Agents are being asked to boycott Rightmove over a weekend in a mass industry demonstration.
A reader, “smile please”, has posted the call to action on the Arena part of our site.
The demonstration would be “about highlighting the unfair grip Rightmove has on our industry and their bullying tactics of charging more and more”.
The post continues: “I am suggesting that we turn off our feed to Rightmove from Friday 5pm until Monday 9am (date to be set).
“The reason behind this is to demonstrate to the portals that they have nothing if it was not for the support of the estate agents that they take for granted.
“Rightmove make 74p profit in every £1 they receive.
“Whereas we do not mind companies making a profit, this figure is ludicrously high. With fee erosion, transaction numbers down, the rise of online ‘listing agents’ and the monopoly Rightmove have on the industry (in my opinion) many good full service estate agents feel this is unfair.
“I am looking for the support of estate agents to switch their listings to invisible over a weekend.
“This will be the start of a planned sustained demonstration to Rightmove and other ‘service providers’ that as an industry we can come together and that we will not be bullied into paying whatever figure they feel they can squeeze out of us.
“Without our stock that we have invested in to obtain, Rightmove have little to offer the public.
“This is a very ambitious movement. We cannot expect the support of corporate estate agents as they have a stake in Rightmove. This will not work with just a few hundred estate agents signing up.
“This is why I am asking the industry to come together.”
The aim is to get 8,000 offices to join the “invisible weekend” protest.
“smile please” has set up a dedicated email account at invisibleweekend@outlook.com
Agents in support of the “invisible weekend” are also asked to spread the word on social media, using the hashtag #InvisibleWeekend
The full post is here
Comments (66)
Smile Please I totally agree with your sentiment and intentions and appreciate your leadership in trying to effect this much needed change.
In my view RM are clearly operating as a monopoly and discriminating against Independent agents with their high fees compared with their corporate buddies.
I do feel though that this shutdown will not be supported by the corporates who easily swallow their lower RM fees and they will use it to highlight their advantages/brand.
I feel the best approach is to highlight the shambles and discrimination that is inconsistent RM pricing and that if/when shareholders get to hear of the level of customer discontent they demand change. This may bring in the corporates as well – I know of at least one Director of a corporate in Chelsea who ‘cant stand RM’ largely because they charged him for years for products he didn’t have.
There is also the alternative.. OTM? now is the opportunity for them to step up, be bold and start a price war, remove the other portal restriction, continue to build the brand etc.
Are RM operating as a monopoly? Rightmove reported its market share of traffic was 82 percent for the year ending June 2015, up from 77 percent on the preceding year. Its generally excepted that an organisation with more than 25 percent market share operates with monopoly powers.
The CMA also considers profitability. RM profit margin is extraordinary at 74% on Capital Employed …..and 82% market share – what more do you need!
I see where Smile Please would like this to lead to, but the cost in lost business would be too much for the average agent to bear in my opinion.
Making your properties invisible over a weekend will not hurt RM one iota. They might notice a blip, they might not, but you’ll still be paying for your monthly advertising with them so why would they care? its not costing them anything.
They might notice a bigger blip, say a week of not advertising, but they will still be getting paid so not a big worry. How many times has any portal called you to say ‘hey, we noticed you haven’t uploaded any properties this month, do you want your money back?’ How many agents do you think would freeze their feed for a week?
In the meantime your offices will be flooded with calls from angry vendors asking what the heck is going on and the agents not boycotting RM will be making hay.
Would a month do it? – quite possibly but I doubt we’ll ever find out. You would need every agent to be seriously frustrated with RM’s charges and if truth be known, not everyone is.
Now freezing your feeds to all of the portals, that would make people sit up and take notice and think about their charges and silly restrictive clauses. But that won’t happen either.
smile please, in his post above, states
You ask Peebee what will it achieve and my answer is showing the industry can come together in support. You ask who will be the winner my answer is full service estate agency.
Best and worst answers you could give, mon ami.
First of all I am NOT detracting from what you would like to achieve. RM (and Z to a lesserish extent) are no more than badly trained pets who now have their owners cowering in the corner for fear of it taking an even bigger chunk out of the hand that feeds it next time.
