first week, month or year will never guarantee you success, only you will. If you care about the industry you work in and want to have some control over it, you need to embrace this and make it work. Only the agents can make it work, not the traffic. Portals don’t sell houses, people do……
Can I just say to everyone who consistently knocks the AM project that you are entitled to your opinions but please tell me this:
“Why have so many knockers of the project been on it’s back from day 1 whining about traffic to site”
Do you realise how silly you look, or did you seriously, honestly, expect the traffic to be the same as Z and breathing down rms neck from day 1???….
I was desperately trying to keep my mouth shut today as its always the same for and against debate.
Could not resist on this one though as i think it is important to explain why i at least have issues over this and maybe somebody at OTM reads and can fix so gets more fence sitters on-board. 😉
Traffic is a major issue to me, as it helps build the brand (not necessarily to sell property as we can all sell in this market 3 or 4 times over) and when i mean the brand i mean both OTM and my brand for my company.
With Z and RM i am guaranteed maximum exposure and with OTM it is considerably less.
We all know the most important thing in agency is listing, the more your brand is known and recognized the more time you are called out to vals.
i gave an example yesterday but some may have missed it as was buried under a multitude of comments.
The public do not search like us. They will type into a search engine “House for sale in XXXX” chances are if you do this right now in any patch of the country you will get on the first page results, possibly 2 local agents who spend masses of money and understand seo and the other 8 made up of both Z and RM links. If you are lucky in your area you will have a sponsored link from OTM – Issues with this is public do not trust the links (they are the ones in yellow) and also they are expensive so how long can OTM sustain them.
You know like i do most sellers search months before they instruct an agent. Z and RM help build up your brand. If the public are not talking to local agents they probably have not heard of OTM. And as pointed out probably wont find them on the net.
This is my concerns regarding traffic might be different for others.
Also hopefully that proves i’m not silly just cautious. And no i don’t expect same as RM or Z from day 1 but worry how they can rival in long term.
I get all of that SP but be honest, how much of what you do as a company is just about promotion of a sellers property and how much is also about promotion of you as an estate agent. “Mr/s Seller, I am going to promote your home on two identical portals, with a huge over lap and it probably won’t result in any more viewings that it would if I just advertised on one of them. However I guess we may have 32 people who want to view it as opposed to 30″ Or Mr/s Jones, we are going to advertise your home on one major portal, but we are also going to expand that marketing to a new portal that is receiving a lot of air time right now, presents your property well and perhaps doesn’t produce quite as many tire kickers but those it does produce for you are really quite focussed on your home. So tell me would you rather have 32 day trippers or 15 serious hot to buy prospects?” One of those statements keeps you in the same realms as many of your budget competitors, in fact relying on the customer wanting and seeing value in other services you offer, the other gives you something unique. None of your clients are going to know what possible traffic OTM has, or even care if you deliver the result they want, it does however show that YOU are doing something different!
Its not about viewers to me, i can sell all of my properties many times over, for me its about getting called to valuations.
I am not saying i get valuations from Z directly (well maybe the odd one) but if a potential purchaser is using Z i want them to see my logo so subconsciously i am selling to them. This at the moment i would not get with OTM
But I think as you almost conceded Sp the vals you get from Z and to be fair RM are small potatoes compared to those you get because of you local profile…as proved by the amounts the online only crew have to spend on national advertising. Yes you do need one of them (probably RM) but after that I agree you don’t need the second one for buyers you need it to give you something different to offer vendors on those valuations you are going to get….thats exactly what OTM does for you. Other than curiosity I’m not really interested how many leads it produces for me right now because its about how I use it that counts!
I am obviously not doing a good job explaining or my post was so dull you switched off 😉
Its not the direct vals from Z im after, its the drip feeding of my brand into potential vendors that are using the site.
There are agents that relay on portals for all their business (such as onliners).
There are agents that only measure the worth of the portal on leads that they get either buyers or vals (tend to find this is most agents).
