I was out in London town earlier this month for a birthday celebration and bumped into a number of the OnTheMarket senior team.
We started to enjoy a conversation whilst chomping on our cigars and slurping whisky in the garden at the RAC Club.
The chat moved quickly on, to me giving them some expert marketing advice on how to save their failing brand.
This is how the story began…
A few years back I led a large consumer research project, running focus groups across the nation.
I wanted to test creative ideas, one being “cars you cannot find anywhere else”.
In short, it tested badly as the feedback was a Ford Focus is a Ford Focus. But the respondents also highlighted the fact there is a huge consumer appetite for this in the property market.
With this in mind there is three seconds of genius in the OnTheMarket TV creative, but it looks like they didn’t have the conviction to put all their chips down on it.
The line “homes you cannot find anywhere else” is the only bit a consumer cares about.
The whole one other portal rule was just a stupid idea, most likely the brainchild of one of the commercial team. It might have sounded good in the boardroom, but in reality it’s only made the strong even stronger.
You have a copycat website and you want to be just like Rightmove and Zoopla: so how does this benefit the consumer?
You don’t have the legacy or inventory of Rightmove or the smart informative insight of Zoopla (let along the years and marketing millions invested in building the brands).
You need to make OTM a destination website and currently it simply isn’t one. It needs to be a niche website.
At this point Ian butts in and scoffs: “Look, we’ve done that before, we don’t want another luxury brand.”
This is how the story continued…
If you wanted to give consumers a reason to visit OTM over the competition, why didn’t you make it a buyer preview website?
Think of it like Secret Escape vs Hotels.com or Groupon vs Amazon.
These examples have far less inventory than the industry dominator, but are successful in their own way.
Why didn’t OTM become the preview website of new homes before they reach Zoopla and Rightmove? It then answers the obvious question as to why any home buyer would go to the OTM website in the first place.
If the OTM homepage was just an email capture form with postcode, at least they could have built a valuable database on the back of their TV campaign.
The OTM team thought they could turn on the marketing switch and create a brand. Frankly, this was always ludicrous.
The SEO structure they used is the same as Find A Property, built by the same digital guys that once worked for DMGT. With no SEO footprint, PR authority, CRM database, digital optimisation, real life UX, brand awareness, plus lack of listed homes, the OTM team always faced a massive mountain to climb.
The team at eMoov and I have released a number of articles over the last 12 months highlighting the poor marketing performance of OTM.
All metric portraits failure considering the amount of money invested. Cost per lead, cost per visitor, retention rates or brand awareness.
I’d be surprised if OTM have sold more than a handful of properties.
This is how the story ended…
Get rid of the one portal rule. Allow ALL estate agents to advertise. Give the brand a focus. Be bold, be brave or it’s goodnight.
Please be aware, this conversation never took place, but was created to highlight my professional opinions.
EYE’s footnote: Stephen Jury is the in-house PR to eMoov. Readers may, or may not, agree with eMoov’s proposition, but the remarkable number of column inches that Jury has generated for the online agent is undeniable.
As an online agent, eMoov cannot list on OnTheMarket.
We should also make it clear that it was EYE that asked Jury how he would market OTM. We did not attempt to influence his reply.
Comments (69)
Mr Jury
Right at the start of this thread, I asked one simple question.
Unlike your CEO, you are generally willing to engage. In fact, you have posted SIX TIMES on this thread following my original post and the single, simple, question it carried, which still sits unanswered.
I ask it again – just in case you can’t for some reason scroll back to the top:
IF OTM dropped the OOP rule; and IF it allowed non-High Street Agents to list…
…WOULD EMOOV JOIN?
I would very much appreciate a response.
In a way supporters of OTM and AM may only need to look in the mirror to see their biggest restraint. ……….
There you go trolling the Eye audience by publishing contrived tosh is an experiment that can be put down as a failure.
Readers like Paul H and Ric are noticeable by their absence, they won’t be trolled into posting by the sort of story and contributor that has driven them away.
I used to be an avid 0630 club member, not any more.
PeeWee, absolutely brilliant post. It totally sums this supposed dilemma up
This is (probably) the only chance we will all have. Just do it.
No, no, no. Don’t ditch the one other portal rule. Ditch BOTH portals.
It is, I am sorry to say, embarrassing. Embarrasing and equally infuriating to watch this as an ex estate agent and now impartial industry observer. Half the Estate Agents who feel they are held to ransom by RM & Z, when presented with a cure are paralysed by fear. Fear of what; fear of being RM & Z free or is it you wouldn’t remember how to “Estate Agent” without RM & Z propping you up? Half of you have stood up for your industry and the other half have abandoned it through analysis paralysis. I respect you are entitled to your doubts, but the one clear truth is whinging and inaction is not the solution.
