Well, the Chancellor has played a blinder this time.
At least one major lender is struggling to cope with the Stamp Duty Land Tax deadline of midnight tonight.
It is going to prove a very long day – again.
Conveyancers were back at their desks before dawn broke this morning, with many not having stopped after working throughout the night.
For instance, late last night, I was told by EYE that one conveyancing office and the lender involved were planning to stay open until yesterday until 10pm and will have opened at 5am today to process completion on one deal.
Agent Trevor Kent late yesterday evening told EYE of that state of play.
Meanwhile, set out below are a few of the emails I received yesterday afternoon from some of my members:
“I am in the midst of a Mortgage Works completion at £950,000 and no sign of my mortgage advance despite my asking for it for yesterday. Clients are in despair.”
“We have major problems with the Mortgage Works relating to completions before month end. Our advance requests were submitted in accordance with their timescales but we have had no acknowledgement or other communication from them. Today’s record is 43 minutes on hold before being cut off. Good job we haven’t exchanged but the penalty for not completing this month will be very harsh…”
“No money received, no return emails, can’t get through on the phone. My matters are likely to collapse.”
“I have a late completion on another matter of mine – a sale this time. The other side don’t have funds and have spent three hours trying to get through to the Mortgage Works on this today chasing funds!”
“I have been on hold virtually all day chasing funds for a completion today that I requested for yesterday and the phone says “due to unforeseen circumstances we are not able to take your call”. My client is obviously desperate to complete before by the end of the month! You get cut off when you have been on hold for an hour so have to join the back of the queue.”
“I have been told that any advance requests dated 24th March onwards will not get monies until April now!! They are now so busy as they do so much BTL business, they just cannot cope.”
What we needed yesterday is extended CHAPS times!
The bigger problem of course is that any chain that these type of transactions are in will be affected from top to bottom. That is likely to be a huge percentage of the transactions currently taking place. I do hope things get better as the final day progresses, but I have my doubts.
It is somewhat ironic that the government wants to “inject innovation into the process of home buying, ensuring it is modernised and provides consumers with different – and potentially quicker, simpler and cheaper – ways to buy and sell a home.”
When clients ask who is to blame for this week’s fiasco, point them in the direction of number 11 Downing Street.
- Rob Hailstone is founder of conveyancing network the Bold Group
Comments (24)
I am very serious about this smile please. I will look at your comments, and those of Jon and see if I can establish the first step in what could be in a 1000 mile journey.
Wwe need to pick this discussion up and see if things can be improved.
Rob,
If you are serious about addressing concerns, i suggest opening a thread in the Arena where we can all add to and discuss. I have looked at your website and in your members area and know my concerns do correspond to the local solicitors i have. FYI this is not aimed at you or your members this is an industry wide issue.
For what its worth, what i would like looked at to bring solicitors in line with what agents expect in 2016 are:
1. Time conveyancers are at their desks = 9-5pm and an hour / hour and a half for lunch is no longer acceptable. They need to be at their desks and taking calls from 9am they need to work til 6pm. If they want a lunch break they need cover. That does not mean a voicemail, that does not mean an individual covering the phone and taking a message. It means somebody that can give precise answers to questions being asked.
2. Relevant updates – If an agent asks “What is outstanding?” we do not want “Awaiting replies to enquiries sent on *** Date” We want to know what enquiries are outstanding so we can advise the clients as chances are the other sides solicitor has not passed it on.
3. A diary system that works – If a solicitor has requested information from a managing agent, the other side or the client they need to have a chase up system in place. if they are waiting more than 5 working days they need to chase it.
4. Use a telephone and email – I understand some requests need to be made in writing but why all of it? – If you are awaiting money on account for searches, instead of writing to the client pick the phone up and call them.
5. If you have an online up date system use it properly or do not bother at all – More and more solicitors are now using the email updates that get sent through when a mile stone is reached. But most in my experience is box ticking and done way after the event has occurred. if you are not using them as you should do not bother.
6. Moving Dates – If an estate agent puts a moving date on a sales memo please acknowledge it and aim for it. If it is not possible or too ambitious let the agent know from the outset do not ignore it.
7. Attitude – Too many solicitors see estate agents as a nuisance. We are not we are trying to help our mutual clients who are no doubt chasing us. Why not use us? – If you know there is outstanding items, let us know so we can help.