Then there is an agent like myself that are very brand aware, massively into marketing and look at the bigger picture that even if i dont directly get a lead from say Z or RM they have helped me inadvertently get the lead.
I have offices covering a small patch and to be honest if you looked in one area where i am you will look in the others. If a potential seller is seeing my logo upteen times in search result months before they decided to instruct their agent, coupled with board presence and local advertising. I am more likely to get a call when they are after their valuation when looking to sell.
If they are just looking to buy at the moment, not registered with agents, and just typing into a search engine “houses for sale in ***” and i am with OTM they will not get my brand exposed to them as much.
Hope that makes it a little clearer!
This might not be a concern for some agents who have little competition or work in a small area when there are maybe only 3 or 4 competitors. To me its a massive thing, we are all about marketing, all about listing properties and work in a highly competitive area.
I also have a background in marketing and was a senior position at a corporate for years which exposed me to a lot of industry knowledge.
Corporates get a bad rep, but to be honest their ideas and research are usually spot on, they are just unable to roll it out correctly as staff recruitment on the ground level is so poor and they are just interested in targets.
As you know its about your brand, from basic board awarness to every little thing. one of those (not so little in my opinion) is the traffic OTM can (or cant) create for my brand.
And yes like Wilko said if somebody is bleating on about traffic and its poor for vendors to have less exposure thats c**p! (in my opinion).
“but if a potential purchaser is using Z i want them to see my logo so subconsciously i am selling to them”…….Start asking everyone you see where they look at property….and I mean everyone…..It might change your mind about where you think potential buyers look?
Think i’m fighting a loosing battle here or i am just not getting my point across 🙁
I am not saying Z will get me the lead, i am saying it helps increase my brand awareness and for £200 per month per office and the traffic it generates it is a better return then £400 per office with OTM
Even if OTM was £200 per office at the moment i would not advertise with them. As my brand will not be exposed to as many people.
No I followed what you were saying SP I probably went off on a tangent with my reply. I understand you want brand awareness but Wilko isn’t far off the mark because as we have already said the quality from Z is poor, by definition therefore are the people you are trying to target aren’t getting that message you think they are perhaps? Its subjective I know but in my mind the reason Z works for tenants better than sales is and how do I say this delicately, the people drawn to the site are perhaps not homeowner material?!
Ha ha Snob 😉
The tenant thing is interesting though, we do not offer lettings (but keep wondering if i should!) but if we did i would most definitely have to be on Z even RM here have little in regards to lettings.
Oh you really should….its the only thing that really give your business a value!
“not offer lettings (but keep wondering if i should!”…..Don’t do it!!! Don’t cross to the dark side!!!
I think when i have got the time i will explore the opportunity more and maybe bite the bullet and go for it.
Seems silly all that potential income going to waste!
Just that thought of endless phone calls about drains and broken light bulbs that send a shiver down my spine!
If you own your business and ever want to sell it for top money the only companies buying are lettings portfolio led. One tip, don’t do it yourself spend out and get a quality lettings manager or don’t do it at all!
To be fair, you were never one of the silly ones smile (I don’t think the sillies would bother to reply to my comment). But this forum is littered with people who made anti AM comments from the start of its inception (saying it wouldn’t get enough support even for a launch) and who, after it’s launch have been slating it from day 1 stating it has hardly any traffic, compared with the main 2. There are many, like yourself, who may come on board when the traffic and membership increase, but as for the others I would say.
“Give it a rest (regarding traffic figures) and make your comments after at least a year(then 2,3,4 &5)…….that is unless you genuinely think that the traffic should be like z or rm now in which case, I re-iterate, you are just spouting whiney, silly, nonsense
B6RKY…Perhaps Zoopla/prime can focus on the Merseyside area whilst OTM succeed everywhere else, it’ll be like it’s own little island.
Zoopla cannot survive on one area alone!