I have said on numerous occasions that if we could shut down t’internet it would make our domain (pun intended) a better place – and that I would quite happily walk away from the portals if everyone else did the same.
Thereby lies the problem. It won’t happen. And it is my guess that well over 50% wouldn’t even give it a second’s consideration.
I doubt that more than 10% could muster the ‘nads to ‘commit’ to do it for a whole weekend – and I reckon that the vast majority who started the process wouldn’t last more than an hour without caving.
You only have to read what’s being said above – and these in the majority are I believe fellow Independent Agents who should be rallying right behind you – to realise the scale of the mountain you are suggesting we attempt to conquer.
This very idea was first mooted around 5 years or so ago down the other pub when Ros was the canny Landlady. I’m fairly sure that it was a lad called Chris – a hybrid Agent in Peterborough – that made all the noise about it then. Needless to say, it never took off. Crashed and burned for several seconds on the edge of the runway – the fire extinguished by millions of gallons of apathy.
And all the evidence points to that being exactly the same case today, I’m afraid.
With regard to your answers – firstly
“showing the industry can come together in support”.
Matey – we have a divided industry to start with. OTM could and should have been the cement it needed – instead it has had a very different effect that we see fought and re-fought out here on a daily basis.
OTM is only available to “full service” Agents – those you want behind you. Of those, some 10% won’t be affected by the ‘strike’ – because they don’t use RM in the first place.
So… why not agree to pull off BOTH portals? Show BOTH unruly dogs that you won’t accept their behaviour?
No need to answer – I think we all know why.
Before OTM, there was ‘PropertyLive’ – if, that is, you were a NAEA Member. I think that maybe 1 in 5 bothered with it at all – and that probably 1 in 5 of those bothered to keep it anywhere near up-to-date.
“who will be the winner my answer is full service estate agency.”
Far from it. The perceived ‘winner’ will be every Agent who advertises their property on the portal when others are seen to be doing their vendor clients a mis-service by taking their properties effectively off the market.
That’ll be the way it is dressed up in multitudinous press releases.
You might remember my analogy of ‘Savvy Agent’ from my days as an OTM objector. Same applies – and mark my words ‘Savvy Agent’ will make it work for them.
And remember – ‘Savvy Agent’ in this analogy is coloured purple, orange or a Quirky shade of ********.
I firmly believe you will be playing right into their sweaty claws.
Think laterally.
I liked the last few sentences, so very true and that regrettably is also my concern. They manage to get enough media coverage on the rot they spout as it is. Shame someone in the media doesn’t take up the fight for heel trodden estate agents.
Having said that praise must go to SP for they certainly are passionate, like most of us and want things to move up a gear and is trying to move things forward for all of us.
Come on AM board, move things up a notch for it should be obvious to anyone it is you who must lead the way. Too many need their hand held firmly to stay and others to join in.
Thanks for the ‘Dislike’, whoever.
Here’s a novel idea. Maybe – just maybe – it would be in the industry’s best interests if you actually expressed your reasoning for the ‘Dislike’ and put forward your own opinions.
Otherwise some people might just think you’re a plank.
Now they’ll think you’re a plank who doesn’t ‘get’ the concept of irony.
Smile, at least you are willing to do something to try and get us in a better position. Good on you and I support your idea. All you lot that mock the very notion that we should help ourselves are unbelievable. Someone comes up with an idea to help the industry and all you can do is pour scorn on it. Hes not even getting paid to have or run with the idea!!
And the argument that its not in our clients best interest is woeful. Its 1 weekend. Doctors strike regularly when they want to improve their position and that literally can affect lives. This isn’t going to effect anyones life. Its just a start to make a stand against an organisation that has all of our pants down..
If I was selling a property I would only list with an agent who would put my property on Rightmove.
So being on Z is a waste of time too.
If I was selling a property I would only list with an agent who would put my property on Rightmove.
Why, Mr Gillham?
I need help here.
I am going to presume that Mr Gillham’s name is not offensive in any way, shape or form. Otherwise you would probably have ‘Disliked’ his original post.
How the chuff can you possibly find a reason to ‘Dislike’ the ONE OTHER word in my post?
