A campaign is gaining momentum to get agents in the north-east to quit all other portals apart from OnTheMarket – and pull off at the same time.
Estate agent Mark Small, of Signature, which has four branches, launched the initiative.
Small is one of some 190 members of a regional group backing OnTheMarket.
He says that so far, almost all the agents along the coast within a ten-mile radius of Whitley Bay have agreed to pull off Rightmove, Zoopla and other portals. The same decision has been agreed by virtually all the agents in South Shields.
Small said that, on an analysis of yesterday’s listings, the agents in the Whitley Bay area who are quitting Rightmove and Zoopla have 92.5% of market instructions, while in South Shields, the agents have 87% of market share.
A meeting is due to be held on October 15 when he expects recruitment numbers to have increased, to agree the date when the agents will give notice.
The campaign leaflet to the 190 agents is headed: “Say NO to all other internet portals!”
It says that doing so will give agents control over their own data and protect them from online agents.
It outlines other reasons.
These include:
- Portals have admitted using our personal data against us with our competitors.
- Savings – portals are expensive and their high fees mean we are wasting valuable money.
- If we do not control our data our businesses could be at threat. The multi-million pound company Phones 4 U was pushed into administration overnight due to the networks ceasing their feeds.
- Internet only agents can only survive if they have a platform to market their properties on. Whilst other portals are happy to increase their profits by listing their properties, Agents’ Mutual refuse to carry listings from internet only agents.
Small said that, because the north-east housing market has been poor in comparison with London and the south-east, it has not yet been a target for online agents.
However, he said that this situation could rapidly change, with very large amounts of money being pumped into online agency businesses.
“If we continue to instruct other portals, we are allowing our data to be used against us by internet only agents,” Small said.
Comments (95)
And this is why real people doing the job on the ground will always represent value in such an important transaction in peoples lives. On the subject issue couldnt OTM issue something similair to this agent, or incentivise a long established/respected local agent to take on the role of being the facilitator/motivator to get others to jump on board this no-brainer concept.
We would've liked to have joined OTM and after sales call after sales call, we said we don't have a shop front, at that point, they weren't interested in us anymore even though we offer Full Management services etc. How is that fair? So whilst being initially excited about it, we are not anymore. Discriminatory policies, not impressed!
A bit late to this one, but one thing I think gets missed in the constant battle of words between online and traditional. Having done my time in traditional I would like the online to understand the real value of estate agency came from the ENORMOUS crutch we extended and the unlimited time we gave to clients in often very difficult circumstances sorting out negotiation, renegotiation, chains, legal issues, lending issues, surveying issues, moving problems, logistics, indemnitys, sudden deaths, sudden pull outs, gazumpers, gazunderers, time wasters, loonies, DO I need to go on. I earnt my money from that lot, not from uploading to a website!
Best words written on the subject yet, Beano! ;o)
enough said! and very well said at that!
How is OTM having your stock any different from RM & Z ?
Interesting that nobody mentions the consumer in these 'debates'. This is some of the most hilariously ill-informed content I've ever seen on-line. You're being mislead into losing a lot of money, protecting an outdated business model. The public will never get behind an agent lead portal that's ONLY there to protect their own profits. They already DO fully buy into the RM & Z tools in their millions.
The 100's of millions of £'s it takes to create a national brand is widely ignored, regardless of content. This is fact. Remember Ask Jeeves? Globricks? FindAProperty et al? Most of your customers will have RM & Z apps downloaded on their phones (10million+ to date) and will never visit Google to begin a search. This is a fact as is that 55% of all visits to property portals now come from mobiles with Apps (including tablets etc). How many of your own websites are mobile optimised? I'd say less than 30% – as an educated guess. You've got a lot of work to do.
Has anyone acknowledged the fact that Google & Ebay were looking to enter this sphere, with all the technology, development, expertise & most importantly, MONEY they have at their disposal.
Results:
They all spent a vast amount of time & money researching this marketplace & withdrew stating the public (your customers) lack of demand for a third portal. Even with their might, they knew they wouldn't win as the war has already been fought. This is money thrown away and will ultimately land back in the laps of the shareholders of the two major players when you come back. Which you will, paying worse rates.
To even consider the option of OTM being a market leader is frankly terrifying as it highlights how little you know about the marketplace online, consumer behaviour, what it takes to build and maintain a brand. To think the public will support this because you do is folly in its most blatant form.
Remember when Yell rebranded as HiBu? Even with their weight, it looked desperate and sunk almost overnight.
You're business owners – make a business not an emotive decision. The emotive decisions never work, and deep down, you know that to be true.
Facts: Portals are the best solution to your customers needs (buyers, sellers, tenants, Landlords)
* they represent better value than newspapers
* they are battling it out hard on a national scale on TV, radio, Billboards, etc – *why would you leave this kind of promotion for something devisive which they won't let you see?
Think long and hard – the winners here will be the agents that want to do the best for their vendors, and halving the exposure isn't it & the agents who stay where they are and win the OTM agents market share.
Been saying this for weeks! Kudos to you and finally someone with some brains. I don't however fully agree that portals are the be all and end all of online marketing for this industry.
Very kind! 😀
As someone who deals only in fact, I find it astonishing that in this highly competitive business, fact is the one important factor that's being utterly ignored.
