An estate agency supplier marking its 40th anniversary in business says that almost nothing has changed in four decades when it comes to the UK residential property market.
Wright Plastics, which supplies signage and display products, said that despite all the promises to revolutionise the industry, none had had any real impact – and estate agency remains a strictly local concern.
Mike Wright, managing director of the midlands-based company, said: “We’ve been working with estate agents for 40 years and it is surprising how little has actually changed.
“Despite the growth of the internet and telesales techniques, selling and buying a property remains a local matter: the vast majority of buyers and sellers still prefer a locally-based agent.
“They still look for a high street branch with an enticing window display and a team with local knowledge.”
However, he said that the internet had impacted on the estate agency market more than any other sector, with traffic to Rightmove equating to more than one million page views an hour.
There had also been a number of internet ventures, such as Sarah Beeny’s Tepilo and Russell Quirk’s eMoov.
There had also been ‘promises’ to revolutionise the sector from US-based realtors and UK supermarkets.
However, said Wright, none had had any real impact on the way property is transacted in the UK.
Wright added: “Technological changes and the growth of larger estate agency chains have also left consumer behaviour largely unaffected.
“Looking back over four decades, it is perhaps surprising how little has changed in estate agency. The prices are much, much higher, of course, but the need to interact personally with a locally-based agency remains undimmed after all these years.”
Comments (89)
"Your hypocrisy is staggering."
And that hypocrisy would be WHAT, exactly?
"I'm truly bullet proof."
You're truly deluded to make such a ridiculous statement. Your years on this planet have taught you nothing.
Oh – last thing to chew on – you bore me now… since your overinflated (for all the wrong reasons…) ego hasn't allowed you to take on board, I only think it's fair to spell out the fact that this discussion has gone round you and so far distant that your clearly demonstrated severely limited understanding of both the industry and of social interaction will never allow you to catch up.
Bon appetit.
p a w n is a chess piece not a rude word, good grief Ros you have a filter that can't spell! I only mention that because I don't use rude words
"I only mention that because I don't use rude words"
Oh, well – there we have it. Proof in the absolute.
We DEFINITELY aren't the same person! 😉
So, ampersat – I'm now going to dig, gnaw and otherwise subject you to a PeeBee 'probing', as you suggest somewhere above this comment.
Bend over and relax! 😉
Stick and stones Ladies. Tweet away if you wish.
Your hypocrisy is staggering.
You are obviously deluded and living in la la land if you think that whatever you say has the slightest effect on me or my business. But don't let that stop you from trying and waste your time. I'm truly bullet proof.
It's given me and my colleagues an enormous amount of pleasure reading your puerile rants.
I'm so glad that I've given you girls something to hold hands and bond together over. You seem to need it 'badly'.
If there's a charity that helps those with conditions like yours then let me know as I would happily donate my entire life savings.
I repeat. You are transparent……..Next!
Well done, Mr Clemo – you have managed to raise the collective ire of a very wide cross-section of the industry.
We spend most of our time arguing the toss amongst ourselves. We have now found common ground.
Thank you.
Chuckle-Looks like someone couldn't sleep!!!
Morning Peebee, I think it is a little unfair to give Mr Clemo any credit for anything, he is simply a hapless pawn who has been used to demonstrate the sort of character who is setting themselves up in business using the anonymity of the internet to feign respectability.
I have a contact on the OFT, I am driving all the way to London tomorrow for a meeting, a bit of a trek but a worthwhile one. There are qualifications to be an Estate Agent and the director of a firm, that of being a fit person. Fit requiring reasonable levels of honesty, respect and integrity.
Now in his latest rant he is claiming there is nothing much we can do to harm his business, really Mr Clemo? Take young Paul H, he has about 2300 mates who I would guess won't like you or your attitude. Somewhat of a force to be reckoned with I would say. What happens if they alone turn around to Mr Chesterman and Mr Shipside and ask if Red Homes with an immature and petulant half MD is the sort of company they want appearing on their respective portals.
An online passive intermediary firm deprived of online but with contractual obligation to be online soon has a bit of a worry, with the money collected and no doubt spent it is the directors and directors alone who are liable for the breach of contract. Yes limited liability offers some protection but a bankruptcy order is enough that such directors branded as unfit to trade.
It is a pity Mr Clemo didn't have the wisdom to recognise this good news story of a chap who has given 40 years service to the industry wasn't the smartest place to pick a fight or to pimp himself or his company.
I think even if Paul's mates don't call up their direct line to Miles and Alex even just the 4 of us do it will be enough to have them at least reviewing the account.
It is probably best if Mr Clemo apologises to Mike Wright right for spoiling his party, then starts to realise the bullet proof very rarely includes a direct head shot. Trust me Mr Clemo, I know where to aim, when to aim, a very long memory and an even longer list of contacts all of whom think me a thoroughly decent and honest bloke.
Indeed Ampersat, 2300 (and rising) mates that if not already aware of redhomes, certainly are now. They only have to look at this article and the subsequent comments to see for the themselves how the MD of this company wants to conduct business!
It's really not good PR, although he might need to employ a PR company quite soon at this rate and that could cost thousands!
Hopefully Paul you can see I am on your side. It is the internet that allows these passive intermediaries to exist and although they appear to be Estate Agencies they are a conutry mile fom being anything more a than amateur looky likies.