Ok guys here are some cold hard facts. For OTM to succeed it has to be a nationwide portal. Here are the figures for 5 postcode in my area, Merseyside.
These are the properties listed in order of RM, Z, OTM.
351 290 6
363 325 30
227 212 16
420 411 7
171 192 1
They are pretty damning. It means that every buyer attracted by the OTM launch, which has I presume cost a large bulk of their marketing spend, would have been extremely disappointed in what was on offer. The chances of them returning would be close to nil. As for the budget being further diluted in places like Country Life what a joke. The vast majority of buyers wont be looking there.
I would like anyone to explain to me why
1. Why I would dream of joining OTM based on these figures?
2. Now that OTM have weakened Z’s national coverage why is it not more important to be on both RM & Z at this time to cover all my bases (we think of Primelocation as our best chance at re-location business.) It is still considerably cheaper than the newspaper ads we used to run.
The logic of OTM is sound but the poor implementation and launch may have already proved fatal.
The silver lining may be that with so much advertising focused on the quality publications the ‘high end’ agents may still see it work for them?
Getting dislikes for daring to question the almighty OTM. It’s crazy how obsessed with OTM some agents on this site are.
The good thing about OTM is that because there are people signed up for five year contracts, OTM will have that cash-flow for a while and hopefully those five years will be enough to secure them as a major player in the market.
Or they’ll have extortionate solicitors fee’s for all the agents who’ve broken their agreement and don’t pay up..
I’ve just done the a search on Liverpool and the figures are there for anyone to do too. They do not agree with your figures in any shape or form or are you in Bootle? RM states 1000+, Zoopla 5,275 with 50% price reduced!!! and OTM 2163 in two weeks of launch and non of the corporate agents in your area are signed up to OTM. Paints a different story!
Figures, figures. You did puzzle me Woodentop as I no OTM agents are like rocking horse do dah round here.
So official L postcode figures for OTM (which i have just gone through individually) are:
L1 1 L2 0 L3 12 L4 30 L5 1 L6 9 L7 1 L8 5
L9 81. Yes 81! Fantastic until you see that R LIST 295 and Z LIST 200
L10 16 L11 24 L12 79 L13 15 L14 9 L16 1 L17 5 L18 3 L19 14 L20 12 L21 1 L22 0 L23 DOESNT EXIST L24 6 L25 26 L27 2 L29 0 L30 3L31 28 L32 2 L33 9 L34 16 L35 27 L36 6 L37 1 L38 0
Where there is any coverage it is from Whitegates. This is very depressing for OTM.
However what I did find interesting is a massive surge in L39 241 and L40 119. These areas are normally regarded as Lancashire but Z are only listing 53 and 80 respectively. OTM have killed them in these 2 postcodes. Hmmmmm…… Again to put that into perspective RM v OTM in these 2 are at 441 to 241 and 253 to 119. This does make me realise that OTM may be working in a very limited area to the extent of relegating Z to no.3. But how do they roll that out and beome number 2 in all 40 postcodes? Veiwers to the other 38 are going to be very disappointed. And it is apparent that RM is becoming a stronger monster than ever.
After all these months and thousands of posts it is simply unbelievable that anyone would still be asking WHY they should join? The reason OTM has been created is to combat the relentlessly increasing cost of the major portals, and to give estate agency.uk control of its own internet advertising. It must be blindingly obvious that if 100% of all agents had signed up in the beginning then RM and Z would virtually be history already, but it was too much to hope that we could all take a decision nationally to act in our own best interests. What on earth have the RMZ ever done to deserve such dogged loyalty from all those OTM detractors? RMZ are in a ceaseless drive to take your profits in order to line their shareholders pockets and they don’t care how many of you go under in the process. The stated aim of OTM is to give us an alternative model which will still deliver the leads but will not threaten our profit margin. Of course the success of OTM is entirely dependent upon the support it receives from agents and it is regrettable but perfectly predictable that the competitive nature of estate agents has led to too many companies thinking they can gain a short term advantage over their OTM neighbours by staying off it, but I absolutely guarantee that when the moment arrives in any area when more than 60% of the competition are with OTM, the rest will follow – its always been that way with estate agents. When, not if, that time comes, RM will at last have to change its ways and treat us like the partners in their business that we are.
