OnTheMarket agents have been told that membership levels are running ahead of expectations and are “much higher” than had originally been anticipated – with the result that more has been spent on marketing.
Total spend for this year will be over £12m, with at least the same investment planned for next year.
A TV advertising campaign will run, to catch the New Year market.
Progress on membership recruitment is “very encouraging”, OTM boss Ian Springett tells members in an email sent out today.
Reporting on the Letters of Intent programme which began at the end of June, Springett said the target is to reach total support of at least 7,500 offices.
He says in the email: “This will be a significant achievement as we estimate that, if the new members make the same portal choices as our existing members have made, we will have more available UK residential listings than Zoopla – the Tipping Point.
“Progress so far is very encouraging – total support including Letters of Intent is already well over 6,000 offices, of which 90% are contracted offices.
“That is an increase in support of more than30% since launch.
“We will make further announcements as interim milestones are reached on the way to the Tipping Point.”
In the email, Springett also discusses Zoopla.
He tells member agents: “You will no doubt be aware of the persistent negative propaganda being peddled by our detractors in the trade media and elsewhere.
“The context for this is the threat your portal poses to the current and future profitability and stock market value of the duopoloy portals and the soon-to-be-floated online agency businesses which exist on the back of them.
“In particular, Zoopla Property Group will soon announce its financial results for the 12 months to 30 September 2015.
“These are expected to include the eight-month impact on its income of the thousands of agents it has lost to OnTheMarket.com since we launched
“We can expect ZPG to try to persuade investors that OnTheMarket.com is a “short-term event”, that our growth in agent membership has stalled and that we are failing to gain traction with consumers.
“The reality about our growth is that since our launch in January, our contracted office numbers have increased by more than 17% and the pace of our growth is building.”
In the email, Springett also says that October was another record month for traffic with more than 5,7m visits, of which over 60% were from repeat visitors.
In strong defence the ‘one other portal’ rule, Springett says it is “necessary to enable your new portal to enter and become established in a market dominated by two large and powerful media groups, Rightmove and ZPG.
“Rightmove remains by a considerable distance the dominant market leader, so it is unsurprising that over 90% of our members have chosen to retain it as their one other portal.
“Rightmove is now the only portal which has anything close to 100% of available property listings.
“Since Rightmove was already dominant, this does not change its ‘must-have’ status or its pricing power over agents.
“By contrast, Zoopla’s loss of consumer traffic share and member agents is well document and, in our view, supports the recent description of Zoopla in the FT Lombard column as the ‘dispenable number two’.
“Many members tell us that leading Zoopla has had no adverse impact on their businesses and that the number of leads now provided by Rightmove and OnTheMarket.com equals or exceeds the number they were previously receiving from Rightmove and Zoopla.
“Having made a successful and disruptive entry to the market, our next strategic objective is to overtake Zoopla in terms of available UK residential listings.
“From that point we will develop and grow into the sustainably low-cost alternative to Rightmove to serve both agents and consumers better.
“The market does not need three major portals.
“If there are to be two (or fewer), one has agent owned, with supporting your industry and serving consumers as its priorities rather than concentrating on feeding the demands of external shareholders.
“From our daily conversations, we know that the vast majority of independent agents recognise this and want Agents’ Mutual to succeed.”
Comments (99)
Ladies, gentlemen and online Estate Agents – I give you BEN REDWAY.
Don’t wazz him off – apparently his defence mechanism is to then ‘Dislike’ his own posts and then accuse you of it for effect.
Diddums.
I really have got your back up!
If you read the posts I accused you of liking your posts and disliking mine!
Clearly you want the last word, Mr Redway. You won’t be happy until you have it.
Zyzzyva. There you go – call it a gift from me.
Thanks. Now off to chess club!
Pleased to see that finally you’ve got the hang of giving yourself the ‘Likes’ and my posts the ‘Dislikes’.
Doing it the other way round to claim it was me was transparently idiotic.
Obviously I’ve upset one of your ickle fwiends with what I’ve said.
I’m sorry. Wheely wheely sorry.
Sorry that they have got neither the b0ll0cks nor the ability to try to fight their own battles.
Shame, really. I – and the EYE readership – expect better of them.
Why are you confused? Surely you know how many listings you have? Or are you out of touch with your own agency too as well as the industry!
Just pointing out to the readers of eye that you are criticising P Bricks when you have a mere fraction of the listings they have.
No, Mr Redway – I know EXACTLY how many listings I have – which is far more than I can say about YOUR belief.
Your point is frankly idiotic. It matters not how many listings I have – NONE of them are ‘re-listings’ – and THAT was the criticism I was making.
You seem not to be bothered that certain Agencies fluff up their feathers by #portaljuggling and #pricejuggling.
Is that your idea of ‘the future’ of our industry, Mr Redway? Those that RE-list the most can legally claim to be the best Agent? That the Agent who achieves the highest % OVER the Asking Price by starting all bids at a quid is deemed the most successful?