With one of my motivators now hiding in plain view I, and it is not a criticism of agency, can demonstrate that in order to fight off the effects of online agency many agencies are getting in fee and commission battle with the likes of Mr Clemo when there really is no need to. By reducing commission levels below those that generate normal profits Agency is giving away it's profit. The land registry figures show that although transaction levels are up on what they were and prices have returned in most cases to pre crash levels. The increased levels of competition which you made reference to on another thread are having a substantial effect on the profitability of Agency.
It is with that in mind that I have said that Agents Mutual is fighting the wrong battle. The net £1200 saving per annum in the first year isn't really the issue. The might and power of Agents Mutual is not in controlling portal cost but in dealing with firms like Red Homes.
I fully accept there are proper agencies that now exist without premises but they tend to concentrate on a set area giving good levels of service and are a credit to the industry- their fixed costs are fairly much the same as a traditional agency as their extra spend on public awareness easily matches up with the cost of an office. Those agencies are not the commission sapping issue it is the list all, charge all, sell nothing** brigade that need controlling. Agents Mutual don't need to wait til next January to exert some pressure on the big two portals. I would suggest a little pressure in the right place and Mr Clemo's invincibility will be tested.
** allowing DIY buyers to purchase property isn’t selling and it certainly isn’t EstateAgency.
I wonder if that is enough to satisfy Hound’s curiosity- (for now)
I agree whole heartedly re these fly by night online agencies who trade by piggy backing on other businesses, check out the below Ampersat and you will see that I have signed up mainly for this reason and not specifically to save a few quid in the short term;
http://www.propertyindustryeye.com/we-will-ban-cut-price-online-agents-springett-vows/
Thank you for the link Paul that story pre dates my discovery of PIE. I fully support that move as it is the fee erosion the passive intermediary agencies cause which is the big destroyer of profit and subsequently jobs.
Only for now though, Ampersat, I'll look forward to hearing more 🙂
Everyone should re-tweet this thread, pure comedy gold. This needs spreading far, far beyond the boundaries of Ros's archive.
Petulant rant of the century or what?
Steve Clemo you missed the last one off the list; 3 solid months of reading egotistical mis-truths by passive intermediaries trying desperately to imitate those capable of ticking the first 26 boxes has made me this way.
3- nil?
The post wasn't meant for the likes of you Hound as I thought you made some well thought out and considered comments and I thought you would have realised that especially as I complimented you on one. Pity, you've let yourself down.
However the quality of debate was lowered by the initial responses and highly personal comments to my first post, (which regardless of what some may think because it suits there own limited viewpoint), was not meant to be malicious in anyway shape or form. I was expressing my opinion on certain issues with some agents within the industry.
I have been forced to express myself in a certain style in respnse to the way several members on this 'forum' choose to debate themselves.
By the way Paul H. & your acolytes peewee et al. I certainly won't lose any sleep appearing to be 'silly' to the likes of you two who were one of the first with the personal vitriol. Your lack of of reasoned debate and vocabulary says more about you than I could ever say.
Having more than just agency experience in my life has given me a sense of humour which sadly appears to be lacking in some seriously stressed out 'agents' on this forum.
But none of you will still man-up and let us know who you really are. Still waiting to grow some are we? Pathetic.
No wonder agents are considered to be on the same level as politicians.
I'm off to the South of France for a few weeks now. Carry on working boys!
Many online agents or those that back the online model post on this site regularly and are respected for their views. If you check the archives of this new and already very good website you will see many "reasoned" debates. Your initial post however, was not posted to incite a "reasoned" debate as you very well know.
As I said above I do not believe that you work for red homes, more a troll on a wind up although if you are the joint MD of redhomes then judging by your 'alphabet' post above, I pity anyone that would want to do business with you.
"The post wasn't meant for the likes of you Hound as I thought you made some well thought out and considered comments and I thought you would have realised that especially as I complimented you on one. Pity, you've let yourself down."
You just don't get it – do you?
I'll not waste effort drawing you a picture – just you languish in blissful ignorance.
"By the way Paul H. & your acolytes peewee et al…"
Oh – you crack me up. peewee? Well, that's a first, I can assure you.
NOT. Sorry, Mr Clemo – WAY bigger and better than you have dropped that one into their posts before. And worse – MUCH worse.
You're a rank amateur in that respect. In most respects, actually – which is a statement I base upon firstly your initial post, and your subsequent inability to recover from that initial BIG faux-pas.
I suggest you enjoy France. Take the opportunity when you're not struggling with French spellings in the same way you do English, to chew over what you have failed miserably here to do – and maybe try again when the wounds heal.
If you want to play with the other boys and girls in the playground, you've got to learn to roll with them and accept the occasional bl00dy nose because boys and girls can be rough and tough when someone tries to take over the game when they don't even know the rules.
Or, of course, you can just watch through the window. Your choice.
Au revoir. Le singe est dans l'arbre. 😉
Haven't got a 'like' button on here, but LIKE!
The post may not have been directed at me, but it was directed at people who frequently post here, and who's opinions I respect.
Respect is clearly a word you do not know the meaning of!
Who's let themselves down?
And you sir, from your post above are clearly an As..hole! and not capable of the rational debate you claim to want!
And just for your interest, business is good, I'm bald, my kids love me, and my wife has not left me for another woman, unless she's gone since breakfast time!
Oh, dear.
I do not believe that you work for Redhomes, if so then you are doing a great job at making your company look rather silly.
Hound said….."Perhaps the thought that home ownership should be affordable and available to all, and that us agents should offer a quality service at a fair cost is not a bad one, although Paul would probably see that as a ‘socialist’ thought."