Robin, I would suggest you research a topic called “Game Theory.”
Robin, may I ask do you play more or less for your marketing spend now or before the advent of the internet?
Before the internet in my area we had 1 paper charging £550 per page. Our other office had 2 papers charging £150 & £175 per page. Per week. Combined spend on RM and Z for products targeted and available 24/7 is a now fraction of this. So what is all the b### about costs have escalated??? If OTM didn’t have its ‘one other portal rule’ I would be advertising on that as well! I would look at it’s performance and maybe (or maybe not) drop one of the portals at some stage. Would it break the bank for me to add an extra £250 to my monthly marketing budget? Of course not. Conversely would I be buying a Bentley if RM slashed its cost by half? Again of course not. I would imagine there are a lot of agents out there who would have joined had OTM thought about their strategy more cogently. It is not to late for a rethink. Those unflexible not to change go to the wall.
Well said Robin, put into words perfectly. Unfortunately you are right, and there are a lot of agents who are happy to just keep seeing their bills from RMZ increase and increase. I hope OTM works and wholeheartedly support it. Imagine if every agent had come on board at the beginning.
If I was dissatisfied with OTM then i’d have no problem with signing back up with Zoopla and breaking the one portal rule.
Well are you? or are you one of those who knows best but not in the industry and likes the sound of their own voice.
Am I what? Foolish enough to have signed up to OTM? Of course not. We all run businesses here, and there’s no value in spending money on something that wont work. Leave Zoopla if they add no value, but to expect OTM to be a better replacement is just absurd.
I am still with Zoopla and totally committed to OTM. However the more they knock OTM the less likely I will stay with them.
Rightmove and Zoopla both forgot who there real customers are and where their data comes from.
I think thats a really good point, I did think the other day that although a number came away from Zoopla there were SOME that chose to stay with them but go on OTM. I find in incredible that a public listed business should choose to issue negative press releases about a competitor rather than promoting its own strengths and risk losing those that remained with them too. Please someone direct me to the business guru that vindicates the way to success is by bad mouthing your competitors!?!
Dropping zoopla was an easy choice for us – Only ever produced a handful of leads that were more often than not poor quality. 16k pa saved dumping zoopla. Enough to employ another member of staff. OTM leads coming through at a good rate. Lifes good and so is the balance sheet.
That’s exactly what we are finding. As they say if you really want to know what is happenings, go to the coal face.
I can endorse that as well although pushing on an open door here!
16k per annum!!?? That’s essentially the same cost of Rightmove.. obviously your negotiation skills are awful cause my fees were a fraction of that.
Numbers aren’t likely to go down two weeks after launch. Bronze membership comes with a 12 month contract and 6 month break clause doesn’t it? Until half year these numbers are only going to rise, so that shouldn’t be an indication of agent satisfaction.
“Numbers aren’t likely to go down two weeks after launch.”…Really well that is not what Zoopla have you believe, apparently agents are going back to Zoopla in their droves and finding all sorts of ways to get round the ‘one other portal’ rule etc. If this carries on then by month 6 why would anyone leave OTM to go back to Z. Z know that they have one or two months as after that OTM would have gained a foothold and it will then be a matter of time as to when everyone else jumps on board,
What’s important here is that the numbers (now 4700) are going up and not down, it clearly shows that Zoopla’s battle plan is not working, they have underestimated the resolve of the agents on board who are not just going to come running back to Zoopla after a few weeks or months as reported on Wednesday.
Zoopla have also overestimated the real value that their site offers, it appears business as usual for most agents who appear completely un affected by dropping Zoopla. The leads are still coming in and deals are still being done. Perhaps all these hits that Z are reporting is due to people having a ‘double take’ and having to look back on to the site to check why there is such a lack of stock!