Smile. I too understand the sentiment but the reality is that no seller will care about any fight with Righmove or ever see a benefit to themselves. They will react badly I feel.
Perhaps another approach would be a co-ordinated campaign to cancel all additional Rightmove products for the month of August. (I say August as some agents will need to give 6 months notice on product agreements) That’s no local homepage, no Featured Properties, no brand plus and no microsite. The site will look very sterile and RM will notice it, but the vendors don’t get drawn into a fight they aren’t really part of.
Just a suggestion……
Again a good idea, but with the corporate bods still live it wont make it look a lot different. Rightmove lose a months additional revenue, that’s it.
But alas, none of this will happen as we are just a bunch of weak, pathetic, sheep who like to moan a talk a good game…..true story
And yes I have a day off, school holidays!
Send a letter along these lines to your clients:
Dear Mr Vendor,
as you know we market your property widely to reach as many potential buyers as possible. This includes but is not limited to the local press, our buyers register, our office, website and property portals.
One of these portals is Rightmove. Rightmove provides us with potential buyer leads as do all the other advertising mediums. However, Rightmove charges us more than all the other means of advertising put together.
And they increase their charges by at least 10% every year. This allows them a profit of over 70% on turnover, the largest profit on turnover of any FTSE traded company. But they dont stop there.
Their intention is to continue to increase this profit however they can. A knock on effect of this policy effectively is putting a barrier to competition in the estate agency industry. A new agent wanting to compete within the market has been quoted £1800 per month to advertise their properties.
This has meant they are unable to enter and provide customers with more choice. Some of the large corporate agents own shares in Rightmove. This suits them – Less competition.
It will enable them to tighten their stranglehold on local markets, as Rightmove are doing in the world of internet property advertising. It will mean less competition as smaller firms are priced out. It has to lead to higher fees in the industry, and less choice. This is of course bad for home sellers and has to be bad for our/my industry.
In order to show that we care about the future of our industry and the choice consumers should have we will be removing some properties for a period of 48 hours over the weekend of _______.
We are not taking this decision lightly, and expect a large number of agents to do the same. We will of course continue to recieve leads from all other sources and would expect people to search other sites, as most already do if they find that there are less properties on Rightmve over the weekend.
This is a decision the directors have taken as we feel it is in the best interests of our industry and ultimately our clients (be that now or in the future). I would welcome a chat with you if you have any reservations about this action we are taking, please contact me direct on: Regards
Wouldn’t it be nice if it said “6,000 agents from all over the UK had taken the decision to stop advertising on RM as it is not longer sustainable or in your best interest, but fear not for the public will have full access to XY web site etc etc etc”.
Dear Mr Estate Agent,
I’ve had no viewings for a month and you are saying you are taking my property off Rightmove??
I hereby give you the required 28 days notice to cancel my agreement.
Regards,
Mr Disgruntled.
Dear Mr Disgruntled,
That is precisely why we are moving from RM, after a month they didn’t produce any leads and many homeowners using their service still haven’t been sold after a year with them. We are getting better quality leads from XY and you can’t be any worse off!
No viewings for a month Harree? if I had a conversation like that in this market I must be in the wrong job.
If this were to happen it could be the biggest own goal in the history of estate agency.
I can just see some of the press and media headlines;
Greedy Estate Agents take YOUR property OFF the market!
Estate Agents PUNISH YOU in their greedy war!
Estate Agents deliberately NOT SELLING your property!
It doesn’t matter whether you agree with these headlines or not – this could be like Ratners’ prawn sandwich moment for our industry.
The idea is ludicrous and for once I totally agree with PeeBee …
Exactly WHO would this benefit?
If anyone thinks it is estate agents they need to think very, very, deeply again.
Much as it pains me to say this Harree. I agree with you.
You are missing the point. Agents have at last come to their senses and realised their future is in jeopardy. It is like pulling teeth but slowly realisation is setting in that RM cannot be allowed to get away with how they treat their paying customers and they are more today jeopardising their future existence. It is only ever going to happen if they rise up as one and do something together but permanently.