This was in response to me stating "another socialist" due to the following comment….
"What extra does Mrs A. get by paying 2% than her neighbor Mrs B. who is paying 1%?……..Absolutely nothing!!! Mrs A. is eventually worse off by thousands of pounds. If anyone can give a valid reason why this is fair then I would love to know."………..Of course we should offer a quality service at a fair price but who is to say what that "fair price" is? It does not mean that we should cap the amount that a company can offer a service for so that everyone pays 1% as per Mrs B above, instead we should allow the free market to dictate the price unlike it being capped like rents and gas etc.
I am 37 by the way, are you pulling age rank on me Hound? 🙂
Given that we all use the internet as our main source of advertising, whether high street based, or remotely based, and that the enquiries generated from that advertising are the principal source of new applicants, there is no evidence base to show that using a 'cheaper' agent costs sellers money in the eventual price achieved, or do you agree with the corporate marketing ploy that 'we can get you a better price because we can give you better exposure than the little independent' then Paul? Same principal! So I'm not convinced that it does cost Mrs A thousands of pounds as you maintain.
As you've probably picked up from previous posts here, I've never considered no sale-no fee to be fair on the consumer, and have long advocated that we as an industry should charge for what we do, and then a commission element on completion of a successful sale, which is of course was the 'traditional model' before no sale-no fee became the norm a little over 30 years ago. You may be interested to know that I started offering an up front marketing fee and a reduced commission on completion a couple of months ago, and despite the lack of property coming on to the market, and that there have been no fewer than 7 new agents open up in the area, all offering an 'opening promotion' the take up has been very good, and we have maintained our instruction levels, so from that evidence, I'm inclined to think that if there was currently a better flow of new property coming on, we may well have increased them.
And yes, I can pull age on you, but only by 19 years 🙂
Morning Ampersat, thanks for your response, still intrigued and would like to hear more of your ideas.
You said ‘I am honest and motivated by the good of the profession rather than the profits from it,’ so we’re definitely banging the same drum there!
Inspired by your comment that I’ve just quoted above made me think that Paul H’s use of the word ‘socialist’ as an insult earlier in this thread is well wide of the mark, it is quite possible to hold socialist views and be a good and effective agent.
Perhaps the thought that home ownership should be affordable and available to all, and that us agents should offer a quality service at a fair cost is not a bad one, although Paul would probably see that as a ‘socialist’ thought! I suspect Paul may well be somewhat younger than us and does not remember the days when we saw a steady flow of young first time buyers eagerly looking for their first home, and the excitement of helping them find it!
I have to find a way of sharing my thoughts in a way that has a tad more impact than just letting the cat out of the bag in a post of a thread that is already in the archive with an audience of just 5 people including me.
Get Ros to write a feature perhaps?
I reckon our Peebee Paxman would be the man for the job. simply because I would wear the scars as a trophy if I could then see him grill Shipside, Chesterman, Springett, Day and Clemo with the same level of scrutiny.
Ros might be able to sell tickets.
Peebee said "Yup – exactly the same as YOUR opinion, Paul H – based on a guess."…I'll take that as a concession that we are both looking in to a crystal ball then;-)
"Only MINE is based on something which is there to see today."…Here today gone tomorrow Peebee. Now I do not know how many leads you get from Zoopla or rightmove, but I can tell you that I could sell all my properties by being just on one portal right now, can you hand on heart tell me that if you were not on Zoopla RIGHT NOW that you would not be able to sell someone's property?
"."…I'll take that as a concession that we are both looking in to a crystal ball then;-)"
Yup – just a different crystal ball, mon ami.
"…can you hand on heart tell me that if you were not on Zoopla RIGHT NOW that you would not be able to sell someone's property?"
Yes. But only 100%… categorically… absolutely… definitely affirmative.
Did I ever post anything to the contrary?
So you are saying that if you dropped Zoopla and were only on Rightmove that you would 100% not be able to sell someone's property?
Me right now (and im sure this would be the case for most other agents in London) I could drop Zoopla and still get the same level of enquiries and bids on a property.
In anycase how would you know unless you dropped Zoopla and found out, how do you know that those enquiries that come from Zoopla are also people that look in rightmove??
OOPS – misread your question. Sorry.
Take the answer as if responding to you asking "…can you hand on heart tell me that if you were not on Zoopla RIGHT NOW that you WOULD be able to sell someone's property?"
I think that will make my answer far more understandable.
Too many "not's" in the question, Paul H – it confused my poor Geordie brain.
My apologies for causing any raise in your blood temperature.
No need to apologize Peebee as you say too many "not's" we will have to park this conversation for now as i'm far too keen to hear Ampersat's business plan;-)
No what you were wanting before your post had the contact details and URL removed was to promote your own site and service copying the amateur self promotion of the likes of Adam Day.
No one actually believes you made your post just before boarding an aeroplane or ferry, most will suspect you waited till the heat died down with the story slipping into the archive before dishing out another helping of your own unique version of mature debate. What intrigues me is why you co MD didn’t step up to the plate to smooth the embarrassment and harm to the firm that is now permanently etched onto the internet.
You can claim what you like about your motivation and intention with your first post but essentially you just wanted a dig at established and professional agency so spreading the gospel that inflated passive intermediaries are somehow on an equal footing with Estate Agency. I can see how a gullible audience would swallow your claims must most here recognise that there is a world of difference between the two ends of the selling spectrum. Some people like Hamburgers made of connected tissue and a smidgeon of meat, some prefer steak, there is room for your sort of agency but don't try to stick it in a 'Finest' wrapper.