No, portal marketing is not the only effective form of marketing, but it's the best value and one that works without doubt or interpretation.
Direct marketing in the guise of Email, print (when done in a targeted & intelligent manner) are available and affordable. Radio & TV – unaffordable at the levels the major portals are doing it at, and one that is out of the reach of OTM…. unless agents dig deep 🙂
"Interesting that nobody mentions the consumer in these 'debates'."
I would respectfully suggest you re-read "these 'debates'" and amend this statement accordingly. Allow me to refer you, as only ONE example, to at least three of my comments written above.
I read these debates over a coffee and a worried laugh daily. Yes, you have discussed vendor behaviour & what it could mean to them, but you're amongst a tiny minority that seem to be paying any mind whatsoever to it.
Has a successful business EVER been set up with such little focus on the end customer? I can't think of one. Successful businesses are created to quench a need….if we look objectively as many seriously big businesses have, you will see there is zero need for another portal in this sphere. The public will decide, and it will be brutal.
On a lighter note!…….. my Rightmove Rep took me for lunch last week and handed me a clutch of Rightmove branded pens! I laughed at the thought that I had paid for these pens via my monthly fee!…. so, I duly handed them out to the waitresses…… I got a very frowny look from my rep! Maybe I have been duped into more marketing on behalf of RM by handing out my pens?! lol However, when I asked the waitress at the end of lunch where her pen was she said someone else had taken it! Probably my rep gathering the pens back in! Happy Days are onthemarket Days!
Good to see these estate agents are putting the interests of their customers first before personal profit… ah, perhaps not!
NATURALLY THESE AGENTS HAVE ALL INFORMED THERE CLIENTS THEY ARE COMING OFF OF THE BIG TWO and explained how their properties exposure to potential buyers/renter is going to minimal moving forward. What a great way to loose instructions to rival agents.
It really is very frightening that so many people with complete lack of business sense run businesses. Perhaps I will start an agency in that area and be on RM, Zoopla, Primelocation etc. I visualise a queue of clients moving from other agents to mine to advertise! Retirement in the year would be a real possibility! 🙂
"I visualise a queue of clients moving from other agents to mine to advertise! Retirement in the year would be a real possibility! :-)" Well… an EQUAL "real possibility would be BANKRUPTCY, '1srTimeBuyer', on the basis that judging by your username you have so far been unsuccessful in negotiating so many as ONE house purchase… ;o)
Do you not understand what they are trying to do???? If ALL the stock barring the Internet agents and a few corporates are on OTM there will be very little stock on RM and Zoopla, so if you did advertise on there would be very little choice. Purchasers will be driven to OTM as that is where the stock is! So instead of retiring you would probably have done your dosh!
The BIG TWO?…… really? For what it's worth, in my region there is no requirement to be on "THE BIG TWO"……. in my case I opted for just ONE of THE BIG TWO….. and yes!….. I have discussed OTM with my clients!…….. noting that most don't actually care whether enquiries come via THE BIG TWO or ONE?…… what they are interested in is our company delivering a sale price which meets their expectations which are also based on my discussions on market value/Home Report value (yes, Scotland still has a Home Report System – similar to your defunct HIPS – with Mortgage Values noted on them) etc etc. My feedback indicates that clients prefer a local, experienced, honest estate agent who delivers on what was originally discussed. So, frankly…. whether I was on Rightmove, Wrongmove, Zippla, Zoplaa is NOT the most important reason for instructing my company! I accept you have your opinion however my opinion is that you place TOO MUCH emphasis on the POWER OF RM, ZOOP etc…….. which brings me ever back to the prospect of MOVING MY ONLINE SHOP WINDOW…. because that's all it is… to onthemarket! I and every other single estate agent that is in business in the UK don't work for RM or Zoop etc…. those companies have manipulated the market where we are effectively unpaid employees paying for the privilege of listing on THEIR ONLINE SHOP WINDOWS… and for buyers?… buyers are clearly intelligent enough to search for properties online, on the high street etc It's NOT ROCKET SCIENCE to inform buyers and sellers that the online property market is changing and there is a NEW ONLINE SHOP WINDOW to look at for OTM… I've already started and my branch windows, sales schedules, window cards, for sale boards, own website, newspaper ad etc will all promote OTM… in fact the BIGGEST MARKETING FORCE in the UK for onthemarket is every single estate agent who will be listed (and will list in due course) with onthemarket……. so, unless I'm missing something here, that RM, ZOOP etc are paying me/my company to market their business then I would be correct in saying that those companies charge me an ever increasing sum of money to provide an ONLINE SHOP WINDOW which they also expect me to promote… I wish you well in your retirement although it may not be for the reasons you think…. certainly when I see the share dealings for the Directors of Rightmove it is astonishing to see that our estate agency efforts are making some very rich people at Rightmove which would be fine if they actually earned it however in my view they really are one step away from the window cleaners as they simply own the shop window… we and our clients stock their shop window, we pay them for their shop window and in addition to that they enjoy substantial personal profit… contrast OTM which seeks to provide a similar ONLINE SHOP WINDOW at a cost which excludes unnecessary profit. I can't help but think what is the motive to be so anti OTM, although many opinions have been offered from both sides. At least I can honestly say that I am NOT motivated towards OTM for personal financial gain in the sense that I just want to pay a fair price for an ONLINE SHOP WINDOW.