8. Relationship – Look to cultivate relationships with us, we can be your biggest supporter and get you business, do not look down on us treat us as an equal and take time to get to know us.
9. Workload – If you have too many cases advise us that things will be slow or invest in more staff. I have no doubt the majority of solicitors do a good and through job. However they are slow or have too many cases. Address the problem do not ignore it.
10. Turnaround times – If something comes in and is on the solicitors desk it should be looked at within 2 working days. It is not uncommon for solicitors to receive something and take a week or longer to even look at it let alone respond to it. This adds up and takes a 6 week case to a 12 week case.
11. Probate – The same way we have the power to influence buyers / sellers. You have the power in influence potential sellers, If you are in a conveyancing department and you have a probate department look to see who is getting the probate instructions might not be who deserves them. Also is the probate department looking to recommend agents or just telling the estate to get a couple of valuations?
12. Call fielding – If we ask to speak to you we want to speak to you not your secretary. Understand sometimes you cannot take our calls but there is a number of solicitors that never take calls.
13. Help us, Help you – Monday mornings and Friday afternoons are probably the worst time to call you. Build a relationship with agents and explain this. Maybe set aside a time in your diary once or twice a week to call the estate agent with a round up on cases going through as chances are we have a number with you. Be nice for you to call us and let us know what is happening.
14. Cheques and Faxes – Internet banking, its the norm get involved every other industry in the world has. And faxes come on guys who even has a fax machine these days!
Some of the above solicitors say they do it all already, chances are you think you do but you do not.
If I may take the bull by the horns and throw in my view!!! Please note there is an element of sarcasm in here, no apologies. I’ve been involved in the property industry for over 30 years, mainly in conveyancing but also in the not too distant past as MNAEA MARLA and MAPIP. Lawyers are not perfect, then again neither are agents!!
1. Conveyancers are often at their desks before 9 and well after 5. Yes, the switchboard may close at 5 and trust me, when the phone isn’t ringing and there are no interruptions, a lot gets done. Lawyers are entitled to a break and if they can’t be reached for 1/8th of the day, it is no big deal. I doubt there is an agent on this earth who is reachable for at least 10 hours of the day.
2. Quite often, what is outstanding is beyond the knowledge of Agency staff. A number of agency staff have a monotone, reading from a crib sheet and not listening voice, evidenced by the fact that in the past, whilst acting on the purchase of property in the East Midlands, about as far away from the sea as is possible, I have told an uninterested agent that I was waiting for the result of my Sea Defence search, not even questioned!!!! Yes, we could be clearer and this will be covered later.
3. Agreed.
4. Agreed.
5. These are useless and shouldn’t be used. If the lawyer is updating his/her client as and when they should be updated, these systems are redundant.
6. These are pointless and useless. Most of the time, these dates cannot be met for whatever reason and the only purpose they serve is to frustrate all parties and be used as a stick to beat someone. No one can say how long a transaction will take so why put a date in. Do you tell sellers when being instructed on what day their property will sell?
7. Some agents are good, others are worse than useless. All they do is cause problems, e.g a colleague took a call asking for an update, said that she was waiting for a contract and then was subjected to a demand as to why pre contract enquiries hadn’t been raised because they were pre-contract. Clueless. We don’t have time to educate your staff, this is your job.
8. Agreed, but this works both ways. All agents seem to do is moan about how useless lawyers are and if it wasn’t for the agents the world would collapse. We need to help each other and learn from each other.
9. If only it was that easy. I know of a number of firms advertising for lawyers, no applications received. Bad lawyers are hard to find, good ones about as rare as rocking horse poop.
10. We can’t always turn around paperwork that quick, sometimes we have interruptions, such as agents ringing for updates!!!!!!!!
11. Recommendations can get you into trouble if a client then falls out with an Agent. On a probate, the executors are duty bound to obtain the best possible price so we have to send them out there to obtain valuations, we have to do this as do our clients.
12. Why not speak to our support staff. Some are trained to do more than pick up the phone and grunt, some have many years experience and do know what they are talking about. Don’t dismiss a secretary because he/she is a secretary. They have feelings, just like us.
13. If agents know when not to call, why do they? However, if we aren’t quick enough at moving paper, how slow will we be when we are ringing a dozen or so agents a week with updates. We don’t work with just one agent you know. Appreciated, our clients all think they are the only client we have.