You shouldn't be too surprised at the reaction you got, it isn't personal just a little bit of negative SEO. The problem with SEO is it isn't all positive and your competition have as much right to redress the balance as you have to make false claims.
It is probably a bit churlish of you not to appreciate for any further business to business correspondence you ought to use faithfully instead of sincerely. I really doubt whichever spelling or grammar checker you are blaming for that faux pas has that as a fundamental difference between the British and American version. You can go into regional settings and change it then that won't happen again.
Anyway far from needing a pill, I simply used your post to put an immediate halt to people like you and Adam Day using Property Industry Eye to post URLs and contact details for their own parasitic gain.
Ampersat, you said:
'as one of the few people able to help with changes that are apparent right now and help put things right.'
And then said:
'I am comfortable letting this audience now what I want to achieve and why they should have faith in my ability to deliver.'
TELL US THEN!
Intrigued of East Anglia.
First of ring up Mark Hayward* and ask if you can be an FNAEA again but only on condition the NAEA is returned to being a trade body rather than over staffed warehouse for goods and services no-one wants and demand it gives their Senior now ex-membership the respect it deserves.
Professional Agency can not hope to stand out against the passive intermediary industry without a respected trade body that is committed to its membership. Not once since Hugh Dunsmore-Hardy initiated the discord has NAEA shown any signs of recovery.
Today is a good day to ring Arbon House and see if they have understood the harm NFOPP has done.
*Suggest you go straight to Mark rather than the membership department who will only quote chapter and verse those things that decimated the membership over a number of years. It is his job to recognise he has the power to correct other people’s mistakes.
Morning Ladies.
Apologies for the delay in replying but I've been abroad on business since my last post.
Hit a nerve have I? Dear oh dear the vitriol says it all doesn't it! 'Socialist', 'Billshutter' etc. Seems like I gave Paul H. and PeeBee a sleepless night but Ampersat appears to be having nightmares!
Quote Ampersat comments directed at me:
"venomous rant"
"nasty reckonings"
"vexatious parasite"
Using his own phrase that it says everything about the person making the comments, says it all about him really doesn't it.
Take a pill ampersat.
My post was not a 'venomous rant'. I was hoping to stimulate a mature debate and entice some intelligent comments as 'Hound' posted but it appears that it has given some unhappy and bitter people the excuse to vent their spleen with their childish playground drivel. It was naive of me to think otherwise I suppose.
Ampersat & friends.
If the best you can do is criticize someone's spelling and call people names then you have already lost the argument. You may be interested to know that 'neighbour' was underlined as an incorrect spelling, hence the change. One is American the other English. Try and take an educated guess which one if it doesn't hurt your brain too much.
And stop hiding behind your silly tags and tell us who you are if you're brave enough or haven't you grown a pair yet?
"You may be interested to know that 'neighbour' was underlined as an incorrect spelling…"
Yes, it does. It underlines EVERY word which doesn't match the dictionary listing. It also underlines 'Clemo' – but strangely enough, you let THAT pass without amendment.
"…hence the change."
So – basically you let a spell-checker control what you type. Speaks volumes, Sir.
"One is American the other English." Congratulations – you are undisputed winner of today's No S**t, Sherlock Award. Possibly the month. But here's the thing, Sir. We, your 'audience' – those that you seek "mature debate" with – are predominantly BRITISH. We speak, and therefore spell, in the ENGLISH manner. We LIKE the British 'neighbour'.
Your post was simply intended to inflame – don't try to kid anyone to the contrary. Every word screams it. You wished to provoke a reaction – you got it.
You just didn't like it and also, from your reaction, it is apparent you aren't capable of responding to it.
Aww, diddums.
(sorry – don't know the American equivalent. You'll have to look it up yourself in your US-English translator. We all know where you have that firmly lodged…)
Hi PeeBee, don't mind you joining in at all, it always adds a bit of interest 🙂
I stick by what I said, that we can't control how Joe Public uses technology, or indeed what technology is created for them, but you are absolutely correct that it is all about how WE use it, and there never will be anything to replace that essential 'human' element.
Looking forward to hearing from Ampersat as to how he is going to save us all 😉
Hound
From what I've read recently (well… four years' worth, actually…), the only 'saving' that most agents are keen to achieve is a few coppers off their portal fees.
There is nothing wrong with trying to be thrift with your money and save a few quid, unless you want to let Rightzoop take all your profits, I was paying £250 per month only 5 years ago 😉
Sorry, Paul H – I disagree BIG time.
There is EVERYTHING "wrong" with being thrift (sic) with your money IF it adversely affects your clients, which, potentially, it could. And to expand on the "potential" of the scenario further:
Potentially save a few quid vs. potentially lose a stream of buyers from a tried and trusted source = potentially extremely poor business decision.
How will it adversely affect my clients. How do you know that come January 2015 there are not more agents listed on AM than Zoopla and I get more enquiries for my clients. It is at this stage just a guess on your part Peebee.
If the market is as buoyant as it is now for the next year, than I do not need both Zoopla and rightmove to generate leads to sell properties, I currently only advertise on both to help me win instructions.
"It is at this stage just a guess on your part Peebee."
Yup – exactly the same as YOUR opinion, Paul H – based on a guess.
Only MINE is based on something which is there to see today.
Courts call it "evidence" – and judges make decisions based upon the evidence put in front of them – nothing more.