Isn’t it amazing how OTM seems to polarise views. Have a look at all the other items this morning. None of them has produced anything like the comments here. I’m not sure we can all keep this up for the next five years! I’m just looking forward to when there are only two to comment on.
Obviously it’s not a short term event. After all, some poor souls are locked in for five year contracts.
I’ve had 10 years of Wrongmove and Z so 5 years looks good value to me. In my 5 years I will probably only end up paying what I do for one year on WM and Z. It’s all about the long term.
It might be less money, but if you’re not getting the leads you would get from Rightmove, you’re still losing money.
What leads? Do you not think agents have not made an informed decision on which portal to drop? Or do you think they flipped a coin? They would have worked out that portal a or b doesn’t bring in enough leads, so they can afford to drop it, hence not affecting their business, but at the same time supporting OTM a portal for agents, owned by agents. I suspect if OTM did fail, whichever portal got dropped will not be added back again and the agents will continue with just the one portal they chose. Meanwhile all the corporates negotiators and managers that would like to be OTM but can’t be will peddle the story that by not being on the No1 and the No 2 (at the moment) will affect the ability of these agents to sell their home?!!! Story but correct me if I am wrong, but there are loads of agents on every bl**dy portal there is and they STILL can’t get market share, do a decent job, selling houses!! If all you have got in your locker to win an instruction, is the other agent isn’t on all the portals, give up and go home. Plenty of agents make a good living being on one or none of these portals. Portals don’t sell houses, people do!!!
“Pirate” you are clearly not an estate agent. Do us all a favour and play somewhere else you are a TROLL you clearly do not know what you are talking about.
You’re so right. I disagree with the cult of OTM and therefore I’m a troll.
The reality is that people can’t handle the idea that ORM might not be the greatest thing to ever happen. I’d love it if OTM was bigger, it’d save us literally thousands of pounds every year because we could come off Rightmove. The fact of the matter is that it’s simply not the case at the moment.
Yes it is, give it a try you will be surprised if you really are an estate agent.
Sorry, Woodentop – it is the greatest thing to ever happen or it is bigger than RM? Or both?
Your statement needs clarifying….because it’s gold.
RM & Z & OTM & Tom Dick and Harry web portal are really no different. They advertise properties. The argument all the time is over who is the biggest. OTM has never made out it will be the biggest on start-up BUT there is no reason why it cannot grow to that stature. It is certainly bigger than any other property portal on start-up. As for RM & Z they didn’t get where they are today on their own, far from it. It was from the support by the agents. If the agents pull the plug and go elsewhere …. well the writing is on the wall and that is exactly what is happening with Z. RM are worried sick that OTM will then come gunning for them and rightly so, for they have abused the business relationship with their customer, not the public but the customers who feed them stock that keeps them afloat and pays them…… the estate agent.
If agents don’t stand up to the escalating portal rises, for example a 15% increase in portal prices over a 5 year period equates just over 100% increase in fees, set against inflation running at say 2% equating to 10.5% increase, the charging model will likely become unsustainable for the ones who decide to stay but will they have anywhere to go unless OTM is successful. If you are in this business for the long run say another 20 years a 15% rise per annum will equate to in excess of 16 fold increase in fees with an inflation estimate on the same basis giving a 1.5 fold increase. So let’s say you have a good rate with your portal at the moment say £650 plus VAT, are you prepared to stay the course and in 20 years time pay £10,400 per month plus VAT? At what stage do you say enough enough?
I agree that Rightmove is severely gouging agents but when so many agents that go with OTM choose to stay with RM and drop Zoopla, I just have reservations about how effective it will be.