Like or loathe OTM you have two choices. Change nothing and nothing will change OR you could stand up and be counted. You have the chance to give the bigger kid(s) a ****** nose. Just bleedin well do it will you! The amount of bickering going on in this debate is winding me up and I don’t even give these portals money any more.
Set a date, pull the plug on RM & Z and all your customers can ride the media frenzy wave to your OTM branded agency door.
Right, that’s it, my work here is done. I’m off now to tell the Americans how to behave. You lot, when you’ve put your handbags down, can thank me later.
That call sounds almost as dictatorial as Trump
OTM plough your own furrow.
To be similar to RM & Z will do you no favours.
However Mr Jury has in my opinion missed the point.
It isn’t about one other portal rule or even pre market view or any such thing
It’s exclusively about the consumer (house buyers and sellers, not the agent) and how the consumer uses and enjoys the experience using OTM.
Crack that your on to a winner, follow the heard you are no where.
Didn’t I read yesterday that an OTM agent had bought an established online agency?
Why can’t you all just accept that the ‘online’ offering is here to stay and trying to create a portal to get back to the good old days just isn’t going to happen.
That’s all it is, an offering. You lot offer to press a few buttons to list a house on rightmove. That’s it. Job done! And you get paid for doing that between500 to 1000. Scandalous.
12:30- 50 posts, cue Bon Jovi
all together now
We’ve got to hold on to what we’ve got
‘Cause it doesn’t make a difference if we make it or not.
We’ve got each other and that’s a lot for love –
We’ll give it a shot.
We’re half way there – Livin’ on a prayer
Instead of thinking about today, agents need to look ahead for they may be driving up a Cul-de-sac.
Don’t stop thinking about tomorrow
Don’t stop – it’ll soon be here
It’ll be better than before
Yesterday’s gone… yesterday’s gone.
I would normally follow a quote with (credit:*** ) – but seeing as the post count is flagging I will throw it open to the EYE audience.
Who wrote those wonderful words?
was it Day and the Disruptors in 2012?
Nah… nor was it ‘Russ and the Ragtag Rebels’ in 2009…2010…2011…2012…
Stephen – only one part of your rather pointless advertorial is engaging:
‘homes you cannot find anywhere else” is the only bit a consumer cares about..’
So Agents should drop both RM and Zoopla and the statement would be accurate. It will happen and with the increasingly difficult market many are experiencing I think it will happen sooner rather than later.
People need to remember the reason behind the one other portal rule. It was clever if you take an open mind. OTM needed an early and very fast traction to break into an established and monopoly market. One also needs to remember why OTM came about in the first place. Z took the hit and many agents didn’t see that as a great loss. RM didn’t suddenly grow in numbers as a result but stayed the same, it was #1 already. The whole argument over the other portal rule is trivial as many can’t afford to be on three portals and of course those that were going to loose out and the main protagonists were those from portals now left out in the cold and others not being high street agents barred from OTM.
Today those same protagonists continue to bombard OTM and yet they don’t complain about RM or Z or INEA or any other property portal. Why, because they are not allowed on OTM.
High Street agents needs to look to the future, google is currently a minor player as we are not a multi listing industry, the public are still following the lead of the high street agent marketing. However will that change in the future? Never before has the public been bombarded on the TV by web only portals who frankly use anti high street agenda to promote their, frankly devious and misleading business’s. They want to put you out of business. Your future as a High Street agent no matter how you look at it and certainly the competition doesn’t like it, is OTM. You need to wake up, sooner than later.
On a side note I have already commented before today that AM needs to review dropping the one other portal rule, as time has moved on from launch and any business should always be prepared to review its position and take the next gear up. Joining fee should be reduced for new member’s over the next 12 months at least. It is a concept that is not new in business, most agents do it to their vendors at some time or another. I can’t see any agent that pays say £50 a month (as rumours abound) is beyond affordability and being on three four or five hundred web sites isn’t going to drive your buying public away from you.
SJ what a load of nonsense you talk. This is your sitting on pedestal thinking you know everything. far from it, it is nothing more than another go at OTM. I am surprised that EYE went and ran this story, shame on you. This is nothing more than a trolls rant.
Interestingly it only refers the other portal rule. That argument has been put to bed so many times, I’ve fallen asleep and is not news. Come on EYE get your act together.
The one other portal rule would have sounded great in a boardroom, and seemed a fantastic opportunity when planning this venture. The issue is, a site like this, with agent backing etc. was already going to have it’s cynics, and naysayers wanting to shoot it down, but the whole other portal rule I think took the desire of others for this to fail to a whole new level.