Danny said…."Also to add about the "15 million advertising budget" I questioned this after a meeting with the AM rep, it's £15 million over 5 years , £3 million a year. I'd imagine that rm and z spend more than that with google alone never mind tv,outdoor , radio, national press etc"….That reminds me that I've got to get round to sorting out my marketing budget for 2019, it's been playing on my mind for months now and I just havn't got round to setting a fix amount yet, thanks for the reminder!
Looks like a big old lump of straight forward no nonsense Northern sense, splendid and jolly good luck to them – Jonnie
First of all…. congratulations Mark Small and his fellow agents who found a way to work mutually and remove the Overinflated Portal Costs of the Rmove and Zoopla Monsters!
To the detractors of the Agents Mutual concept which is incredibly simple to understand and is clearly welcomed by Estate Agents not brainwashed that Rmive & Zoopla are the only Online Shop Windows!…
Change is coming and the only reason is this…. we the estate agents who pay for a service from Rmove & Zoopla got fed up with being shafted financially! It's that simple! We have decided to change our Online Shop Window, no more than that…. just the Online Shop Window…. potential buyers and sellers will still have competing agents, real agents who want to earn their fee, demonstrate why a real agent really makes the difference!
Remember life without websites!? I do….. almost 30 Years of estate agency experience…. window cards with dyno tape descriptions!
So, get real!
We are moving our Online Shop Window to onthemarket! I don't think its that hard to inform our clients/the public….. if retail existed only online why do we have high street shops, why do John Lewis have ruddy great big stores and their own Online Shop Window!
Yes, I repeatedly see the whinging "collective" word used by detractors… well we are a collective, we are ESTATE AGENTS!…. the invisible strings attached by Rmove & Zoopla DON'T DO MY JOB!….. myself and my colleagues DO!
Get real! THE ONLINE SHOP WINDOW IS MOVING!
Paul – Joe Public ALWAYS wants to save money? Absolutely …. you show people a way to get at or near the same job done for a lower price and a big part of Joe Public will go there … just ask Tesco's. And it isn't just the penny pinchers who shop at Aldi and Lidl it's increasingly the ABC1's. This blind approach that most traditional agents have that OL's simply offer a cheap RM/Z listing service that only cheapskate sellers are interested in is exactly the same ignorance that has seen Aldi and LIdl take increasing market share from the big supermarkets. The big shaker down the line will be EA fees NOT which portal EA's are advertising on. OTM is a diversion to the real change that will come into the market. Fees.
So why do you not have 100% market share?
@smileplease – the online only boys go from comparing themselves to iTunes then they go on a bit about disruption, then here we have one that looks a lot like he's comparing himself to the Aldi, point is, and you can square this how you like, if you are going to be online only and do it big, you need millions of pounds of someone else's money, a dollop of short bloke syndrome, access to RM&Z and the ability to lift around £600 up front from tens of thousands of people before the money man gets cross an impatient, you can't get on the right portals anymore or the small man thing kills you. So far no ones managed it – Jonnie
Coming off the two portals that the public know seems to me to be a good way to lengthen the odds on Mr Springetts 'Bet on the future of High Street agency'!
Paul H – Well they don't need much of a budget in your neck of the woods PeeBee as come January those Geordie property hunters will go to google and type in properties to rent in South Shields, will FIND their way to Rightmove, Zoopla and onthemarket see that 87% of properties are only on #onthemarket and submit their viewing request. Wouldn't you agree?! …………………………… Paul H, you and many others are assuming that if buyers go to RM and Z from 1st Jan and find X amount of properties (and there will STILL be properties on RM and Z whatever OTM do) those same buyers will automatically go "oh, oh, there's got to be more for sale than X amount … let's go searching for more" and somehow end up on OTM … If you think that will happen in droves that is another pie in the sky delusional assumption … Joe Public (and that includes you and me) are creatures of habit and that habit in many cases stops us from acting in a logical way … it is the same habit of using High St EA's that stops Joe Seller beating a path in droves to an online agent offering to sell their house from £395+vat …. However, on that subject. the first online agent to really spend big on TV advertising and nationally expose the fee difference to traditional EA's will have a big impact on Joe Public because Joe Public ALWAYS wants to save money …. they might not go to that particular online agent but plenty will 'get the message' and it will be the start of a game changer for EA fees …. THAT scenario, not RM/Z fees and OTM, will be THE biggest disruptive force in the market …. and it is only a matter of time before that day arrives. Because it will.