Just what kind of “meddling in the market for the better” is it that you actually want to see happen, Mr Redway, as per your posts of 12 November? What exactly are the changes to the industry you want to see implemented?
I have no doubt that those working within it would be very interested indeed…
Oh dear PeeBee, I seem to have got your back up. You don’t like it when the spotlight starts falling on you.
I’ll continue to meddle on eye to expose the likes of you and any others whose sole purpose seems to be to criticise others for the sake of their own plumped up fame on this forum. Your rants don’t actually do the industry any good.
“I’ll continue to meddle on eye to expose the likes of you and any others whose sole purpose seems to be to criticise others for the sake of their own plumped up fame on this forum.”
OWN FAME? I post ANONYMOUSLY, you complete, utter eejit.
As far as getting my back up – don’t flatter yourself unnecessarily. WAAAAY bigger and better have tried and failed miserably. I’m certain you’ll not take kindly to being relegated to the level of rank amateur – but if you don’t like criticism then you shouldn’t stick your head above the parapet because it’s the easiest target since Bishop Brennan’s @r$e.
I’m coasting, pal. You’re running flat out and hate it that I’m overtaking you. I won’t need to let you know if I decide to put myself into gear – the slipstream will take your head clean off.
By the way – whoever you seem to believe I am (woefully incorrect, by the way, but then so seems to be your entire opinion of our industry – so much so that I sincerely hope you’re not actually active in it…) may be perfectly happy with their 11 instructions.
Don’t knock what you don’t understand.
What an ego! A legend in your own lunchtime!
You REALLY don’t understand this whole ‘anonymity’ thing – do you?
Bless…
By the way… are you ‘Disliking’ your own comments and ‘Liking’ mine for some perverse reason best known to yourself?
It seems we are the only two people here so I don’t see who else can be doing it – and it certainly ain’t me.
I’m playing with you PeeBee. Just wanted to see how quick you are to get angry. You can tell by the CAPS in your posts!
Have a good evening – see you next time !
Oh… I can’t wait.
Nah… just forget to use bold.
I never get angry with special people. It’s not their fault.
Outrageous – using the term ‘special people’ in any reference is disability bigotry. That’s wholly unacceptable! You should be ashamed of yourself.
Did you just dislike my posts and like yours? How childish!
Harree – above you state
“Seeing as PB have increased their stock from c250 to c5000 in less than a year of serious advertising and are currently adding c40 properties a day … I think I am justified in expressing my opinion.”
Have you actually LOOKED at these “c40 properties a day”, Harree? Checked them for accuracy?
Try THIS one – http://www.zoopla.co.uk/for-sale/details/38172878#1eDmp1K1OeuKQQ5h.97 – supposedly listed yesterday. Then check it on RM+ – note the date it first appeared.
Or how’s about this one – http://www.zoopla.co.uk/for-sale/details/38226298#hRvmYgLl3RXTSHS0.97 ? Oh, look – same result.
That’s just TWO examples taken out of the last SIX properties listed.
33% NOT “new”.
Have a look at the last 3 listings that appear as “Under Offer” – TWO of them are re-listed.
Care to have a stab at WHY, Harree?
ouch! Peebee! What a shame this is already in archive! Potential investor won’t see that but it goes to show how a small band of well motivate people can attempt to defend honesty.
Erm. as you know I’m not a big fan of the onlinies but I’m not sure PeeBee you’re in a position to criticise anyone when you yourself only have 11 listings to your name!
Peebee? Peebee? Where forte are though Peebee?
JAM01 – are you inciting bother on EYE?
Shame on you! ;o)
Feel free to explain that post, Mr Redway – you’ve shot that one clean over my head!
Exactly that – “I’m not sure PeeBee you’re in a position to criticise anyone when you yourself only have 11 listings to your name!” Or do you think ‘you’ are impervious to criticism?
Not at all. as long as it is correct and justified.
I’m just confused by the “…you yourself have only 11 listings to your name” bit.
Care to enlighten me and your audience as to what you are making this statement is based upon?
I’m intrigued.
GPL …..hats off to you as you are possibly the most passionate OTM supporter out there.
I often disagree with most of what you say (and you do go over the top from time to time which does not help your cause) but not what you stand for. No agent in their right mind would disagree with the concept but the majority still disagree with the way OTM have realised its product.
OTM members were sold a dream and even those who signed up for 5 years will be hard pressed to honour that commitment should the dream fail to materialise.
Growth is the problem and it can be quantified very easily. OTM need to grow so how can they do that? What can they offer all those naysayers and fence sitters that hasn’t already been offered?
I just hope that OTM ultimately deserve your support and that the conspiracy theorists are wrong. My fear is that OTM, after having made a strong start, has now stagnated through an inability to adapt/change and are in danger of missing a great opportunity. This press release is all smoke and mirrors with no substantial claims.