We can't control it but we can understand it and adapt. I am confident enough to say that Agency centred technology designed by and large at the end of last century has run its course. I would guess virtually all agents have abandoned use of the matching and mailing functions that Richard, Mike, Les, Geoff, Ian, Ian, Wilf, Robert, Peter, Oliver and all the rest spent hours developing and now rely on applicants to do the finding for themselves, a bit like PYO strawberries. Technology needs to be applicant centred and that might mean using the talk functions on the mobile compooter, camera, video, sat nav, games console, systems that folk insist on lugging about.
As for saving you all I am afraid I can't and won't be doing that.
Hound
Hope you don't mind but I'd like to pick up on some of your comment above to ampersat –
You say "we can't dictate how the public use technology, and the advance of that technology is beyond our control… and the scenario I described above is happening, and why agency is changing."
Okay – technology is advancing. No problem with that – as long as "advancing technology" actually allows us, the Agent, to best match buyer or tenant with their next home – and so far I've seen none of that. Have you?
WHY should the above mean that Agency needs to change? Technology (unless someone wants to correct me here…) cannot replicate human experience, knowledge or intuition. It is 0s and 1s – nothing more; nothing less. Boxes ticked; information as input. Logic at its' purest distillation.
EVERY successful agency will be so because of the people; NOT the software.
The people we deal with on a daily basis have "buttons that need to be pressed" just as much as any PC; laptop or smartphone device. The difference being that the devices, when you press the appropriate button, will 'do' what they are 'told' to do. As you know so well, "people buttons" don't necessarily 'do' anything when pressed. But if we keep pressing them…
ampersat clearly knows software (its' strengths and its' limitations) inside out – yet he extols the value of the human side of the business. That speaks volumes to me.
But it also leaves me wanting to know more. Like you, I am intrigued by what he said above.
Careful Peebee, if you are starting to melt into wanting to know more why don't you ask Ros to put you in touch with me and ask away. You have a long and very consistent record of probing to the very heart of the matter I can not think of a single product or service that has failed your inquisition and gone onto be a success. In effect your critical but fair eye is Campbell's condensed product research and evaluation.
I need someone to probe and test my thoughts and theories and now we are all free of the service supplier, anti-competition trolling that went on at EAT I am comfortable letting this audience now what I want to achieve and why they should have faith in my ability to deliver. I am a bit concerned this is a very pro-AM site but that is to be expected from respected Agency professionals.
Someone told me today that if I am a co-operative of selected agencies and not an all encompassing every agent, every property, portal I would be acceptable to Ian Springett and Co, it all comes down to the definition of Portal. I wonder if any of the Goldies would care to post whether I am allowed to work on the same side as AM post January 2015 or not. It seems the definition of what will and won't be allowed is somewhat vague. I am not concerned who I compete against I just want the opportunity to compete.
Cor blimey, ampersat – this is PeeBee you're talking to here – not Jeremy flippin' Paxman!
That being said – someone once told me that I've got a great face for radio… 🙂
I reckon you would be the ideal chap/chapess/eurovision song contest winner to come up a Paxman interview.
After all you said you wanted to know more. 😮
Ampersat, you said:
'as one of the few people able to help with changes that are apparent right now and help put things right.'
And then said:
'I am comfortable letting this audience now what I want to achieve and why they should have faith in my ability to deliver.'
TELL US THEN!
Intrigued of East Anglia.
Looks like Paxman's already on the case, ampersat… 😉
Let's be avin you Ampersat, spill the beans then !
So, ampersat – you have got some ears pricked up at the thought of you divulging some of your cards.
I sincerely appreciate your views on my previous interactions with those that claim to be the new 'Hovis' – and the fact that you are apparently ready willing and able to raise your own head above the parapet seems to indicate that you have the confidence that it will stand up to inspection where others have fallen at the first or second hurdle, when our colleagues in industry have been let loose.
You've suggested that somehow you and I get down and dirty. In past occasions, I have dug, delved and thrown back statements made by people in order to hopefully uncover any hidden agenda. As you know, I believe that Hovis is already there on the shelf; that the wheel has been well and truly invented, tried and tested, and that polishing a couple of spokes doesn't necessarily make it spin better – so my usual approach follows that belief.
You HAVE got us all (well… some of us, anyhow…) wanting to know more, ampersat.
Let's see what can be done to get your head above the parapet… complete with ski-mask of course! 😉
See longer in context post below but for starter on this subject ( in précis ) passive intermediaries passing themselves off as Estate Agents when all they are merely doing is listing stock irrespective of it's value or saleability hoping the internet will facilitate a chance meeting and a lucky sale.
So it was apparently the one month birthday of purple bricks on Friday(as stated by their employees on twitter).
Will be interesting to see how their doing down on the south coast and if theyre now recruiting nationwide.
I reckon they will roll out in four regions then bail out once they realise their projections are a million miles off target.
Tuf luv…I'm seriously living your posts fella….anyway you carry on 😉
I meant lurvin not living of course!
Of course Mr Wright will be trying to convince everyone that the high street has not changed, as his business is dependant on it. The facts are that high street footfall has dropped significantly over the past few years, and continues to do so.
30 years ago, when I first came into this industry, we had a steady stream of people through the door, now most of our business is conducted remotely, and the office door only opens on rare occasions. To put that into perspective, I had a sale complete yesterday. I have seen the vendors face to face twice, the valuation came as a result of an internet enquiry, so I met them in their home when I took the property on, and only saw them again yesterday when they dropped the keys in. The buyer phoned to arrange the viewing, vendors were doing viewings themselves, so I only met the purchaser face to face when he came in yesterday to collect the keys, but still got the cheery greeting from him as though we were old friends. Both vendor and purchaser were completely happy with the service they had from us.