14. In this day and age, with email being intercepted at will, poor will, the fax machine is making a comeback, the carrier pigeon would be crossing its fingers for work, if it had fingers. The fax machine is fast becoming important.
I now stand back, flame retardant suit on, waiting for a reaction. All the above said with the best possible intentions.
Love and peace to you all…..
Thanks for the response Jon,
I think so shows the gulf between what is needed and the reason it will not happen.
Above i set out very basic service level agreement. And already its got the back up of a solicitor, despite genuine concerns and sensible recommendations to move an industry forward its dismissed.
And the dismissal is the issue, time and again agents will look to move on a case, relationship, process and its dismissed.
Until solicitors do look in the mirror and admit there is a problem nothing will improve. Now the issues may be money (most often it is) if to deliver the service a client and agent expects then put your prices up. 51% of solicitors business comes from recommendations from estate agents. We would happily recommend solicitors at over £1000 per transaction if the service warranted it.
However we go back to the blame game, estate agent raising an issue and solicitors ignoring it or dismissing it.
Not hard to see who estate agents get so infuriated by solicitors.
SP – no back up here. 30+ years in the business and my skin is unbelievably thick (some would say, like me!!). Any hoo, back on track, yes lawyers aren’t perfect, but neither are agents. If we can’t agree that both professions need to change, nothing will ever change. Agents will still think that lawyers are too slow and behind the times and don’t care and lawyers will still think that all agents are worse than used car sales people who care about nothing more than their commission and spend most of their time on webuyanygrandma.com (and I pray that isn’t an actual website!)
Sorry seemed to have hijacked this post but it is something i am passionate about.
A story came out last week, 51% purchases take the estate agents recommendation. Also you see time and again on here story of poor service solicitors offer. Walk into any estate agent branch ask them the number 1 reason sales are delayed and they will nearly all say solicitors.
And when concerns are raised over the service and time it takes, solicitors get very upset you mentioning it.
Instead of just ignoring the comments would it not be refreshing a firm taking on board comments and finding a way to expedite the process to the benefit of everyone?
I have lost count over the years i have been an estate agent meeting with solicitors, spending the day with them or with us to forge a relationship only for the same issues to reappear!
Agents do not expect a 4 week turn around on every case, and yes from time to time there is reasons why sales are delayed. But the norm of circa 12 weeks to complete would be laughable if it was not so stressful.
Surely solicitors should be looking to get the sale to exchange within an 8 week period?
I do have some sympathy with your views Smile. In my experience the communicative, proactive, ‘able to take a view’ conveyancer/solicitor is a very rare beast. But why are they so rare?
I put it to you that it is because they are now so bound up in red tape from the Law Soc, Lenders, and their P.I. Insurers that the entire conveyancing function is effectively stifled. No-one dares to do it any other way than ‘by the book’.
On top of that most local solicitors in the last 10 years have run down their conveyancing staff numbers to such a degree they cannot offer an effective service.
Add to that the problems caused by managing agents in responding to leasehold enquiries and lenders who play hard to get with the mortgage finance and then obsess at length about some obscure detail of the conveyance and it’s a recipe for endless delays.
Where some conveyancer/solicitors do deserve criticism is in their communication skills which are generally dire. Some seem to still exist in the age of the quill pen.
You make good relevant point Agencyinsider,
I for one do not expect a solicitor to “take a view” if it puts them in a potentially difficult position. I would not do it myself and would not expect them to.
And yes managing agents a massive problem in regards to timescales.
Solicitors have run down their staff which is an issue, they have been dropping fees to be competitive and employing less. They are probably dealing with more cases than ever.
But i am not complaining about cost (and in my experience neither is the client) its about timescales. I would happily recommend a solicitor that charges £1000 basic legal fee instead of the £399 lot if there was a marked difference in service but in my experience there is not.
The fact is solicitors have not adapted to what the client or agent expects in 2016. They still think its 1975!
I am neither a conveyancer, estate agent nor mortgage lender and I have this observation:
Conveyancers generally work ****** hard and are good communicators with their own clients. Perhaps less keen on communicating with the other side.
It’s lenders who generally hold up the show.
Seems in this instance that lenders are the ones who have failed to skill up, staff up and anticipate the deadline crunch.