Sadly I, like many others, cannot support OTM in it’s current format. And make no mistake for OTM to grow it needs people like me (or many others not like me) to be convinced. Words won’t cut it, actions will!
B6RKY….. I agree with your comment that diehards supporting OTM will not guarantee its success…… however the current membership are breathing life into OTM and providing the gateway for growth….. I personally don’t have a set member growth target other than continual growth, which is happening, the current/continual growth is clear evidence that OnTheMarket.com is building… and still less than 1 Year Old.
I see several Tipping Points and so far the growth continues…… any business that continues to grow and has the level of financial & member support that OTM has is in a positive position.
Estate Agency United 1 – Duopoly 0 is a “victory” if one takes the football analogy
or EAU 10 – D 3? …..still a victory!
This Portal Game doesn’t last 90 Minutes! …..and I didn’t sign-up for only 90 Minutes!
NEW OTM Members are welcome every day or week or month… we’re still growing!
Hi Paul,
So why the big mystery about the numbers in a press release all about the numbers?
I would guess that if the numbers were good we would have been told already. I suspect that they are not and that is why they are still secret.
If the numbers were good I would be screaming them out and creating a snowball effect to get others to rush and join. This project will ultimately succeed or fail on membership numbers/stock on website and not on the beliefs of the diehards.
I’ve no idea why the mystery on the numbers. But if I were a betting man if say it’s more to do with timing than numbers.
I’ve had to reply here Smile…”I guess you have faith the letters of intent are infact credible and working then?”…Yes I do actually, like you I have no idea how many have signed the letters but I have a feeling that there will be enough that will contract when asked to.
“As a member is there anything you would change at this stage or are you happy with the current offerings?” 3 months ago yes, which is when I wrote to agents mutual, but not now. If there was a need to do anything drastic like reduce fees or sign agents up on a one month rolling contract then it would have been done by now, but clearly there is no need to, AM seem confident they will hit their target.
Smile said “How about this as an aggressive marketing campaign aimed at recruiting new members. Sign up to OTM before the 1 year anniversary for a 4 year contract get the first 6 months for free and then the remaining 3.5 years at an equal rate across all membership to bring in £16 million per annum.”
I suggested a 3 month free period for all and was advised that it was not required. If it were then i’m sure we would know about it by now.
Hi Paul,
Thanks for the clarification. I did misunderstand your figures.
However there seem to only be 600 letters of intent (according to OTM figures above?)
Why release this statement unless either
1) Membership numbers were significantly higher (if so tell us the black and white figure) or
2) A substantial number of letters of intent had been signed to activate the tipping point (2100 would potentially take membership to 7500)
This press release seems to only confirm the potential existence of 600 letters of intent? This is hardly earth shattering and in reality is very disappointing.
I feel OTM are missing a unique window of opportunity that may not come again for any of us. The old adage of ‘you only get one chance to make a first impression’ springs to mind.
“However there seem to only be 600 letters of intent”… I thought they said that the “total support including letters of intent is well over 6000”. For all we know there could be 5700 on the site now, 500 that have signed contracts to go live in January and 10 letters of intent, saying that it would be a poor show if there was only 10 letters of intent.
Targets Paul? I don’t understand your figures based on what OTM are saying today. Do you think they have 4600 letters of intent plus the 5400 existing members? Not according to OTM:
‘Total support including Letters of Intent is already well over 6,000 offices, of which 90% are contracted offices.’
If 5400 are signed that means just over 600 letters of intent? Or does ‘well over 6000’ mean 6100, 6200, 6500? It can’t mean 7000 or they would say 7000.
To be honest I am not in the least interested in those 600 (or whatever the number is unless it is substantial). I want to know how many agents are signed up now. Black and white answer. If it’s still 5400 OTM has stagnated and hit a wall. If it’s 6000 and OTM has gained over 10% membership in the last 6 weeks I will be sitting up and taking notice. It will be perfectly clear whether to feel optimistic of pessimistic for OTM based on the factual/actual membership number.
However alarm bells ring when a press release stating membership levels are higher than anticipated doesn’t actually give a definitive figure.
B6RKY, I think you’ve misunderstood.
In 2013 the first gold membership package was launched with a target of 1000 letters of intent required before being asked to contract, 1800 was achieved even though roughly 2200 had signed letters of intent.
Throughout the whole of 2014, agents were asked to sign a letter of intent with a view to committing to contract once 4000 were achieved, it turnt out that 4600 signed up as either gold or silver members.
Since June of this year OTM has been asking agents to sign a letter of intent and apparently there are over 6000.
What i’m saying is that I think Agents Mutual will only ask agents to commit once they are confident in achieving 7500.
The target for the first letter of intent was 1000, the amount achieved was 1800.
For the second letter of intent the target was 4000 and 4600 was achieved.
If history is anything to go by then Agents Mutual will not be asking for agents to sign until they are supremely confident that 7500 will sign up.