It is self evident that this scenario is now the norm, certainly in this part of the world, and as technology advances inxorably it seems to me that only those with their heads in the sand will maintain that the high street will last for ever! Enjoy it whilst it lasts.
Hound you have been in this business 30 years and haven't learned that an applicant should never ever meet the vendor? It costs the vendor money, far more than your fee by at least 3 fold. There is simply no point in employing an agent if the agent is delegating virtually everything to everyone else; the Applicant to find the property on the interweb and then letting the vendor do the viewings and so hand the Royal Flush to the buyer.
It is technology reliant agencies like the one you just described that are at the full mercy of the Days and Clemos. You can flame me as much as you feel fit for my “know it all attitude” but what you have to do is work out how to run profitable agency with the technology as a tool rather than have some technology trainer tell you how to change a business you have been running for 30 years. The reason technology is changing the industry is because the technology trainers don't know how to sell or manage property.
By delegating the job of agency to the portals and office technology Agents are robbing themselves of the opportunity for normal profits.
Please forgive the apparent arrogance of the post , it isn’t intended but I can’t dress it up any other way.
No offence taken Ampersat, We all have our own opinions of course.
Interesting comment about not allowing vendor and applicant to meet. Throughout my career, in various locations across East Anglia, with agents big and small, it has been the norm for vendors to carry out viewings if they are in residence. I've bought 6 properties personally in that time, and it's always been the vendor that has conducted the viewing. Maybe different wherever you are? So I can't agree with your generalisation that agents are doing their vendor a disservice by alloing them to meet applicants.
The technology reliant agencies I describe was a factual account of me and this office. The point you are missing is that it's not agents that have chosen this change, the advance of technology we've seen over the past years is completely beyond our control, and we have to react to the way the public use that technology, it can't happen the other way round.
And what If someone suggests looking at how the public uses technology and develops systems that are one step on from where they are now.
30 years means you are an old stager like me, you have seen card index systems, the dos products Wigwam/ RGS and GMW. That gave way to the windows 3 products again GMW, and CFP then came Solex, Core and the interweb, Homes on line! (remember them) and Property finder. Up to date are the Internet softwares of Jupix and Dezrez. Each have added a bit more technology and taken away another little bit of agency to the point where many agents might as well be operating from their bedrooms.
It is the recognition of the changes that is important not the changes themselves, those that can't evolve will fold but it is the early adopters who benefit at each change of Technology. I have had a growing concern at what agency is doing to itself and have realised I am one of the few people able to help with changes that are apparent right now and help put things right.
Tell me HOUND are you FNAEA or Ex-FNAEA or never bothered?
I can't figure out what you're pitching fella but you're seriously killing my buzz right now because unless the 21st century just snuck up on you it really isn't limited by how we sell and manage property. Scratching my head how delegation to portals and office tech robs us of normal profits, jeez what are normal profits? Maybe the guy carrying the GOLF SALE sign really is sage, or maybe I just need another drink?
We can't put a moratorium on tech progression in agency, even you laud the benefits of early adoption and recognise the importance of change so why diminish it? I can reminisce too, 3 channel tv with no remote but what am I missing here because no way I quit worship at the altar of my 50 inch flat screen. Technology doesn't deal in nuance buddy it's not that subtle, ceaselessly literal it just keeps coming because we're past integration, this is a gradual take over and a stack of index cards just won't cut it.
We can all hold hands, sing kumbaya and shed a tear as our traditional model erodes but like you said, we'll evolve. Listen, I'm pretty sure you're way too smart for minimum wage so If you are the chosen one then I'm all ears.
Best you have another drink.
Morning Ampersat,
You said: 'And what If someone suggests looking at how the public uses technology and develops systems that are one step on from where they are now.'
Isn't that what's happening? I've got two mobile devices sitting on my desk that have a capability far beyond something that would have required a room full of computor equipment a few years ago. As I said in my earlier response, we can't dictate how the public use technology, and the advance of that technology is beyond our control. We, as an industry are reacting to how that technology is used, which is why card indexes, and all the other wonderful things those of us of a certain age remember so fondly are no longer with us and the scenario I described above is happening, and why agency is changing.
I'd be interested to know how, as 'one of the few people able to help with changes that are apparent right now and help put things right.' you are planning to put things right, and indeed, what you consider to be 'right'
For the record, not that it is relevent to my views here, Ex!
Sorry for the delayed reply Hound I have had a busy day mainly away from the office.
First off like you I am XFNAEA and believe fairly firmly that NFOPP should be disbanded back into NAEA, ARLA and ISVA to take proper care of the individual disciplines and skill sets with an amnesty for all fellows who were PBK’d out of an association they had supported throughout their careers. People like you and I should not be outside our professional body because some corporate type thought we needed policing to the point where he was effectively insisting in my case I had to do the only CPD training within 200 miles of here, how to take photos.
Why am I one of the very few people capable of helping, I am honest and motivated by the good of the profession rather than the profits from it, to say anymore why I am qualified to help would immediately polarise opinion but those who know know I am not full of what Peebee would describe as MDT.