Joe Public ALWAYS wants to save money? Yeah right, that's why Joe Public pay 2% to agents and why when Foxtons run their 0% new office campaign, Joe Public go on with another agents and pay not to use them! Yep, it's all about the fee!!!!!! At least I've got to the bottom of your passion and much like all on-liners, the fall of RM & Zoopla will be the real game changer for them, as they no longer will have the exposure that they enjoyed with Traditional agents propping them up. They will have to dig deep and market themselves with their own money and if they succeed, they will still not have all of the market. To be honest they can have the fee driven client, because I'm not after their business anyway. Why do I want to chase down the half percent guy that in all probability will cause me no end of grief. I want to invest my time in going after the clients that will pay a proper fee for a proper job. The Online v Traditional argument is a valid one, but lets not wrap it up in the argument over OTM, because RIGHT NOW, at the time that OTM is launching, online will have zero impact on that, ZERO. The impact OTM's success will have, is by decimating RM/ZP and that ONLINERS will lose exposure. That's why the OL collective (coined a new one there) shout so much and are so desperate to convince the FS (Fencesitters) not to join OTM. I will say again, I don't NEED OTM to succeed, but I want it to. OL's NEED OTM to fail and really WANT it to. I'm not going to be so dismissive of OL, as they are of us old dinosaurs, because they will have their say at some point in the future, a future where traditional and online will work side by side in our industry, but they will have to bang a different drum to the one they are beating today. Traditional agents have been online for years, but we also offer a place where a client can come and see us for whatever reason and more importantly, see the whites of our eyes! We can do alerts, e-shots, text, apps, OTM, blah blah blah, but we can see you and you can see us. We just don't sell houses, we move PEOPLE.
same ol' same ol' blah blah blah. This is so boring! Why don't you just wait and see and stop wasting any more time.
"and so is that NONE of it is being spent TODAY to educate the public that the tide will no longer come in where they expect it to lap up onto the sands as of 1/1/15…"Well they don't need much of a budget in your neck of the woods PeeBee as come January those Geordie property hunters will go to google and type in properties to rent in South Shields, will FIND their way to Rightmove, Zoopla and onthemarket see that 87% of properties are only on #onthemarket and submit their viewing request. Wouldn't you agree?!
"Wouldn't you agree?!" I'd prefer to give a response on 2/1/15, Paul H – at least then it will be a 100% accurate picture and not simply conjecture based upon Small talk… ;o)
It's more likely that the mass who visit their portal of choice looking for a property to buy as they are selling in the area notices that their agent and thus their property isn't on thus prompting a rather angry call. It is the likely they will dis instruct said agent as they weren't told that their property was effectively removed for the internet (it'll be on the new oTM site Yada Yada .. Go ask you vendors if they WANT to list their) and the property ends up on RM and Z anyway, just in a competitors window . I find this shoddy attempt at effectively trying to ring fence a market ludricrous in the internet age. Buyers and sellers are more savvy and they will let you know to your cost…
Have the businesses included in the plan a communication to their current vendors who came with them based on extensive marketing coverage telling them that they are no longer on any portals they a have heard of. Does anyone actually care what your customers want?… Quite possibly the most ridiculous thing I've heard and could quite possibly end a few businesses…. Wake up people , we are in a free market and people will vote quickly with their feet
Danny the public don't care where it is advertised they care about service and sale price achieved – if all the agents drop RM and are all on OTM they will not care! Believe it or not there are still people out there that do not know RM is as large as it is they just want Internet advertising. Only reason I advertise on it is to stop other agents using it against me. If they all come off so will I!
Smile, I can't agree with you there, it that was tyre why did all agents not just push globrix and remove from the rest . The truth of the matter is that my clients pay me a fee and part of that fee is to advertise their property in the locations best suited to sell their house . You say "Yhere are atill people who don't know how big Rightmove is" bit of an oxymoron . The reason it's big is that it's these very people , my customers , who are logging on there in there millions ..
Globrix could have worked if that was the only website to view properties! In my experience vendors don't ask do I advertise on RM just do I advertise online and loads of them mistake RM for your move!!! They are hardly market leaders even with that mistake! You say your clients pay you to advertise their property in locations best suited to sell their house, by that I am guessing you believe that to be RM or Zoopla, do if only corporates and Internet agents are only left on those sites is that the best place to advertise or is now OTM the best place as has majority of listings? – that shows why they all want to come off the big 2 now, the public do not care where they are
Smile , I'm sorry , what do you mean that shows why they all want to come off the big 2 now … That decision has absolutely no thing to do with the consumer . No home seller has ever walked into my shop and said " I don't like the ease of Rightmove and Zoopla , can you guys create your own ? That's why , in my opinion., it's doomed to failure . Just so you know I've been canvassing my client base . I asked specific all would you instruct me if I wasn't on Rightmove and Zoopla . The results showed very clearly that' while a fair proportion would I would lose. Around 30% stock .That equates to far more than the. £5k or so is save in fees
Have you have a vendor come in and say I will only sell with you I'd on RM and Zoopla I have not, how did you word your research if you asked how you put it in your comment then I am not surprised but if you also said that you would be advertised on a new market leading website I believe your answers would be different. I am not saying OTM will be market leading but if agents
Did on mass leave RM and Zoopla it has a very good chance
But its not a free market is it? Its a market for internet coverage lead by a highly profitable entity that abuses its nigh on monopolistic position by taking, taking, taking.
AM will not take agents who are home-based (i.e. work from home rather than a High Street office) simply describing them as "internet only" agents, despite them offering the same level of service as those with a High Street office.
A short-sighted move I believe and one that they will come to regret.
It depends …… If they do not establish themselves as number one portal within a set time period they will regret it and probably then look to change their business plan and evolve. But if they do become number 1 than its inspired as high street agents will by far have the upper hand
Elbee – dead right.