Ah, Harree. There you are…
I didn’t get a chance to reply to your rather antagonistic comments last week, as I had work to do. However, rest assured, I am neither a “coward” nor a “little boy” and, if you’re really lucky, you will find out both, simultaneously.
Now, stop getting all agitated over the “Zoopla Rep” label you have quite clearly earned for yourself. Whether you like it or not, it’s stuck and quite clearly gets under your skin, so it’s only natural people keep levelling it at you. It might even be regarded as “bants” by some of our younger readers.
I would suggest sucking it up and not over reacting, before you bite off more than you can chew.
Now, haven’t you got some disillusioned OTM members to chase up, I’ve heard there are still a couple considering going back to Zoopla. That was until they saw the Countrywide announcement and realised the writing is starting to appear on the wall…
Ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha……oh it hurts…….. ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha. He’s not a AM member by any chance is he!!!! Ha ha ha ha.
What an absolutely ridiculous suggestion, this guy needs to remember who pays his bills. If he wasn’t on RM how many of his clients would have instructed him in the first place. Very few I would suspect!
Nope not an AM member because they have not looked to do something along these lines so feel what is the point.
You are right i probably would not have any stock if i was not on RM. But what has RM got if they do not have agents stock?
And that’s the point Jmeapps01 – Who pays RM bills? – Agents have other alternatives but are too afraid to use them. If this could demonstrate agents can work together its as the techies put it a “game changer” or a “Disrupter”
Hit the nail on the head ….. “Agents have other alternatives but are too afraid to use them”.
And this is the point.
6000 members that have not got direction despite a year on. I am not saying i am a leader, but just looking to point them in the direction of what can be achieved. Otherwise what is the point of it?
And this is where the likes of Trev’ jump in with anti-competiveness, not in the public interest and BPR’s. I know that AM have to be seen to be very careful with BPR’s, they came under a lot of flack over the one other portal rule from the anti-brigade which frankly has always been a red herring. It is therefore for the agents to take the stance not AM board.
Yes to all of the above
And never forget you estate agents have a choice to where you spend your money.
RM, Z, OTM, local rag, F/S Boards, Leaflets, PR agency, Telesales, networking events, etc,etc.
RM is just one of many choices.
Perhaps smileplease you could try to heard a few less cats and just start with your neck of the woods, then if it works then try widening your horizon.
Starting with the whole of the UK is a little ambitious ! And tomorrow the world ?
Never been one to do things buy halves 😉
Already emails in this morning, I would hope that if enough interest is shown we could have an agent in every town that would look to take on the baton.
Its not about me, its about our industry. The biggest thing any provider worries about is collective bargaining.
This really is down to the industry if they want it, I am not being paid 500k to do this, i am not employing my friends, i am not looking to replace something i have lost (other than control).
If the industry wants to show support and that we can come together and effect change, why not?
If however as i and many fear that we are only looking out for our own interests and accept this is part of the industry then it wont work ….. But what would that say about other memberships people have joined and one day hope to achieve this?
This really highlights the dilemma for agents. They have been stuffed by the monopoly long before that other web portal came upon the scene. Some say they became even stronger when that other portal started. So what? The reality is that RM is a monopoly is here no matter who you want to blame on … actually its the agents themselves that created the beast that now robs them and helps to support third parties, who are going all out to put high street agents out of business (so they wish and keep telling the public will happen).
The idea of a weekend boycott has its merits in a demonstration to RM but would that work? I think not, for who are you demonstrating to? RM already know we hate them and they keep laughing in your face because of the monopoly and the fragmentation of agents has never been able to come together as one voice in decades and they know this and play on it.
The public have a short memory and a weekend isn’t likely to be seen by any other than those only looking that weekend and the vendors who take the hump who will only see it as your problem with RM and not there problem with you advertising their property. All agents know vendors want blood when it comes to advertising and this could back fire.
The only solution to the problem is not a weekend boycott. If you are going to do it, do it permanently. Communicate to ALL your customers what you are doing and why. One or two agents here and there will make no impact but as a national group it will have a devastating impact on any web portal ever thinking again they can get away with running our business or more importantly jeopardising OUR BUSINESS.