Have a root through the subjects I choose to post on and find those you don't agree with we might be disagreeing about technology right now but that is because you are not viewing it from my point of view. Of those that I have spoken to about my project in recent days I have yet to receive a no the worse I have received is natural and expected caution 75% have said yes.
Mr Clemo's post really spoilt my day yesterday but I really ought not to be quite so grumpy but him added to the lunacy Chrispoher Hamer condoning the Quick sale merchants I was proper fed up.
Today is a new day, the sun is out, the surf is up and I have decided to do something about their collective sorts, as of lunchtime yesterday I am no longer retired!
GO ON, ampersat!
Can I be your wingman? 😉
You can be my wingman anytime Maverick!
to which I am expecting to get the reply
"********, you can be mine"?
Sorry Peebee I am simply fed up of it all now, I know it is the other story but really if I wandered into your office and said sell my house by teatime I reckon you would have a **** good crack and would probably achieve the market price and completion in a month! If the vendor was so desperate for a completion by the end of the week at 20% less than value you would probably buy it yourself and earn yourself a clean 10% -15% for privilege of having an extra 3 or 4 weeks time on your side.
As for this Mr Clemo I genuinely would work for nothing for as long as it takes for him to leave the industry rather than have him in business on my patch, that right there is the sort of chap who has turned Agency from a profession to be proud of into a job most would not dare to admit to for fear of cliché sniping. I am actually grateful for the motivation he has provided.
**** a barrier that impounds water or underground streams. with the primary purpose of retaining water (with an 'n' on the end)
I have even heard Prince Charles use that word, he thought I was nicking his watch.
If I’m missing something feel free to blow my mind but the dude’s not even an agent, he supplies signage. I don’t know whether to fist bump him or take him to Vegas to count cards so I’m guessing Ros is getting high during working hours; either that or we are because I don’t hear anyone calling this guy out!
Wilko’s right this topic got real old real fast but that doesn’t mean we get to ignore it. It’s a perfect storm of cheap technology & superfast broadband with an emerging tech savvy generation of buyers/sellers and a government keen on bending us over. Online agents will continue to grow so trust me, down the road these changes will be significant.
Given the business you’re in Mr Wright this isn’t exactly a road less travelled but it’s cool, I’m on the high street too so I get it but the last 40 years are just that. Right now is the topic that’s putting on a show and we’re front row to potentially the biggest change in ‘consumer behaviour’ and how ‘property is transacted’ in the UK and any inference that we’ll remain unchanged for the next 40 years is hyperbole – no way we’re getting that toothpaste back in the tube.
You're not driving this afternoon are you?
Does leasing a mini help sell more properties and attract new business?
Just wondering why redhomes show it in their main image slider?
Their "Branches" page is a tad confusing as well. There's no Branch address, and if there's no address, how is there a Branch?
Or have I missed something…
This type of debate has been done to death in recent months.
Always the same conclusion;
High Street will continue to work along side growing online ventures for some years yet.
As time, technology and the public go forward – online style agency (not sure which model) will take over…..eventually.
Let's hope this sort of vexatious parasite trolling isn't allowed to do to PIE what it did to EAT.
I hope to that the post is editted to remove the unpaid avertising URL and contact details.
Thank you Admin!
I thought my post was fairly harmless ?
Not you Wilko, I was referring the diatribe posted above and thought you were referring to it too.For 3 solid months we were treated to that sort of self justification and self promotion, it spoilt EAT.
I am happy to have the debate but it really has been done to death, anything more said on the subject is just trolling and an excuse to leech a bit of lifeblood.
ill 2nd that Amperset.
Chuckle! Stevo Clemo ,it is people like you who motivate people like me.
If I had 10 spare minute this morning I would pick your embarrassing venomous rant to pieces and quite simply discredit you in the eyes of your staff, those daft/ greedy enough to be your customers and the entire PIE audience. However your post actually says more about you and your company than I could hope to.
I hope you have a good relationship with your co managing director ( the fact it takes two to do the laziest job in any company is beyond me but I guess it is an ego thing) I think you will have embarrassed them too.
All right minded estate agents should tweet and like this story and so alert the general public to the true vile nature of the unqualified much cheapness people they are trusting with their homes.
Well done Mike Wright and very well observed, I think 40 years experience easily top trumps the nasty reckonings of someone until today most had never heard of and from today forward will regard with contempt and distain.
Yours faithfully ( Look it up Steve clemo, that was just one of your ignorant mistakes)
ampersat
Ouch…and bang on. If I had more time today (but I didn't as was busy in my out of date office offering a service nobody wants …apparently) I would have put the swear checker on eye to full use. What a thoroughly dislikeable chap Mr Clemo appears to be. Quite why he is subscribing to eye at all is a mystery.
@redhomes – You have 428 properties listed for sale on your web site so not exactly setting the world on fire are you. There will always be room for both types of agent but in the end the good High Street agent with their local knowledge will inevitably beat the internet based agent. Supermarkets caused the demise of the local shop but now they are fighting back by offering personal service and excellent products.
Wow. Why is there always someone who flys off in a foaming rant whenever someone (with 40 years behind them) offers the opinion that not much has changed in his time supplying agencies? Why do online agents always attack the pricing model of High St agencies? Its a competitive marketplace, clients can do their own research and choose, and sorry Mr Clemo, but by and large they choose High St agencies, and according to your website you have plenty of them!!
I disagree with some of the comments made by Mike Wright of Wright's Plastics.
Quote: "They still look for a high street branch with an enticing window display and a team with local knowledge.” End quote.