Plus – there are plenty of High Street agents in my area who consistently take lousy pictures, write minimal property details, don't include floorplans with some not even giving room sizes, don't offer advertising options such as RM premium listings (I wonder why?!) or virtual tour videos … in other words they spend the least amount on marketing that they possibly can … And guess what – these are the same guys and gals who ridicule online agents. Laughable.
Bigger initial problem for home based or online agents is that Zoopla and Rightmove are gonna massively increase that type of agencies subs to try and recoup the £20m+ p/a they will lose straight away from otm members. They will also need to recoup the discounts that they have offered OTM members for staying with them and not dropping them.
Oh ok, lets ignore matching clients to a property they may not have enquired about but would love, showing them a property that a seller has indicated he may be flexible on for the right buyer, leaflet dropping a particular road for a buyer you know is anxious to be there, showing someone around a property talking to them about what they don't like about that particular one and showing them one that fits the bill. You know CP, SELLING a property as opposed to acting as a copywriter and just displaying it on a portal(s). What puzzles me is why you are so desperate to be included, is it because as things stand your business seems credible when advertising alongside high street agents perhaps?
RealAgent, you say "What puzzles me is why you (CP) are so desperate to be included, is it because as things stand your business seems credible when advertising alongside high street agents perhaps? …. included in WHAT RealAgent? …. You also say " You know CP, SELLING a property as opposed to acting as a copywriter and just displaying it on a portal(s)." … It appears to me that you might just know who I am … and guess what … from the obvious clues you have inadvertently given – I've got a good idea who you are too. Hint – if you are who I think you are go check RM and Z and find out how quickly we sell property compared to you – and then come back and tell me we are just "copywriters".
CP: Included in OTM obviously, you seem quite desperate that they include you. Ive already given my reason as to why you no doubt are. As far as the rest of your post goes, it's an incredibly mature person that drags an argument to a "who has the bigger one" debate but ok. Firstly, no I doubt you know who I am, for my part I don't know or even care who you are. If you believe that selling property is about how quick something sells then I really think you are attempting to operate in the wrong industry. Professional firms set out a marketing strategy to obtain the BEST price for their clients, invariably that won't mean selling to the first person interested. If it were about that then I'm sure given your lack of local market knowledge and pluck a figure out of the air valuations you are no doubt champion. The point is though, the same statistics you refer to, should tell you something far more important and that is you sell less than 35% of the properties you take on in my area. I sell over 88% of the ones I take on. In other words where I have a business that clients pay, for not just listing on RM and Z, but for a widespread local, national and international marketing in addition to a comprehensive job of selling their property. This would mean not just finding someone interested but taking our clients every step of the way to completion, including the same assistance in finding them another property to move to. B comparison you have a credit card machine and you take a payment and move swiftly to the next person who has been taken in by your "honest guv it works" sales pitch. So no, you're right, in hindsight, I did copywriters a disservice.
easy Chris – "its a bit like a football manager taking off his proven strikers and goalkeeper and replacing them with unproven novices from the academy…" Really? No more than YOU, obviously with a wealth of experience in the sector (amounting to exactly how much, remind me, please…?) coming on here boasting that your company is gonna show us all the way to do our jobs, yet the information you provide the public that is supposed to enable them to make an informed decision as to whether to enter into a business transaction is woefully, ridiculously INCORRECT – and you need "dinosaurs" like ME to put you straight. You are laughable. Know what – YOU are the best advert out for OTM.
We may all disagree about OTM but I have to applaud easyChris for one thing; his ability to post and in an instant bring unity to the site as we all pause for thought and remember, what a shocking embarrassment and a parasite masquerading as being involved in an industry, easyProperty actually is. Thank you Chris, please don't stop posting.
Ahhhhh yes PeeBee but do not forget easychris had over 60000 expressions of interest before launch, I am sure they are all about to appear online soon 😉
🙂 I aim to please , your blah blah you forget to answer the question will your fees reduce as a result of promoting your clients products on a portal that has tiny traffic [ to begin with] simple question…..or will you pocket the savings ??
the only boasting I see is from you peebee. You certainly can't teach manners 🙂
Well… I guess I should be licking my wounds as a result of that lashing from you, easy Chris. Funnily enough, I feel more 'tickled' by your response than wounded. I repeat, your attempts at holding your own are laughable. But… if you no longer want me to point you in the error of your company ways… I'll just leave it up to OFT advise you of your failures to comply with Legislation issues in future. How does THAT grab you? ;o)
I'll answer you Chris. Speaking for myself only, of course, but I have a strong feeling my response will represent the majority of my colleagues as well: No. I will not be reducing my fees to my clients. Just as I did not increase my fees to my clients in response to the phenomenal increases in subscription rates charged by the 2 main portals over the last few years. My clients come to me for results, and they don't question me on where I advertise their properties (which they recognise is only one tiny part of the extensive services we provide to them).
We have followed AM progress closely and conclude that if you are a qualifying agent, welcoming AM to the national portal market makes a great deal of sense. If you do not agree (however please note that I am speaking to qualifying agents ONLY) I would be genuinely interested to hear your views.