When you’re a market challenger you have to be “quiet niche” initially. But to be a challenger who shouts the odds and rubs up their competition like this from the get go (by which I mean Zoopla) of course you just make your life harder. And incidentally when I say a quiet niche, I’m referring to antagonising any of the current market players, not shying away from strong, bold marketing.
In hindsight, no they shouldn’t have used the one portal rule. They should have just focused on a USP, that drove customers to them first, and their job should have been reconditioning the consumer in this fashion. The difficulty now is once you’ve done it, it’s very difficult to suddenly back track on that. It would be a sign of weakness in my opinion. However if there was a complete clean out of operational staff and leadership, then a new management team could get away with saving face by coming in and removing the one portal rule.
Someone also needs to brainstorm how to create said USP. An agent backed site logically should seek to dominate the data side of things. ie if you’re going to restrict what your competitor portals have access to, make it sales results data from house sales. If I’m Chesterton and I sell a property, tell OTM but don’t tell anyone else. Then use that data in an aggregate to provide customers with relevant market information. (I say aggregates as exact sale prices can just be lifted and copied).
As a landlord, Stephen has hit the nail on the head. I see no reason to look at OTM to see what properties are for sale. OTM does not give ME anything as a property buyer.
For example OTM could drop the “one other portal” rule, but require its members to ALWAYS put a good floor plan with dimensions on their listing on OTM, and not to provide a floor plan on the other portals.
OTM could provide the land registry listings for a property for “free” along with the full text of any lease etc.
As a landlord or seller ringi you should be wanting OTM to succeed.
One of the reasons we find OTM so easy to get our property owners to buy into is that it doesn’t show information that works against them such as other properties on the market nearby that you are competing with, how much you paid for the property or changes in your asking price.
I’ve seen one where it shows the landlord put the asking price up 11% a couple of days after it was first listed. How helpful is that?
This is like watching a bunch of ill-tempered and ravenously hungry hyenas snarling at each other over a piece of meat. If they spent less time snarling and more time having a constructive dialogue they might do themselves more good.
Personally, I thought the ‘one other portal’ rule was genius. How else could you create so much damage to the big two so quickly ? Over the last 16 or so months, I have seen many of my competitors come together with one focus and Zoopla in particular have offered me some great deals to return…so it must be working..and I am receiving great QUALITY leads from OTM, just not as many as R at the moment…but they do seem to be increasing month on month.
“How else could you create so much damage to the big two so quickly ”
Perhpaps if you were around a two hunderd years ago you really might be breaking the machines with the other Luddites
OTM is dying, simple as, won’t make a blind bit of difference what they do now.
‘OTM is dying’…..how can you justify this ? You have clearly not been to a recent OTM meeting and seen the determination of all the agents attending !
I’m sure they are very determined, they have a five year contract after all.
And it is pretty much the same people attending as last year, they haven’t excatly grown very much have they to be fair
After all that this conversation took place in the RAC club not the dog and duck money well spent no doubt…!! Whilst you all work hard to pay your OTM fees staff wages rent rates etc these fat cats at the top are living high on the hog Agents Mutual….. didn’t there used to be something called communism …..?? All created equal except some are more equal than others.
Wake up and smell the coffee people, freedom of choice is everything when you are told what you can do it fast becomes a dictatorship nothing MUTUAL about that.
This is the risk. Just say OTM kill off RMV and Zoopla then what?
The power in the hands of the CEO would be awesome and devastating for a large proportion of us. We would be complete hostage to this mothership of a dictatorship
If – and it won’t. As a singular dominant property outlet the CMA would stamp on it for banning non Hg Street agents. Today online only agents have two bigger portals to advertise on.
If anything the one other only portal rule is a big aid to restraining traditional Hg St agents from gaining as much exposure to online only agents who do RM and Z.
In a way supporters of OTM and AM may only need to look in the mirror to see their biggest restraint. ……….
Did you read the above article?
Glad you liked the RAC reference. I thought it was the type of place they would like to spend the mutual money
Self-interested actors purporting be acting out of benevolence for other sales negotiators. Absolutely hilarious if it wasn’t so catastrophic. And yes, as usual the smug and pompous or those who like to think they’re smug and pompous using the directorships to shaft their shareholders and employees.
My ten peneth – do not make the USP of OTM “properties you can’t find elsewhere” – vendors hate the fact that their property might be delayed on getting on Rightmove and every other place that counts.
Delaying this is not in the customers interest. Any business putting their interests above those of their customers will fail.