Wait till the honeymoon period is over. You may find agents drop RM in their droves. They wanted to see OTM works, and it does before they do
Stats help as members can see a return on their investment, and witness a growth in traffic rather than being kept in the dark and given the ‘trust me I’m on a six figure salary to look after you guys’. Yes we all know the numbers will be less than the big two but by not being open, and allowing us all to see growth over a short period of time (when the big budget is being spent) it’s not giving anyone any confidence. I know of agents locally who have not yet even been contacted by OTM since day one, and another who has not had emails returned etc…
Yorkshire Agent, it seems that the Agents of Yorkshire have gone mad for on the market. I just don’t understand why the branding in so many agents windows doesn’t feature the name of the site as prominently as it does the target logo. I drove through Ilkley the other day and it looked like a Mod revival had joined the RAF to sponsor a Paul Weller gig.
Interestedobserver. Well it must be working because it has caught your attention and doubt everybody else who saw them. Nothing better in being talked about as this continues to raise awareness. We for one are making it very clear we support OTM in our high street windows, if any readers are members make sure you are too.
How can you get a dislike to that post?
I thought that!
Because at least one is from Harree!!
To be honest, I was looking for the branding – otherwise I’d be a disinterested observer – or uninterested? – anyway, the point is the logo stood out but not the brandname/website. That’s not a good thing at this stage in my opinion. I’d have extensively played on the name “Putting your home On The Market? come in an talk to us’ etc etc. The logo looks so much like a number of iconic images that it’s association with OTM must be more explicit. All that said, credit to the agents involved for such a united approach in Yorkshire.
Hang on a minute you did recognise the branding! I also question how the name band name Zoopla has any connection with property sales. Sounds more like something to do with a zoo and we all know what you find there, Monkeys (sorry couldn’t resist it, at least I’ll give someone the chance to give more dislikes, lol).
OTM launched with a five year plan so why all the high expectations of market dominance within the first couple of weeks?
Instead of daily ******** on here (so boring) lets just all make our choice & get on with our jobs ? I dropped RM 18 months ago and just use Z. I’m not on OTM, that’s my choice & I have to say it works for me. Most valuations I win because I talk about our Agencies strengths, my service & how I market their property. New instructions have gone up in the last 3 weeks thanks to a number of Agents in my area choosing OTM (thanks for that!). On these forums a lot of you moan about RM yet you stick with them tear after year and pay their annual price hikes (and keep them in the No.1 spot… All very strange if you ask me. Got to dash, off to win another valuation!
BD_IndpendentAgent. I can relate to what you say with respect to dropping RM, we many months ago we left what became Zoopla, with no noticeable negative change to our business. It is my intention to drop RM soon encouraged by the increase in traffic that OTM is attracting by the week to my business and particularly the vast increase of enquiries into my own website, which I expect will optimise my site by the back door. Why would you not want to support what I see as the ‘White Knight’ of our industry?
I commented on this over a year ago. We ditched Z years ago (never to return) as it had no presence. We also did the same with RM three times and each time our sales went up, our mailing list did not go down. Our competitors hit us with vendors looking to list and was the only reason to return but now OTM is now the dominant web portal in our area and the customers are flocking to it and vendors who have been on RM for a long time with our competitors are fed up with the hype and promises by RM agents and switching over to us. A case of the shoe now being on the other foot. Also an interesting fact, we get more enquiries from our own web site than all the combined web portals we have been on over the last 20 years.
It’s amazing that Ian has managed to respond so quickly with accurate member sign ups but won’t give any info as to consumer users other than ‘No it’s higher than hitwise say, take my word for that’ You can have every agent in the uk on there but if no one is looking you don’t have a portal. And I think OTM need to have some pressure to talk about what agents are getting back.
Why should he? To prove to you that they have less than zoopla and rightmove? Of course they have less! Is it so you can shout about how rightmove and zoopla are bigger? Of course they’re bigger! It’s always easy backing the big boys, but who’d have thought that another property site would have come this far and with the backing of 4,700 offices within 3 weeks of launch!? Adding numbers to the membership is what’s important here, it’s only been three weeks And it’s a ****** good achievement. If you’re a fence sitter then think carefully about the next few years and how OTM will naturally grow further and how it’s perfect for your agency. If you really hate it – it’s ok, we forgive you and won’t hold it against you, there’s nothing wrong or shameful in changing your mind and signing up with the rest of us… after all you hide behind a silly username so we don’t know who you are anyway.