It appears that we have an interesting few months ahead.
Wilko.
You queried me on a previous thread about sellers ‘moving in droves’ to online agents like Purplebricks.
Seeing as PB have increased their stock from c250 to c5000 in less than a year of serious advertising and are currently adding c40 properties a day … I think I am justified in expressing my opinion.
In this thread a ‘tipping point’ for OTM is mentioned and in the same way there will be a tipping point for online agents in general. I’ve said many times, in reply to the cynical who have repeatedly mentioned 2% market share as ‘proof’ that sellers aren’t interested on OEA, that this low market share is simply down to the fact that 98% of sellers didn’t know this selling option existed.
TV advertising by the likes of Purplebricks, Emoov and Hatched has, and will continue, to rapidly make sellers aware of the online option and the cost savings available – if Purplebricks, as a new company with a relatively new and unknown service, can expand their stock to current levels in less than one year … where will their stock be after 1,2,3 years of continued advertising, greater name and service benefit awareness and more credibility aided by ‘1000s of happy customers’ ?
If online reaches 10% market share within three years that in my opinion would relate to droves of sellers choosing that option. And it wouldn’t surprise me if it was 20%+ within three years.
Any agent who laughs this possibility off and doesn’t strategise for dealing with a change in seller attitude, towards traditional fees especially, may find the joke is on them.
As said in my previous post, the likes of Purplebricks will spawn locally operated onliners and hybrids all capitalizing on the increased awareness and credibility of low fee estate agency businesses. If anything, they will be just as big a threat to traditional High St agents as the national brands.
“Any agent who laughs this possibility off and doesn’t strategise for dealing with a change in seller attitude, towards traditional fees especially, may find the joke is on them.”………
What business would lower their prices/service if their customers were happy with the service and price they receive…..We’ve posted record profits this year with 100’s of amazing endorsements and reviews etc. Those that want to pay £100-£500 to sell their property online aren’t my customers, they aren’t interested in our offering – they want online…..so why should I change our model???….I don’t see Apple slashing their I-pad prices because one of their competitors (with 1.5% share of the tablet/phone market) is a fifth of the price!
A national estate agent that commands around 1.5 % of total market share after a multi million pound national TV advertising campaign is not attracting sellers away in their droves from the high street agents. Unless you think 1.5 % is an amazing achievement for the millions they have spent?
If PB were doing exceptionally well or was even profitable then there would not be a rush for its owners to float it.
Online agents rely 100% on Rightmove and Zoopla to generate leads. If those professional high street agents move 98% of stock from those sites onto a site that online agents cannot use then only a fool would say that it wouldn’t seriously risk their existence, and I understand that is why they want OTM to fail….it makes logical business sense to them.
That is why I am 100% behind OTM. The online companies have their business interests at heart and I have our business interests at heart. Our company business interests include providing an exceptional full agency service to home movers, which I would like to continue for many years…..and I can’t do that for £500.
Harree…… PB Listing Houses is not Selling Houses!
5000 Purple Apples in the Window….. but how many sold?
Of course with Purplebricks there is No need to sell any houses….. when you have already been paid!
It’s a joke…… and an overpriced one!
NEWS FLASH! Duopoly in Danger!
So, OnTheMarket.com have my Company’s funding for just over the next 4 Years, along with thousands of others!….. seems a pretty positive position/outlook to me…. and despite The Detractors we witness no mass exodus of OTM Members nearly 1 Year on? …..and the membership grows! I care less about the politics of numbers and more about the benefits of OTM Growth.
…..as we all know, The Taxis lined up at Zoopla as so many exited the No2 Portal that was as effective as the last portal in The Top 100 Portals as chosen by Tony Portal Blackburn…. the famous PopPortalPicker!
So, Dear Detractors….. I’ll set the scene at Duopoly HQ….. how do we buy our way out of the problem that is OnTheMarket.com……. all those Blank Faces…… the realisation that The Duopoly CAN’T BUY their way out of The OTM Problem!!!
OnTheMarket.com is a major issue for The Duopoly….. downplay it any way you wish Dear Detractors….. however, The Estate Agency Industry has the opportunity to help grow an Industry Portal which serves consumers & members without the shareholding/excessive profit taking that is The Duopoly Hallmark…. we witness the shareholder/consumer Duopoly Portals gathering their member fees and then ploughing them into their Duopoly business, mainly for their Duopoly benefit!
The Duopoly have no interest in the future of the UK Estate Agency Industry….. they merely pick away at it until they strip the carcass and will then move on! Witness the rise & inevitable fall of the QuickDumbFunding Wannabee Portals that step briefy on the stage only seeking to cash-in and move on!
The UK Estate Agency Industry needs OnTheMarket.com….. enabling the voice of its industry to be heard loud & clear above the PortalProfitTakers!