Interesting observation, and i know the process can be tiresome with lenders. All i will say is as a rough rule of thumb we have a mortgage offer out typically within 4-6 weeks of an agreed sale but we then wait a further 6-8 weeks for the solicitors to be in a position to exchange.
We also are lucky in my part of the world to have a good number of cash buyers, and you would think that with just one property in the chain you would be looking at a 4-6 week exchange / completion but again this typically 12 weeks.
*FYI searches here are usually back in just over a week never more than 2, so the conveyancers cannot use that as an excuse.
I was a conveyancer for 10 years before I changed career to an agent. In that time I never worked 9-5, rarely took a lunch break and always updated my agents and brokers.
Also a rare find was an agent that understood the conveyancing process. Yet expected us to break rules and ignore lender requirements just as long as the agent hit their targets.
What an unnecessary and ill-informed comment smile please. Conveyancers have been busting their b***s recently to try to help as many clients as they can complete in time.
The rather better informed conveyancing services director of one major estate agency chain has just sent me an email containing these words: “Our sincere thanks and appreciation of the blood, sweat and tears that ALL Conveyancers, from all different types of firms – big or small, High Street or direct – have put in over the past weeks to cope with the Stamp Duty changes, and the rush to beat the 1st April deadline.”
Have you not read this article? The biggest problem seems to be with some lenders.
Lenders are a problem, but conveyancers have this ‘manana’ attitude. Sorry no sympathy for you guys, i am sure a few have worked hard possibly even you or your firm but on the whole your industry lets you down.
The comments from smile please display perfectly the ignorance of many agents who have no knowledge of the conveyancing process whatsoever.
I would suggest it is you johnclay that is displaying the ignorance.
Sales are held up in England through Solicitors not working to a timely manner. Why are they leaving it to a couple of days before completion for requesting funds?
If they had been on the case and got the property to a point of exchange over a week ago they could have requested funds and been in the position to complete.
With your own logic solicitors are ignorant to the lenders. And considering its their job to know timescales and manage the sales to exchange / completion shows how inept some are.
Are you an agent? – If you are i am sure you and your staff do everything they can to make sure timescales are met. How often do you call the solicitor and they have received enquirers but yet to look at, or they are miraculously sending out replies the day you call them, or they are waiting for something form the client and you know the client has already sent it. Or they have had the money on account for searches but not yet applied. All the little 3/4 day delays on every stp of the process adds up to an extra 6 week wait for the chain. I could right a book or or serious of books on the shocking service the majority of solicitors provide.
Problem is most solicitors answer to nobody and have a god complex. They hide behind the “Its takes as long as it takes” line and the service is shocking.
What is a client going to do do if they are unhappy, sack a solicitor half way through a sale? – will never happen and the solicitor knows this. And if the client does or agent does question their timescales they say they do not understand (like you) or they are high maintenance. No the fact is they are just not intune with todays needs.
I couldn’t agree more with smile please. I’ve had more than one conveyancer admit to me that normal residential has been put on a back burner while they look after the BTL transactions.
10 minutes to go before CHAPs closes & we will lose our purchase due to the raised stamp duty. Conveyancer has been brilliant Lender has been useless. Money still not in from them. Only writing this to stop me self combusting. Conveyancer, mortgage broker, us, vendor, estate agent all watching the clock go round in despair ………….
So – what happened, Kardrew12?
Was it all smiles at the 24th hour – or did your Fee fly out of the window along with the vendor’s dreams of a move?
You can’t leave it this way!
Do you know what? We completed!! I don’t know how that happened and am still in shock! Well I do know – bl**dy committed conveyenencer sitting with the accounts on constant ‘refresh’. With managers support money came in 15.38 – went out 15.40. Aparently the CHAPS cut off was 15.45 so oodles of time!!
Both conveyencer and mortgage broker had spent > 1hr each on to the lender in the morning chasing the funds.
I need to treat our conveyencer to a manicure!
IS ANYONE SURPRISED?
Yep silly idea from the government but they need to raise cash from somewhere and taxing property seems to be the fashionable thing at the moment.
I have no sympathy for conveyancers, if they had listened to estate agents and their clients in the last few weeks they would be ready by now. Instead enjoying the 9-5 with an hour lunch thrown in. Still you guys work in the clients best insterests i am sure 🙂
Looks like we have a few conveyancers that read Eye, Feel free to justify your part time hours 😉
Sit back everyone. I’m going golf. Too much brain damage for one day.