Completely disagree Mark. The membership numbers are pretty useless without context. For all we know, the additional 100 agents may have just planned to join on the 1st of Feb rather than the 26th Jan. Or more likely, they were just waiting for the implementation weekend to pass without incident before committing. I’d be very surprised if more than a handful had joined because they now thought OTM was a better proposition than RM or Zoopla.
What is important, if Ian is throwing stats around, is the number of hits to the website and how that is growing with all the advertising, and how that is then feeding through to actual enquiries.
They are the only stats that matter right now.
like I said – the hits will naturally be lower than RM and Zoopla, so why publish them on here for you all to slate and comment about? Tell me – if the hits are that important, what’s your benchmark? How many hits do OTM need for it to be acceptable for you? 500,000? 1million?
Thats why I said agent numbers are worth reporting as it means more stock. Buyers will then start to naturally follow where the stock is. It’s a process and it will take longer than three weeks.
I don’t think you quite get it Mark. You can have as many properties on OTM as you like but if they are replicated on RM, and you haven’t convinced the public to change their habits and move away from Rightmove then you’ll fail.
That’s why reporting the impact of a very expensive tv campaign is important. Because if it’s not having an effect, it won’t be long before the funds run dry and Ian starts asking for more.
I do get it, completely and yes stats will matter at some point. But I certainly don’t think you can say that replicating listings is going to make it fail… Was zoopla a failure? After all they had the same listings as rightmove?
I believe people accept and expect the traffic to be lower but the rate of acceleration matters. Once hitwise/comScore /similarweb/Ga stats are available for Feb and March IS silence won’t matter. The trends will be evident even if the Base numbers are disputed.
Hi Mark, i’m Anna, lovely to get aquatinted. I hope that helps my comments validity and that i’m not ‘hiding’ or as ‘silly’ as you might have originally concluded. you misunderstand my point, I am not interested how they are preforming in relation to the ‘big 2’ however I am interested in consumer opinion and behaviour with the portal. Firstly are people seeing the marketing and reacting – or are they so ingrained with the big brands they don’t even bother, and secondly once they have visited has the experience been positive enough to make them return. of course the views of the big 2 will eclipse the number – that’s nothing OTM should be afraid of – but if they don’t see steady growth then that is a sign that all isn’t well.
The public certainly are reacting to OTM. If not you are not doing your job correctly! or are you sitting on your backsides being reactive and not proactive.
My company joined OnTheMarket.com for the long term! I hope that OTM is the opposite of Zoopla…. that we won’t settle for No2 Portal, that we won’t lack drive, determination and a strategy to move thru No2 spot to No1. I have no interest in settling, as Zoopla have, for No2 portal!
Really? ….. You should have said.
Haha! What planet are you on? Have you seen how aggressively Zoopla have gone after the number one spot?
They must have spent 10’s of £m’s. Settling for number 2? I think you’re talking No.2 GPL.
What’s that I can smell digitalexpert?….. uhuh!…. it’s you talking! Fernando Torres!?….. how much spent?…. waste of time! No2 spot is effectively last!…. not worth having! Dump Zoopla! Rightmove are No1 for now. Watch OnTheMarket continue to grow! Your admission that Zoopla have failed with their millions to move from No2 tells me this….. it’s not solely about money….. it’s about where the stock is…. and in turn the audience follow! Zoopla & Rightmove can spend Billions!…. however if little or no stock to look at?….. what’s the point. You mistake the advertiser as being in control?…. with no worthwhile stock they are effectively worthless…. Zoopla stock down say 25%!?….. after 3 weeks! Let’s just say the change has just begun!