The worst part of this whole portal debate is the Press Releases and Spinning Numbers, from all sides….. yet the debate from the UK Estate Agency Industry’s viewpoint should be lasered on OUR INDUSTRY and how WE best move our Online Industry forward rather than sitting blindly in the back of The Duopoly Taxi and being driven wherever they want! Make no mistake that WE serve our clients and consumers however WE must have the courage to step away from The Duopoly and manage our own industry…… or we will get dumped at the roadside one day!
OTM Management and direction can and will be better however under The Duopoly our industry has No Voice, No Input and No Opportunity to take our industry forward…… we are on so many levels better than PsuedoOnlineSaverPropertyListers! & The Duopoly…..however if we don’t drive that message home collectively then we will no doubt win many smaller battles however we may miss winning the biggest one of them all!
I’m sure I heard a comment that even the reps are begging for the letters of intent to be signed so they can show their bosses what a good job they’ve done.
(if that interpretation is total twaddle from a OTM hater on here or the other site I apologise)
Most people think the letters of intent are a useless idea – I’m with you all.
To be honest hindsight is a great tool, we can all say it hasn’t worked and all these decisions are flawed but at the time enough people must have agreed – Springett is not a dictatorship. 5,500 agency branches thought it was a good idea and most of these new letters of intent and other strategies are trying to help towards what was not as clear cut a need for OTM as AM thought.
In times where lots of Estate agents are just barely keeping their head above water the thought (rightly or wrongly) that going to OTM will lose them a huge revenue stream was maybe too much of a gamble right now. We are all told the property market will crash soon and who would want to be signed up for 5 years to a portal that may or may not be able to deliver? OTM asked for lots of commitment and I think the main flaw was the fact that timing is everything and maybe this wasn’t the right time for this exact approach.
If OTM Adapt and survive I may get on that boat.
I hear what you say. But letters of intent show that potentially there is definitely enough support for the self owned portal idea.
There is another 4 years or so to try and work on ways to get these interested parties to go for it. Fact is, those that have signed the letters of intent certainly want the idea to work and I hope that , maybe with the right negotiations, that OTM may adapt and survive…. as you say at the end of your post.
Zoopla will reflect losses of subs c £1.5 – £2million I believe. How will that affect their share price, regardless of how anyone perceives the progress of OTM?
Its a bit of smoke and mirrors. nothing to really boast about.
6000 members INCLUDING LETTERS OF INTENT 90% are already contracted in other words 5400 offices which is what it was from launch.
Good to finally see OTM come out fighting but these figures are dire.
If an online agent was manipulating figures like this they would be pulled to pieces on here.
Most of the listings on RM and Zoopla are manipulated Smile! 🙂
Yes that VERY true!
But we also rip them for that as well 😉
Smile…., What’s really sad is that the letters of intent are clearly from those who approve of the idea but are holding back until others make the commitment. If they made that commitment together then tipping point would be reached immediately and the portal would move from strength to strength.
I appreciate that there is a minority who have grudges against personnel at OTM, and also those that have a financial interest in OTM (online agents and duopoly shareholders) who would like to see it fail, but it would be a great, great shame if those that have done letters of intent, and don’t join, eventually lead to the self owned portal not being successful. I really don’t think that another opportunity would arise, leaving RM to take total control over our entire industry.
I agree somewhat in what you say. I think unless a revoutionary idea comes about this really is the last chance for a portal to break RM’s dominance.
In regards to letters of intent i am not sure its a case agents are signing them waiting for others to join. I think its more a case of a nice rep from OTM taking time to sit and talk with an agency owner and then politely asking for a letter of intent that is not binding as would help them out.
My reason for not joining is not based solely on waiting for other agents.
I have tried over the last year to be as balanced as i can when it comes to OTM but as time goes on i am finding it harder. I would have thought over time i would be closer to joining but i actually find myself stepping further away sadly. I think today’s figures despite the spin that has been put on it shows most agents feel the same.
Even though you may have not signed a letter of intent, you have always been positive about the idea of a self owned portal that addresses the interests of pro agents and have said yourself that you would be interested in joining if the time was right for you.
If you add the signed letters of intent to the amount of agents who have thoughts similar to your own then it would make a truly significant change to the property portal landscape.
I’m really encouraged that there is still a great amount of positive support for the idea as I believe that as long as this exists it will be possible (over the next 4 years or so) to address some of the concerns that prevent agents from joining and make the portal a real success.
No one would sign a letter of intent if they had no intention of ever joining the site at all.
Fair comment, I think i would still join dependent on a number of things and a truly owned agent portal is no doubt a massive positive.
I also think if someone has signed they may well in the future join but not necessarily when they just hit the 7500 mark.
I think “Comment of the week” by AC points out covers where most are on this now. Its that reason i think OTM has hit a wall.
Reading between the lines they have circa 500 letter of intent that may or may not join when the get another 1500 and this has taken a year.
They need to look at how to recruit more and it needs to be big numbers and needs to be quick to keep the momentum up before everybody does get apathetic towards it.