And that is the dilemma getting everyone to agree, all at the same time and when?
Do I have more chance of winning the lottery!
Hypothetically Woodentop
A said band of circa 6000 members saw this, decided to get involved. Maybe that could be the start of agents showing they can work together and look to one day in the near future remove listings for good……..
I and many others have not joined this group as they have not talked about moving away from RM so we doubt it will ever happen. Is this not a prime time to test the members and what they can achieve? After all they would be looking to do it at some point and this may very well see a leap in membership figures …..
SP: I said from the very beginning of that other portals launch, that agents should drop all other portals and it didn’t get a very good review from many, particularly with those with alternative motives to prevent it and harass that other portal over the last 12 months. The public will follow the agents but one or two agents isn’t going to have an impact. It is what should have happened and just about every independent agent today would agree and is what is now being called for. Even you are saying that if everyone would jump you would join?
That is the dilemma, everyone needs to agree. If not ,agents will continue to be abused by some portal or another. Not having the gift of hindsight, but been around long enough to see changes could and do happen and high street agents need to get it into their heads the tide could be about to turn, not in their favour in the long term.
Are you on OTM? Have you dropped RM? If the answer to the first question is yes and the answer to the second question, no, then you are all bluff and bluster and your opinion is worthless!!!!!!!!!!!!!! If you believe you only need OTM, then just be on OTM. If you have dropped all other portals and are just on OTM, well done!!! I will and do applaud you.
I thank you for the applaud, not once but twice. The dirty tricks by my fellow agents required a second rethink.
‘The only solution to the problem is not a weekend boycott. If you are going to do it, do it permanently.’
Now that I am up for
Most agents want to give RM a ****** nose for the way they treat us as customers but, whilst I would love to support this idea, I fear it is doomed to failure for the reasons already given above.
Careful now Smile. You’ll have ‘the message’ all over you with that sort of sensible talk. You are clearly in the pay of OTM, a hater of RM, a loather of Z, a sucker-up to the editor of PIE – whose sole purpose in life is to push out pro OTM propoganda, a filthy-capitalist agent growing rich on the back of exploited property vendors etc etc etc.
Oh, sorry, I appear to have momentarily been infected with the twaddle that he continually spouts.
A lot of negativity already, always was going to be a hard to get a group of agents together, its like herding cats.
I was struck by the story last week, an agent needs to sell two properties a month just to pay a single portals fees. On top of office, staff, rates etc is that fair?
You ask Peebee what will it achieve and my answer is showing the industry can come together in support. You ask who will be the winner my answer is full service estate agency.
Imagine a collective group of X thousand estate agents and the negotiating power and buyer power they have. Be it portals, stationary lease cars or any other bill you face.
Others talk about the misuse of date, one or two individuals may well raise the issue but if you had thousands asking the same question asking looking to shape where our data is going and for what purpose it would have to be listened to and policy changed.
Do you know how little some corporates pay for the above compared to you? – At the last count up the largest only had about 1300 branches.
Providers know they have the upper hand as they have something the majority want. They know it does not matter if a handful leave as others will replace. They also know agents cannot work together which is why they do not worry.
If you have a team of x thousand agents looking to move on a number of issues that effect many of them then the providers will worry, then they will listen, then they will change.
If agents feel they do not want to get involved thats their choice, but i would hope to stop seeing agents moaning about costs.
If this fall flat on its face before even starting i am not going to look to continue to push it. But if you are a full service agent worried about the industry why not give it ago, think of the doors it could open …..
It’s a great idea smile but you are asking for the support of estate agents across the country to potentially save themselves some money.
All estate agents are absolutely loaded and have no reason to save any money.
Much as I will happily support you on that weekend, you are flogging a dead horse with 99% of them
The answer 6 years ago (when others were paying over £500 per month), is that i was paying £125 per month as a franchisee of a large corporate to have unlimitied for sale properties on Rightmove.
smile please
One question if I may
What will this achieve and who will be the winner(s)?
Okay… I guess that’s TWO questions.
Smileplease- OK I understand your frustration RM isn’t cheap, whereas Z & OTM are.
I use RM
I wish I didn’t have to and save some dollar.