There are about 20 portals/websites with more stock than OTM.
On The Market is a niche property website, with niche levels of stock in small pockets around the UK. Now it’s in the real world, and all cloaks and daggers are exposed, there’s no hiding place.
I’m glad I kept my clients off it. I was right to do so.
Your delusion is baffling, and hugely entertaining. Good job you’re not a solicitor – my admission (sorry?) that the national brand, Zoopla with 50m visits a month according to latest stats has failed? Didn’t it go public with a value of £1bn? I’d kill for that level of failure.
The consumer, your customer, is in control, GPL. Remember them?
Forgive me…. I’m in control!…. dumped Zoopla!…. no difference to my business at all! Backed OTM for 5 Years! Kept Rightmove, sadly!… for now! For my business Zoopla is a Dead Portal Walking! You don’t know me, my business, my consumers so save your stats for like minded folk! The shame is Zoopla could have taken No 1 spot however they failed & settled for No 2. I didn’t back OnTheMarket for No2 spot?… it will have to be No1 as I don’t need 2 portals, not as we see do many others and the consumer will follow the property. To be honest OTM aren’t concerned about Zoopla, it’s Rightmove that matters!…. remember them digitalexpert…. when you look up at them, standing in their shadow…. as you have done for years! If OTM wanted No2 spot I wouldn’t have bothered…. and that’s why I don’t bother about you as a No2 Portal Supporter or Zoopla. All the other portals are just noise….. this end is the business end and No2 is a stepping stone, sadly you and Zoopla were content to set up camp there with no intention of pushing on! Oh, Everest Summit said Hilary?….. nope…. summit’s too hard, too difficult…. we’ll just camp here halfway up and dream of the summit! OnTheMarket must march on or there is no point….. and if we don’t march on UK Estate Agency will be flushed down the portal toilet!
GPL, your posts remind me of Rowley Birkin QC, the brilliant Fast Show character. Zoopla!.. Rightmove…. Edmund and Torres and a very startled marmoset. But then of course… I was very, very etc etc. Apologies if you are not familiar with the character. This will make no sense to you.
Colonel Melchett…. without the tache…. without the husband…. firmly with Lady Melchett!
I want some of what this guy is smoking
Just! Because! You! Shout! And! Exclemate! Every! Point! Doesn’t! Make! What! You! Say! Real!
Who signs 5 year deals with anything? Would you sign 5 year deals with the most proven of media? I wouldn’t. Things change so quickly in 2015. Amazing.
Most start ups fail, almost all internet start ups fail, and without the right innovation (there is zero innovation on OTM) things quickly become obsolete. Just ask MySpace.
Have a good weekend, and rest up – you’re going to need your strength! 🙂
digitalexpert….. sorry, does my passion for my business ruffle your gentle feathers…… you use the word F! A! I! L! U! R! E! a great deal, you clearly have grown to accept F! A! I! L! U! R! E! The only strength I need is to deal with those that accept F! A! I! L! U! R! E! ….. No 2 Portal with millions spent…..as some kind of success?…. sadly the SUCCESS award must go to Rightmove for now! They at least demonstrate they don’t want to be No 2 To Zoopla…. hence both yourself & Zoopla must gaze longingly up the @rs£ of RM! Have a failtastic weekend!
You need to be more careful with your laptop, GPL. It appears your grandson accessed your PIE account over the weekend..
It’s called commitment DE but, since you don’t have a business, you wouldn’t understand this part of commerce.
Blind commitment is not a good trait in performance based marketing.
Extraordinary that people would take such an emotive risk with no discernible benefit to your customers. And for 5 years! The market is changing so quickly.
I wish you all well.
Well DE… you’ll not be surprised to learn that your application to become part of the Mission to Mars Team was declined! The interview panel noted your narrow mind and lack of commitment, and your comment that if if couldnt be reached in a year then in your view there was no point? Once again DE…. a fail for you.