Smile “I think i would still join dependent on a number of things”……and I think that’s where, if OTM address “a number of things”, they could get the stock off Zoopla, become the 2nd agent and then start to work towards RM.
It would be a non starter if no-one had signed letters of intent or expressed an an interest in the idea, but that clearly isn’t the case, which is very encouraging.
Yes i guess but 600 unbinding letter of intent in almost a year since launch shows the mamouth task they have in attracting new members.
The passionate belives have signed up, they now need to to convert the skeptics and the current offering has proved its not working.
I honestly think they need to look at their price point, make it almost impossible for agents to say no.
Would you rather have 5500 agents paying 16.5 million pounds annually with the stock they bring or 15,000 agents paying 16.5 million with the stock they bring?
This is where i am not too sure OTM really is a mutual. They have shown it can be run on circa 16 million it can only get better if there is more stock and agents so why not do this?
I’m certain that this is one of many options that have/are being considered. The fact that that numbers of members + letters of intent + interested agents remains enough to make it work means that there is every reason to think that OTM can and will adapt to succeed.
Would you rather have 5500 agents paying 16.5 million pounds annually with the stock they bring or 15,000 agents paying 16.5 million with the stock they bring?
That right there is the model they need, and they need it right now. Best reply in an OTM thread I have read
I’ve already asked Agents Mutual if reducing fees would help push agent recruitment and if this is something they would consider. I was advised that they have no plans or need, whatsoever to reduce fees.
It’s a non starter.
What is your opinion on that Paul? as a member what are your thoughts on what OTM should do to increase membership?
Keep banging the same drum or change their tune?
How about this as an aggressive marketing campaign aimed at recruiting new members.
Sign up to OTM before the 1 year anniversary for a 4 year contract get the first 6 months for free and then the remaining 3.5 years at an equal rate across all membership to bring in £16 million per annum.
And this is done by way of a BINDING letter of intent hitting 15,000 offices.
I agree (well i would wouldn’t i!)
Problem is where does that leave the Gold / silver members that have signed a membership tiring them into a 5 year contract at £x per month?
I think if push came to shove Gold /Silver members would jump at the chance to have 15,000 on board and raise the same revenue (as per Gump). If that was what was needed as it is preferred to staying with numbers that don’t move it on. I guess at the moment, 1 year in they may not feel they have to do this….especially if they have had talks with Countrywide coming on board. Remember….it is the intention to drastically lower the fees when more agents are using the site…..it’s not for profit.
“What is your opinion on that Paul?”…Hi Smile, One way or another there has to be more agents on the site and of course id rather any new agents not pay less than me but by the same token I understand that the key is getting more agents and in turn more stock on to the site. But based on the response received from Agents Mutual I don’t think a drop in fees is required or desirable.
I do not blame you, i would not want to pay more (especially as an early supporter) than a “new” member.
I guess you have faith the letters of intent are infact credible and working then?
As a member is there anything you would change at this stage or are you happy with the current offerings?
I would imagine that knowing their investment is now a solid mover rather than a load of hot air, that they would welcome the idea!
But it won’t happen, the big boys want their own toy and they will do all they can to protect it.
Gump….I’m not sure that the “big boys” want to protect their toy? It’s a bit of a silly thing to say. To the larger agents the financial commitment may be easier to find than for others. If that is the case they surely would rather see 15000 agents on board and every branch paying £150 per month in the future? Remember, the more people on board the less everyone pays….that is in their interests as much as anyone else.
@Wilko
I don’t think it is a silly thing to say Wilko, smile has given out the perfect solution to their membership woes.
Members have said that a fee reduction will not happen, with various open letters and threads on here people have questioned their actions and non members do not trust them.
4 years time, they have their toy, courtesy of 5500 misguided agents.
No new members since June/July this year? It’s over
Letters of intent? Really? Conditional upon what Ian?
I think it’s safe to say that AM’s principles are well founded – create a website that every agent is on, part of a mutual, competing in stealth with RM/Z, but perhaps when the rest of the playing field is level. It’s all the wrong way around. For say £50/branch/month and no restrictions on other advertising I reckon every agent in the country would WANT to join and then it would have all the stock. 16.5k branches paying £50/month = £825k. Just under £10m/year. By about 2020 perhaps members of the public would have heard of it too. They might even use it because in 5 odd years it could have got more appealing and it would have a load of money. But by design at present it will end up with just the top end stuff that Savills and Knight Frank sell and everyone else will be left stranded. It currently serves no purpose for an agent who is trying to get through these ****** difficult times. RM is now stronger than ever, so that went well, and has led to a demand for 30% increase on my current fees – which I will not pay. As for Z well this whole story started with them simply looking to be creative. A watch is something and nothing really of course but to have to incentivise agents to use something which is brilliant intel and a tool hub seems ludicrous. Akin to having to incentivise the remaining 78% of agents to sign up to OTM!! What IS our industry doing? Letters of intent? It’s the stuff of juvenile delinquents and Ian’s ramblings are actually those of a madman.