At the moment, the biggest fear from those who aren't supporters of OTM is that they won't get enough traffic compared with the big 2, which to be fair , is indisputable at this stage. Here we can see that with the vast majority of properties in the North East they will only be found on OTM. The public will be very quick (educated by local and national advertising and local agents) to have to turn to otm in their area as they will not find much on the 2 main portals (except easypropertys' 2 properties in the entire area). This would then have to become the "norm" in the region. If an agent goes into a val in , say Gateshead, and he is saying "we are on RM and Zoopla, not OTM because it doesn't get enough traffic…….and the OTM agent produces evidence that 85% of property in the region (therefore 85% of internet enquiries) would come from OTM…….I wonder which agent the seller would choose? (assuming both were professional and values same/similar)
Mornin', wilko – another day: another discussion for us to enjoy… ;o) "Here we can see that with the vast majority of properties in the North East they will only be found on OTM." You are slightly premature, I'm afraid. So far – it's all Small talk (sorry – had to be done…). Wonder if the Regional Director of AM would care to confirm here on EYE his firm's withdrawal from "…ALL other portals apart from OnTheMarket" as of 1/1/15 (or sooner…)?
You've got to admit though…on paper, if it works, it would be a major concern for the main 2 portals, who until now , still believe OTM s impact will be minimul……. " another day: another discussion for us to enjoy… ;o) "…..Have to be a half day for me, unfortunately,….I've been selected for a pact afternoon at my sons junior school (where a parent has to go back to school for the afternoon!) I wouldn't mind, but the subjects this afternoon are maths and p.e!!!!…….and the other parent is a fit (as in healthy) 25 year old mum. I'm going to be well and truly shown up!!
wilko – I have to agree with what you say. OTM – on the back of the work of those like your goodself – COULD be the new 'Hovis'. I have always said that. As I have equally stated it could turn out to be mouldy old dough. I hope it doesn't – but it will in my opinion NEVER fully replace one or both of 'the duopoly' (a name originally penned by a long-standing forum contributor, subsequently hijacked for the AM cause…). Unless the entire property world changes, in my opinion it quite simply can't.
Hope your afternoon with the fit lady went well… ;o)
I've heard it all now…
Leave Rightmove and Zoopla on the same day??
It beggars belief that people who have had the nous to set up their own business can allow their RM/Z emotions to even consider such a ludicrous idea never mind actually decide to do it.
The simple fact is I bet Mark Small and his cohorts +AM have done absolutely no market research to determine if Joe Public wants or needs another portal (or what they think of arbitrarily being thrown off RM & Z) but, instead, have been driven by an almost evangelical mission to 'disrupt' and 'punish' the evil RM/Z empire.
EA's who share their opinion of the hated empire have devotedly followed AM and thrown all common business sense out of the window. OTM is not wanted or needed by Joe Public and will actually nail itself to the cross by not providing what Joe Public/buyers really wants from a portal – 100% OF ALL OF THE PROPERTY ON THE MARKET UNDER ONE ROOF.
Talk of OTM 'growing' in popularity starting from a base of c20% of available stock is AM self delusion. You get one chance to make a big impression and those who get drawn into visiting OTM will find the limited choice of property a joke compared to RM who, of course, most AM agents will stick with. If you visit a new restaurant and the menu is limited compared to your regular favourites do you keep going back every week to see if its getting better? Like **** you do. You think 'what a waste of time that was' and you go back to your regular haunts.
That is EXACTLY how Joe Public will react to OTM.
I totally support the principle of AM but the 'only one other portal – no online agents' is a disastrously flawed anti-competitive business plan which I predict will backfire on AM and its agents in a media backlash akin to Gerald Ratner's infamous "prawn sandwich" gaffe.
I also predict non Gold members will be deserting AM in droves before the end of March
And given that online agents have less than 2% of the national market, little better than before all of these so called online firms launched, and have even less of of market in the North East, how is their non inclusion even relevant to a success or otherwise comment about OTM?!
CP I am sceptical of AM as I do not think it will make a great deal of difference in many towns as all that will happen is agents replacing Zoopla for AM, Big deal! But if agents do drop both this is where AM will work, as purchasers will soon find the website through advertising and Google ad words and don't forget agents will be encouraging purchasers to look there as well. Problem is getting the whole town to agree and stick to it, I would stop being a fence sitter and join up today if my competitors would give me that assurance!
"…I would stop being a fence sitter and join up today if my competitors would give me that assurance!" smile please – I am absolutely certain that if any of your competitors gave you an assurance that tomorrow was Wednesday you would immediately check the calendar! ;o)
I agree, OTM have got to hit the floor running with maximum exposure. I sometimes think that we as agents are often cocooned in our own shell and just because we know something we think that Joe Public will be aware of it too. A few years ago I got headhunted by one of the big national corporates to run a new office in our town; they didn't want to supply me with any advertising budget for anything other than a half page in the local paper to advertise stock. I asked why and the response was 'everyone knows who we are'. I replied that while every agent in the town might know who you are, I bet less than 1% of the general public would know. He scoffed at that, I turned the job down and they closed the office again in less than a year having made no impact in the town whatsoever.