I agree that OTM should drop the utter nonscence on the portal rule but not for the reasons in this article. Any publisher will tell you, If you don’t control content ( in this case stock) you don’t control the audience and thus you have nothing.
however this nomad “Jury” can have all the column inches he likes. He’s a self proclaimed expert that landed himself a few pay cheque. In current format, Emoovs position doesn’t lie. It has to date and will continue to play poor cousin to Purple bricks, easy property, Beenys mob and even sell my shack.com
Emoovs value proposition it little more than average, and indifferent. Which for an any estate agent is a slow death
Let’s all willingly pay another £400 a month to join a website that is still unknown by many home movers, just to help them become a player in the portal market and instead of having a duopoly.. Have a trio of portals to pay for at no advantage to us on the ground!
Great idea.
On another note.. In my opinion the only way OTM will gain any momentum is if the however many of thousand offices now support them… Grow some balls and drop the other two portals and prove they believe in the cause they’re so graciously fighting for. So they say.
Then they may find that more agents begin to believe in what they’re trying to achieve.
The only way OTM will gain any momentum? Do you mean up or down?
In the major towns in our area, a straight head count of Zoopla and OTM shows the stock levels as 41% and 59% respectively. It’s got to that in a year despite the rubbishing of their approach by Mr Jury and the predictions of his boss and others with a vested interest in seeing it fail..
On the other hand what sort of momentum does Zoopla have for those that are lumbered with it because they don’t have a choice (corporates) or because OTM doesn’t want them (Emoov)?
It’s downhill all the way and THAT’S why Russell and his mini me are so desperate for it to change otherwise as I said in an earlier post, why would they give a monkeys?
Nail and head spring to mind.
If it’s so rubbish and failing, why are you so desperate to get onto OTM Mr Jury? Your leader has been incessant in his criticism of all things OTM.
If you don’t want to get onto OTM why do you give a tinkers about what the rest of us are doing?
Did you read the above article? EYE clearly stated that they asked Mr Jury for his comments.
Did you read the article! He finishes by saying that he made the whole thing up and that says it all!
Look if this were the only Jury/Quirk/Emoov comment on their view of OTM I wouldn’t have bothered but I just don’t get why they waste so much time and energy telling those that are on OTM the error of their ways.
If one of my competitors was making an absolute pigs ear of his marketing I’d happily let him carrying on doing it. It means he’s not spending his money on more effective ways of trying to get business from me.
As I’ve said in another post, it can only be because Zoopla is in decline and Russell is desperate not to just have his eggs in the very expensive Rightmove basket.
The lady doth protest too much methinks (not made up!)
no way, portals sell houses! Learn something new every day!
“Get rid of the one portal rule and allow ALL estate agents to advertise”
Emoov aren’t estate agents, they’re button pressers
BIG difference
Pretty sure there is an easy innuendo here about achieving great things by pushing the right buttons…… but maybe not one for the forum.
Pretty sure if you tried it would involve faking it!
I’d be surprised if OTM have sold more than a handful of properties.
Oh, Stephen – you threw yourself right on your own sword there, matey. That one, little, yet so telling sentence
Cue the deluge…
Show me any credible data to confirm this
You’re digging the pit deeeeeper…
Umm! looks like a concerted effort to encourage a big comment count.
you two will add 50 of todays 100 😉
I doubt it; I didn’t get as far as reading the reckonings before working out this is the sort of vexatious tosh story that killed off EAT.
You’d better hope not, Mr J – I haven’t even engaged gear yet.
You’ll know when I do.
Say ‘Hi’ to my Follower/UnFollower The Quirkster for me.
Oh – and remind him that the questions he paid someone to read still await answering.
Tell you what – seeing as you’re around and taking comments, here, as a reminder – and in order that you don’t have to trawl The Archive to find the original message I repeat the entire message below which contains a couple of questions he has so far failed to respond to (the LAST set he has ignored, that is… I’m guessing it’s an even bigger waste of time hoping he would answer the multitude of others that litter the path we have trodden so far…).
I’ve amended it a bit, as he stated on Tw@tter that he doesn’t read these posts. I’ve tried to make it a little more personal to the actual recipient.
Thanks in advance, Mr J, for your valued assistance in getting these questions answered. Sorry for unashamedly hijacking your article – but I simply can’t wait for the answers and I’m far from the only one.
OPEN MESSAGE (ORIGINALLY POSTED ON FEBRUARY 12 BUT HE DOESN’T READ THESE THINGS, APPARENTLY…) TO MR RUSSELL QUIRK – NOW VIA WHOEVER READS THESE THINGS FOR HIM.