If you are in the business of selling/letting property you have to go where the eyeballs are and consumers have 2 practical choices today. I pay my negotiated fees** into that pairing and let it do its thing. I don’t want to worry and stress about not getting eyeballs and calls out of principle. In spite of his passion which is admirable, Ian’s execution of OTM is a wasted opportunity, even if the ostensible gain was to create PrimeLocation part 2. Too little, too late. Face it. Hard cheese.
** Negotiated fees – so not rate card. That’s our job isn’t it? Don’t pay more than you’re prepared to pay and don’t be told what to do. It’s a game. But RM/Z are good at it and they don’t sell houses. We do. Perhaps we should remember this and not attempt to build websites until we’re ready. We don’t look like we’re very good at it.
Don’t I recall you once saying you’re not an Agent, your wife is? This post is worded as if you’re the agent in the family.
I don’t suppose you’re a more frequent poster on OTM stories who has some fairly firm opinions about AM being a rather exclusive boys club.
Busted. I work at the family firm and get wound up by much of the diatribe on here, occasionally I have to vent!
Anyone passionate about what they do has to vent. I post on here most days not to vent (even if that is how it comes across) but to defend the good people in the industry from people who treat the industry and those who work in it with little or no respect.
I have no time for those who sycophantically hang off the shirt tails of the high profile figures and will actively encourage them into debate.
There is a lot of good about Agents Mutual but the relationship and protection of OTM as a product concerns me.
The problem with these figures is in the ‘Letter of Intent’. I feel that they way it was worded and set out is for the sake of making headlines like this, saying ‘X number of offices are signed up’. The form basically says ‘We’ll give you a great deal in future if you say you will consider joining us later’. The form is very non-committal, and because of this Agents probably feel they can easily sign this without issue because they can’t lose out. If OTM takes off, they aren’t committed to contract and they can still get a good deal. If it doesn’t, they don’t have to sign up when the number of offices specified in the LoI are reached. What it says to me is that they’re great at going round to see people and trying to build positive relationships, but the proof of the pudding will be in the eating at the end of the day.
Andy, you say “What it says to me is that they’re great at going round to see people and trying to build positive relationships”
What it also says to me is that, in general terms, many agencies have expressed a positive interest in the portal…….it’s just a big shame more haven’t taken the plunge yet.
I would say many agencies have indeed expressed a positive interest, but insofar as much they are considering, if OTM does take off and become effective, when the right time to make the jump will be. I think it’s less about abandoning the duopoly etc and more about business survival and so on.
Seems the haters all have a lot of time on their hands this morning….
So we are now counting non binding letters of intent signed as “members” dear…. Oh…dear
“Well over 6,000 offices” So how many is it then?
Classic responses from dave_d and new life. If you don’t like the reporting on here why not go and read something else? Reading PIE is not compulsory you know.
I agree. I’m out, had enough of this OTM rubbish.
The concept of having an agent owned portal is fine, however OTM need another 1500 offices which at this point will be independents, the question is can anyone in the current market afford to lose business whilst Mr Springett throws more money at his sinking ship, the feed back from agents is that they are just not getting the right level of inquiries or deals, who in there right mind would buy into that, and as many have said, it cant be in there clients interest to disadvantage them.
Why would they lose business? It wouldn’t make one jot of difference, that sort thinking is what holds people back.
RM and Zoopla have the industry hypnotized into thinking they can’t operate without them, it’s complete nonsense.
A vendor doesn’t grill you on which portal you are on, they want to know that you are professional, trustworthy, have the expertise and knowledge to get the job done.
They want to work with someone they like and can relate to, they want to fill you care and you will work hard for them.
And at the end of the day they want their house sold and sold for the best price. How you do that is up to that and that is what you will be judged on!
On-liners will have you believe that they are the only ones open 24/7, they even have some agents believe they are not on line!
Agents have been online for years, first websites, first tablets, first apps and take emails and phone calls 24/7 on their phones (if they want to).
But they will continue to take market share from agents because some agents can’t change.
The irony is that they will continue to operate on RM and attack you on a medium that only exists because of the very agents they attack. They say you do the same thing, by just using RM to sell property, they say you are no different to them and are cheaper.
Those very agents can turn out the lights on RM, Zoopla and on-liners in one go, but unfortunately for some, their inability to break free from the greatest fallacy that is RM will result in their lights going out first.
How long did it take RM and Zoopla to succeed and how do they do it, buy having agents feed them 24/7.
OTM isn’t even a year old and is within reach if people could just have a bit of self belief and make the jump.
Wizard……you say
” the feed back from agents is that they are just not getting the right level of inquiries or deals”
How many, and which agents are you referring to in your statement of “fact”
‘And at the end of the day they want their house sold and sold for the best price’. ….. And to sell at the best price it needs the largest possible exposure to the market and with an OTM agent, with no access to either RM or Z that is not the case.