OTM may need 4000 or 5000 agents or whatever the figure is this week, but more than that they need the public to be coming over to them on a very large scale from day 1. Ultimately this is just a new website like any other, if they don't spend the money they need to spend in order to compete with two very well established and financed websites, RM and Z, then they are going to be in trouble very quickly. If vendors don't get the response they want/expect because the buying public don't know who OTM are then they'll be in trouble real quick. Any agent who thinks that moving from RM to OTM will automatically get him the same number of leads straight away is deluded
True but with at least 5000 agent sprignett is guaranteed 1.5 million pounds per month so a healthy budget and there will no doubt be silver and bronze members adding to that. Question is how much has been ear marked for wages / profit and how much earmarked for development and advertising
"Question is how much has been ear marked… for development and advertising?" With less than three months to go to OTM-Day, I would say from what we've seen to date, that would be pretty much limited to the cost of "designing" the new logo and bot-all else… but I'm sure The Collective will correct me on that one!
I understand that the marketing budget will be £15m should the 5000 target be achieved PeeBee.
WILL BE and IF are the words of importance, Paul H – and so is that NONE of it is being spent TODAY to educate the public that the tide will no longer come in where they expect it to lap up onto the sands as of 1/1/15…
I posted on this before , using his own figures from the last update they have a sales team of 30, development team of 35, consumer marketing team, customer service etc etc , I worked it about £1.1 million per month with rent ,cost , servers etc leaving £400,000 to try and educate the public that they exist
Also to add about the "15 million advertising budget" I questioned this after a meeting with the AM rep, it's £15 million over 5 years , £3 million a year. I'd imagine that rm and z spend more than that with google alone never mind tv,outdoor , radio, national press etc
Good luck and hat tip to you sir! I wonder if you stopped 100 people in the street in Whitley Bay and asked them where they would look online for their next property if 92.5 of them would say OTM? Seems like a lack of marketing aimed at the people who own/buy the properties?
Nowadays, a good many people start their online property search on Google. They will simply type in "property for sale in Whitley Bay". Up until now, the only credible search results have been RM & Z (any other result would simply be duplicating those properties already available on the other two portals). From January, OTM will start to feature in the results and drive traffic to the site. As it will have many listings which aren't available on the other portals, it won't take long before it builds traction and grows its audience.
No No No, not from January. It takes months to start appearing for results, months and months of indexing from Google. If you're going to claim something at least research it first and make sure it's actually true. 30 or so years in I/T with 25 of them spent writing portals, marketing them and understanding search engines, traffic and how things operate allow me to comment with absolute authority on this matter, not just something a mate who fixes laptops told me down the pub which is where half of this website seems to get it's I.T advice!
"Small said that, on an analysis of yesterday’s listings, the agents in the Whitley Bay area who are quitting Rightmove and Zoopla have 92.5% of market instructions, while in South Shields, the agents have 87% of market share."…..What some seem to miss completely is the number of listings that some of these agents hold, forget the branches for one second and consider how many properties will not be listed on rightmove and Zoopla in those regions.
Very well done so far and good luck.
Great news! Many commentators on PIE constantly barrack OTM supporters for their 'negative' attitude towards the duopoly – but it's also the pervasiveness of online agents that is becoming a real and present threat to the traditional agent. As they won't be allowed on OTM, self-preservation triggers like-minded agents to pool their resources and take joint action. I look forward to other regional groups emulating this positive action 😉
marcH – "…but it's also the pervasiveness of online agents that is becoming a real and present threat to the traditional agent." Oh, come on! You firmly believe that by taking your clients' properties OFF websites that they have had pushed down their throats for years as 'the place to be', when who you now see as the rolling stone that IS gathering moss is going to be able to offer them exactly the coverage that you've all been pushing as a main weapon in your armoury, is a logical way to keep them at bay. This beggars belief. Your clients don't give a fuppeny tuck about YOUR self-preservation. Wake up… smell coffee… and realise reality will you all – YOU ARE POTENTIALLY TAKING THE DOOR OFF IT'S HINGES – not nailing it shut!
its a bit like a football manager taking off his proven strikers and goalkeeper and replacing them with unproven novices from the academy,brave certainly,risky absolutely.I ask the same question that no agent seems to want to answer, will you be charging sellers and landlords the same fees for advertising them on a portal with much ,much less property and pretty much zero traffic to start with,how on earth do you justify that if you do ….and if you do it is a massive ripoff !
adding property to a portal is one thing, building onthemeerkat into a viable brand that people want to visit is entirely another. R and Z are huge trusted brands with huge traffic numbers getting even close will require a depth of funds and marketing experience that I don't think onthemeerkat has. it may provide savings to the operators but where is the consumer benefit v R/Z ,there simply isn't one.
easy Chris, Your football analogy betrays you and your business model. You obviously think of RM & Z as your "star strikers" because, in essence, all you do is publish property details and hope the phone will ring. You are just another layer in the advertising process. A property portal parasite, if you will.
"Traditional" agents don't see RM & Z as their "star strikers". They are merely a cog in the machine which is proper, grown up estate agency. Sticking with your football analogy, it's like a team deciding to move to a different stadium. When Arsenal moved to The Emirates, there was much weeping, wailing and moaning but, in the end, the fans followed the team. In exactly the same way, the public will follow the listings.
If they ever hear about OTM that is…. Before it's to late that is….