Sir/Madam – could you please ascertain the following from Mr Quirk:
On the subject of your fees and the…ahem… ‘inventive’ claims that surround them.
1. On your website you state
Savings Calculator. The commission fee examples included in the savings calculator are intended for illustrative purposes only and are exclusive of VAT.
Sorry – I’m more than a bit surprised by this – EXCLUSIVE of VAT? You’re SURE?
Funny, that. Your ‘example’ shows a property price of £300,000, and an Agent’s commission of 1.5%. Now – it’s been a while… and admittedly I did fail my Maths ‘O’-Level (on purpose) – but when I was at school that would have come to a figure of £4500.
YOUR Fee, would be no doubt based upon your lowest offering, of £595 (or £495.83 EXCLUSIVE of VAT as you state in the claim…)
I get that to be a claimed “saving” of £4004.17. I’ve even checked it on one of them abacus things we used before digitality allegedly took over.
SO… my question to you in respect of the above is as follows
HOW COME THE SAVINGS CALCULATOR STATES “YOU COULD SAVE £4,805 WITH EMOOV?”
2. Now to the latest in a series of what I’m sure you refer to as “slight amendments” to your previous and present claims – this 99% of something malarkey.
I note – and have had others point it out also – that you or someone who writes for you have amended your Twitter description to state
“Founder & CEO of http://eMoov.co.uk . A better estate agent. And local everywhere. 99% of asking price consistently achieved! (ASA validated)”
My question – straightforward though it is – HAVE THEY? REALLY?
I suppose that’s two questions – but luckily you only have to provide ONE answer – which of course I and no doubt several others will be seeking ASAs confirmation of…
over TO YOU, Sir (via whoever writes the responses to the questions directed at you, that someone reads for you) – you (or that other person) have the floor!
As an OTM user I really don’t care. Selling properties through OTM is not the goal as I see it. Firstly they need to keep increasing offices and stock to move past Hoopla. Strangely enough we have recently sold two properties direct from OTM leads but they were probably flukes.
Those people so sure and confident they can do better should do exactly that. With 73% of the industry apparently panting for and campaigning for an alternative to the Duopoly on the one hand, OTM on the other go and build it then set about selling it.
The rewards are huge; 14,600 branches not in AM (not on OTM) build the ideal solution and charge what you like, you’ll be quids in.
You’d think with all that talent, experience, knowledge , confidence, media connection, investors cash and know it all advice they could come up with a web based business that isn’t wholly reliant on portals for any sort of internet presence and would feature somewhere in natural Google search results of its own accord.
Awful idea. Instead of spying for 2 portals we would be paying for three. No chance of it then becoming the portal of choice.
What chance does it have right now?
At the moment none as they have not set out to what they were meant to do, walk away from RM.
All allowing you to be with OTM
Would walking out for the weekend from rightmove give them more of a chance?
At the moment none as they have not set out to what they were meant to do, walk away from RM.
All allowing you to be with OTM and other portals does is increase monthly spend, the whole point was to reduce costs not increase them.
Exactly. OTM must stick by their guns. Despite the stick they get from some, OTM is actually doing very well with numbers and won’t have to wait too long to pass Hoopla. Don’t give in now. All that would do is play into Hoopla’s hands and make it more difficult to pass them.
Morning Stephen.
Question.
IF OTM dropped the OOP rule; and IF it allowed non-High Street Agents to list…
…WOULD EMOOV JOIN?
Do you really want to be keeping an eye on 3 portals for ‘technical glitches’ that cause listings to disappear and reappear like Goffers?
Funniest thing I have seen to date from the anti high street agent crowd. We appreciate that you have taken the time to post a thoughtful article, and you have taken a break from your fake conthemarket twitter account. It is worth noting no matter how much you and emoov slavishly promote Zoopla they will never buy your amateur bedroom business. For further laughs have a look at the fantastic Australian site homely.com.au. The marketing team at emoov.co.uk have robbed everything including the logo. STEPHEN you have not reinvented search you have re-invented theft.
“We appreciate that you have taken the time to post a thoughtful article”
Offside! refeeereee! who it this appreciative we?
Other than family, friends, crowdfunders and sympathetic small children see if you can find someone who is glad any tiny part of the ether has been used up on this story.
If it means more competition & lower fees from RM & Z …. yes !
See the plank’s back…
Thanks very much!
YOU’RE not the plank – he/she/clearly-prefers-not-to-state habitually ‘Dislikes’ you as well!
The idea of this story is to troll the readership into a monster post count (it says so on Twitter) so I’m just posting random stuff to help it on its way.
65 to go – it’s gonna be a long day methinks…