It’s all propaganda chaps. All we have to do is look at numbers of listings on their sites to see the reality. I just searched OTM in London (where the main OTM support comes from) and they only have 1,008 properties, whereas Zoopla comes in at 10,020. Sad but true.
Just checked my local patch and OTM are up 20% on Zoopla in terms of listing numbers. Bearing in mind the local Countrywide offices continue to advertise sold stock on Zoopla & RM the picture is even more favourable for OTM.
Is this an impartial trade news site or a subsidiary of the Ian Springett fan club????
Me thinks the latter.
So if there is a press release made relating to the industry that this site reports on, it shouldn’t be released? Should they wait until the next morning in the hope someone else doesn’t run the story?
They are in the business of attracting people to their site so they can grow advertising revenues, which seems to have been successful as you have popped up here!
They want to be the go to place for the property industry, so not reporting on stuff isn’t going to get the job done is it?
Are you asking Eye to become a subsidiary of Zoopla then and supress news that doesn’t show them in a negative light?
What’s your motive with your comment? What do you stand to lose or gain from it?
Comments are always best viewed when you understand the writers motivation, what’s yours?
What !!! They attract people to their site using articles about our industry and then make money… I’m outraged . I say we immediately get together and make another site to show our own news , if we all chip in say £300 per month that gives us enough to pay me around £500,000 a year. We will the then tell our members to contribute their own stories and ban them from reading either PiE or EAT . I will require you all to sign a very long term contract so if it all goes **** up I still get your money ….
That’s a mental idea Danny, you couldn’t get enough agents to agree to it!
“Having made a successful and disruptive entry to the market”. So OTM are a disruptor? What are they disrupting?
They’ve got more marketing money – so shouldn’t this mean better results than precicted?
“The market does not need three major portals.” Erm – so why did they start one?
I still don’t get it but happy to let results speak for themselves. When will we see real numbers prepared by an independent analyst?
Odd questions? Not sure you understand the concept or maybe you are just looking to be negative for negatives sake?
The only thing OTM need to do is win more agents, the rest will take care of itself. It’s happening but it needs a further push.
The tipping point is crucial.
As an agent drops Zoopla their stock goes down and OTM goes up, thus the gap is closed and eventually passed. It’s a double whammy. People focus on the amount of stock and the difference on both portals, but you only need half of that stock to disappear for them to run level.
Agents make the difference, agents hold the power.
Are you a board member?
“The only thing OTM need to do is win more agents, the rest will take care of itself”. Really? If only life was that simple. Did you say that about iSold? The only thing we need to do is have a large brand like Tescos onboard and then the customers will come? Did they? Agents don’t hold the power, sorry. The customer does!
To be fair isold failed not because lack of customers but because it was trying to trade without calling itself and estate agent when in fact it was which the backers were exposed to a point they had to pull it.
But the website is still live. They haven’t pulled isold. Are they keeping it live with the hope that it might still work?
Insanity: doing the same thing over and over again and expecting different results!
That is a question i cannot answer but taking a guess it helps with SEO for spicerhart?
No Ben I’m not, but is that simple, the hard part is getting agents to do it!
Customers will go where the property is, hence RM get so much traffic.
What do you think would happen if they had no property on their website because the agents said that’s the end of it today, no more uploads to RM?
It staggers me that this has to be spelled out to people.
This is a STOP PRESS?
Agreed. Complete nonsense.
They have had 5,500 offices since the middle of the year and their large sales team have spent months getting just over 500 agents sign a letter to say that they MAY contract if and when they get to 7,500.
This smacks of a team under incredible pressure and needing to release some sort of news.
Not good news for those agents who have invested in this thing.
GPL, give me your best shot, but I think any rational observer will see this as bad news for agents mutual
You’ve got to keep this up for another 4 and a bit years EH. OTM have secured their funding for that time.
Have you secured yours from your paymasters?
Paul – everyone has their vested interests. Yours are also clear.
The fact is though that this is bad news for OTM and Springett is making climbdown after climbdown at the moment. I imagine that this release is only really to gloss over the fact they’ve had to bring down their member login area today.
They were on 5,500 members months ago and that has stagnated and now he reports they have only managed to get a few hundred agents to sign a letter stating they ‘might’ sign up (and that is subject to them making 7,500). This is despite the fact they have a large and well paid sales team out there banging down doors.
Paul Smith said they would be number two by October 15, Springett said number 2 by Jan 16. He also said they would be at 7,500 members by January and reading above it now seems that is their ultimate goal.
Not good enough. The real question now is whether it will be a slow deflation over the next year or two or if the thing pops in 2016.
Where is GPL this morning? Shurely he is delighted with this news as it proves the Duopoly is shattered and Hoopla is sunk?!?!
Paul – everyone has their vested interests. Yours are also clear.
Yes they are, but not everyone else’s is! 😉