Fans actually like their team, consumers could care less about a portal because they will visit it once or twice in their life time, they DONT visit the site every day and generally don't care about where they find their property, be that RM, Z, OTM, Facebook, Twitter, Papers, Shop windows, 50/50, Phone a friend…. I'm sure you get the point.
Once again Chris your response shows a complete lack of understanding of how the marketing of a house works. Portal listing is just one of the ways of advertising a property not the ONLY way. Clients of these agents are still seeing their properties listed with a portal and in fairness one that at its launch will have a good budget for advertising itself. The only reason R/Z have high numbers of visitors is because that is where the property is, you move that, you move the traffic. As far as your rip off comment that would have more credence if as a firm easyP had actually demonstrated what the cost of actually offering a service to clients is rather than just plucking a figure to charge out of the air that sounds CHEAP and then trying to build a business model around how many people you then have to convince that listing on portals and doing it yourself, is a better or sensible way of assisting someone to move.
my football team still stands, that was the point I was making that you are removing some of your best marketing assets as a business and replacing them with unproven ones. r/z wether the industry likes it or not are huge brands with high awareness and sophisticated marketing. onthemeerkat would have to strip a huge hole in the inventory of these sites to make the kind of difference you suggest,tough ask imo.
Not sure what you mean about our pricing, its modelled in detail and our prices to landlord and tenant are clear and transparent.
Easy Chris, care to answer my last question on the subject of distance?…… or you hiding in a hole?
Clearly RealAgent, your response shows a complete lack of understanding of the digital age and the most important person, the client, buyer/seller/renter/landlord.
It takes A LOT of money to have a successful website. A site could have every single agent and property on it, but if people do not know it exists, then it's pointless. It requires a lot of money spent on marketing, millions!!! Question, Why do Coca Cola spend more than any other company in the world on global advertising, even though they are the most recognised branch in the world??? I give AM 12 months tops before the first round of redundancies.
RealAgent:
You don't seem to have an understanding of how the internet works for NEW websites….. It will take upwards of 6 months to even start ranking for searches that get the levels of traffic that OTM needs to compete, simply thinking that "if the stock moves then the traffic will follow" is naive and not at all how things work in the real world. Zoopla knew this and as such bought up lots of little portals to redirect traffic to themselves. Unfortunately for OTM there is not many traffic sources left apart from the Search Engines and those are HEAVILY contested currently and anyone new to the rankings will have to build slowly to break into it. This is a FACT and is not debatable in any way shape or form, this is simply how search engines work.
You shouldn't be questioning this Chris at easyproperty as this will give you (and similar) a free run on the big 2 portals in the North East as you will be the only ones advertising on R and Z in that area and, if they are, as you say, proven strikers of the portals, then you should have no problem doubling your current market instruction share in that region……….to 4!!
"Small is one of some 190 members of a regional group backing OnTheMarket." That would be a "region" encompassing at least three counties – Tyne & Wear, Northumberland and Teesside. Currently, RM lists a total of 483 Agent branches in these three counties… therefore if the North East contingency is based upon BRANCHES, not FIRMS, then 60.6% of the region's outlets will still be knocking 'em out on the portal that THE PUBLIC (you know… those insignificant souls who put the food on our tables…) will most likely turn to first.
Sorry to wee on the firework and all that…
If you haven't heard, it's an on-going campaign of recruitment in the North East but, hey, let's not stop you putting a negative spin on things.
I prefer to call it "being realistic", actually – but, hey – words are just that.
Let's hope this is a successful pilot for the rest of the country. Agents – take back what is YOURS and control YOUR future. Thank goodness for the likes of Mark Small, great to see there are still innovative and strong-minded agents out there.
Some agents in the North East are going to have a ball and make a lot of money for themselves. The public won't leave RM or Z for a long time and it will take a long time to re-educate them. Anybody in the North East looking to start up in agency, January will be the time to do it, they will establish themselves within weeks and do very well. The corporates and internet boys up there must be rubbing their hands together!!!
You seriously believe what you have just written? 'In a poor market, how are 'some agents' going to make a lot of money. Give me strength.
"You seriously believe what you have just written?" I would fire back exactly the same question at you.
Perhaps I will start an agency in that area and be on RM, Zoopla, Primelocation etc. I visualise a queue of clients moving from other agents to mine to advertise! Retirement in the year would be a real possibility! 🙂
Okay… you post this twice – you get the same response twice. An EQUAL "real possibility would be BANKRUPTCY, '1srTimeBuyer', on the basis that judging by your username you have so far been unsuccessful in negotiating so many as ONE house purchase… ;o)
Brilliant work. Agents working to together on a regional level. Their actions will lead to an immediate impact across a large area. Regardsless of what is happening in the rest of the country they have taken control of their area. A powerful example of what could be replicated across the country. Well done.
Great idea and well done for having massive balls !
So it not just a London centric web portal then.
Obviously these guys mean business but I think you will find that there are many areas where a similar situation will occur where nearly every agent has signed up leaving a handful of corporates on one of the portals and everyone else on AM and another portal. In those areas Agents Mutual will already be the go to portal come January.
This is how AM could work, just hope that nobody breaks rank in the enviable tough first 6 months! Well done hope it all works for you