I think it is a short sighted approach to managing RM.
That said RM if you are reading this, take note whilst you have the upper hand now it wont last so if you want another 20 years at the top you’d better start looking after your clients. A little loyalty from you now could well lead the way to another successful score (20 years)
its a great idea , unfortunately I think the feed only refreshes the content and I’m sure they would just run with the data they already have and no one would notice
To be honest – if an agent optimised a chunk of their portal spend on long tail Google search, then showed other agents local listings they’d become a mini local portal and rise up with the big portals in local google search. At that point, would agents need portals.
Portals without stock would be dead in the water. Agents with other agents stock would become mini local portals. All very do-able via idx (MLS) next gen UK tech.
I’m in. If we can actually work together for just one weekend it could possibly go down in history, that we worked together.
Not a new idea . It’s been muted before in around 2012 and died a death . This is a service industry and we serve our clients , it’s their properties you ask me to make disappear . What’s the advantage of doing this for my client ? I suggest if you don’t like the pricing ….come off entirely
We found them too expensive – So we did 😉
Morning Danny, have you mentioned those tax evading Landlords of yours to your money laundering officer yet? You do know you can be found guilty of covering up the crime of tax evasion for the next 20 years.
excuse the link but this might be useful http://www.hmrc.gov.uk/manuals/chmanual/CH56100.htm
Thanks Robert, I’ll concentrate on my business , you worry about rummage4 …..
You condoning and being an accessory to tax evasion has nothing to do with my project. You are breaking the law by failing to comply with the money laundering act. Displaying such a cavalier attitude to legislation the rest of us abide by really puts all of your comments into very sharp focus.
If you are daft enough to post you are breaking the law don’t be surprised if people take exception to it. Rogue Landlords and rogue agents is something our industry could do without.
Paragraph 18 Schedule 23 Finance Act 2011
Rent and other payments arising from land
18(1)Each of the following is a relevant data-holder—
(a)a lessee (or successor in title of a lessee),
(b)an occupier of land,
(c)a person having the use of land, and
(d)a person who, as agent, manages land or is in receipt of rent or other payments arising from land.
(2)The reference to a person who manages land includes a person who markets property to potential tenants, searches for tenants or provides similar services.
I dont recall ever posting that someone is breaking the law, I do remember posting that various landlords have houses in childrens and spouses names….not sure thats illegal …
Your landlords not paying tax on income received is breaking the law, you are aiding and abetting them by failing to report, as is your duty as their agent, the matter to your money laundering officer.
Just so you are clear what you put;
danny
February 12, 2016 at 9:01 am
A fair few of my landlords have openly admitted to not paying tax on their income . One recently said if he was asked for back arrears he would offer them 3% as a full and final.
A bit much for a public forum Mr May.
If you have never broken the law in your life, as you were.
If you have, pipe down
You think discussing an Agent’s legal and moral obligation is a bit heavy for an industry forum? Your post says a lot about you Gump.
Didn’t some agents in Holland or somewhere do this and the portal ending up suing them, or something along those lines?
Agents make a protest and in response RM sues their own clients. Not in a million years Mr Mealham.
Agency Insider. Mr Mealham (moi) didn’t make the above comment.
It was Trevor Gillham.
If I had of commented, it would be to say, how could this benefit consumers who need to sell. And a boycott would part conflict an agents client duty to act in best interest.
Closing the market stall for the rise in price of cheese, seems of no benefit to the consumers.
Oops. Sincere, grovelling and abject apologies Mr M. Fancy getting my Trevors in a twist at this time of the morning.
However, since you appear to be taking a similar line to Mr G I must upbraid you as well and say ‘You know what. Sometimes it’s not always about the consumer’.
@AgencyInsider.
Don’t get me wrong – Im all for good agents. …… I put way more value on an agent who can network locally to pull offers in over main portals.
on Saturday I pitched for an agent on an irregular property where fees are 1% norm. The pitch went well and offering sub agents as a premium package as more important to portals, i easily achieved 1.5% comm.
Consumers are important, but they are best served by good agents able to provide best local service. portals only make up a small part of that considering local people moving will contact local agents and see FS boards up.