This is just not true. The only reason some people look in agent's windows is just because they are there. The majority of buyers come via the internet and do not enter agent's offices as they are time constricted and look for their new property in the comfort of their new home using portals.
I agree that vendors/sellers prefer a local agent but the majority of vendors already know who their local agents are and normally get 3 in to value their property without the need to enter an office, again for the same reason as the buyer, scarcity of time and it's completely unnecessary.
The reason why things haven't changed too much over the last 40 years is because no-one in the industry or media is highlighting the significant changes i.e. the internet/property portals have made over the last 10 years.
Office based agents, which are the majority in the U.K. who charge their clients as much as they possibly can without any justification whatsoever certainly don't inform anyone as it's not in their interest to. If they did then vendors would question why they charge so much! But these agents use the internet to list ALL of their properties, hence most buyers come from there.
How can it be fair that two vendors in the same street with the same property at the same value can be charged a different fee by the same high street agent? This is common practice throughout the U.K.
What extra does Mrs A. get by paying 2% than her neighbor Mrs B. who is paying 1%?……..Absolutely nothing!!! Mrs A. is eventually worse off by thousands of pounds. If anyone can give a valid reason why this is fair then I would love to know.
Bearing in mind of course that an agent hasn't been born yet that can persuade anyone to:
a. buy a property they don't like
b. buy one they cannot possibly afford and
c. buy on the buyers know to be overpriced
Would you allow an agent to persuade you to do any one of those three things?….Of course not!
It is a fact that agent's fees are only based on their overheads. The higher the overheads the more they will try to charge their clients with no benefit to their client whatsoever. Most homeowners in the U.K. just don't 'get it' because no-one is informing them except companies like ours who are few and far between AT THE MOMENT.
Vendors who continue to use agents who charge extortionate fees are the same people who 'buy one get one free' when shopping to save pennies and who buy items on-line to save pounds. But for some reason they appear to be happy squandering thousands of pounds of their hard earned valuable equity by paying agents thousands of pounds when they don't have to instead of spending it on their own family!
Agent's offices are totally unnecessary for selling property today. Our successful group is absolute proof of this. Our agents have sold thousands of properties of all types since 2005 at our fee of 0.75% whilst providing a full agency service and have saved millions in combined equity for our clients. Our clients get to keep the majority of their hard earned equity.
If there wasn't a single agent's office on the High Street it wouldn't make any difference whatsoever to the amount of property sold. Everyone would have to use the internet.
Eventually the homeowners of the U.K. will wake up and then we will see the majority of high street agents disappear for the good of everyone.
Yours sincerely
Steve Clemo
C0 Managing Director, Red Homes Ltd
In my local patch I've observed maybe 10 properties in the past 5 years marketed with "online agents". 9 of them went on to instruct a local high street agent having has a dismal experience initially. They did of course lose the money they'd paid up front to have a picture of their house uploaded to the internet. The majority of high street agent costs are marketing and staffing, not premises.
"What extra does Mrs A. get by paying 2% than her neighbor Mrs B. who is paying 1%?……..Absolutely nothing!!! Mrs A. is eventually worse off by thousands of pounds. If anyone can give a valid reason why this is fair then I would love to know."………..Yet another socialist.
Well, if he IS a socialist, Paul H, he's a socialist who can't spell "neighbour"! 😉
First and foremost, he's a billshutter of the highest Order.
"Eventually the homeowners of the U.K. will wake up and then we will see the majority of high street agents disappear for the good of everyone."….Viva le revolution!
Absolute nonsense.
"Bearing in mind of course that an agent hasn't been born yet that can persuade anyone to:
a. buy a property they don't like…"
MDT, Sir. A buyer doesn't have to "like" a property to actually buy it.
It depends entirely on what their primary motivation is. You need to know that – amazing, in your position, that you don't apparently 'know' it already. You will no doubt, since 2005 – or whenever you entered our industry – have lost your sellers potential sales as a result.
"b. buy one they cannot possibly afford…"
Now THERE'S a piece of NSS logic that we will all bow to your knowledge of…
"c. buy on the buyers know to be overpriced"
Again – your naivety shines like a beacon. Keep it up.
"If there wasn't a single agent's office on the High Street it wouldn't make any difference whatsoever to the amount of property sold. Everyone would have to use the internet."
Think so? Pity you'll never know whether you were wrong or very wrong on that account.
Tip it on it's @r$e, however – if there was no INTERNET – then online Agents (and many with offices who simply don't know how to work without it) would cease to exist very quickly indeed.
Now THAT WOULD be good, for everyone. Bring it on.
"Our agents have sold thousands of properties of all types since 2005 at our fee of 0.75%"
Really?? Come on then – amaze us with a number – JUST HOW MANY "thousands of properties" have you and your happy band sold since 2005?
I, for one, can't wait for the answer.
"Our clients get to keep the majority of their hard earned equity."
HARD EARNED EQUITY? Talk me through that one, will you, please?
Lying in bed at night dreaming about your home increasing in value doesn't seem too hard graft to me.
You really should read what you tripe (no typo) before pressing 'Post Comment', Sir.
Ridiculous statement such as that do you no favours whatsoever.
Oh, dear, Mr Clemo – cat got your tongue?
You post the rubbish above, to which no-one with an ounce of sense in their heads are going to take as gospel (which speaks volumes as to the level you set YOUR bar for posting it in the first place…) – and then when challenged, you shirk away from responding to what are relevant and justified questions.
As I have previously commented, YOUR type are those to which our industry has no place.