In a dark day for OnTheMarket, a significant number of its agents, running into the hundreds, yesterday are said to have expressed interest in how to extricate themselves from membership.
Iain White told EYE that he had received a large number of emails from separate business owners in the course of the day wanting to come away from OTM.
White, an ex-director of Romans and who is now a non-executive director of some 30 agency businesses, last night said: “Three of my clients felt at a commercial disadvantage through their membership of OnTheMarket.
“All three had given notice, stopped their feeds and stopped making payments. They received legal letters.
“They were objecting to this, and would have taken legal action. My advice to them was, ‘Don’t do this on your own’ and from this, came the story.
“The reasons for that are that first, you can save costs by joined-up action, and second, one individual legal action that goes wrong can damage someone else’s.
“It has come to light today that some agents who have gone back to Zoopla have received injunctions or threats of injunction.”
White said that the group has sought advice from three barristers, each of whom independently confirmed that agents who signed up to OTM prior to or very shortly after launch have very strong grounds for action based on the broken promise that they would always be paying at the lowest rate offered by OTM.
White said he has in his hands a plethora of contracts clearly offering different rates which the barristers believe means any of the early Gold or Silver contracts signed was misrepresented.
One of these barristers will, it is likely, be leading the group action.
White said that having started off with the interests of just three agents, things rapidly snowballed when the claims came out yesterday morning on Estate Agent Today.
Yesterday, said White, he not only received a large number of emails, but says a significant fighting fund was pledged.
White said: “I think the time for negotiation to resolve the issues has now passed, because of the sheer volume of those agents prepared to put their heads above the parapet.
“I have been genuinely taken aback by the strength of the sentiments made clear in many of the emails I have received.
“I have also never known a service-led organisation which is suing its own clients survive
Last night an OTM spokesperson said: “It is standard practice for any company to seek outstanding payments from customers when they are in arrears.
“We work to ensure that everyone in contract with us meets their obligations for the benefit of all members of Agents’ Mutual.”
Comments (98)
Sorry i may have missed it in the massive amounts of comments above.
The attached contract showing the £50 per branch, it does not specify a timescale and the fee sheet is missing, is this £50 forever or for a set period I.E. until they reach 7,500 members?
Hi smile please.
Looking at the “Contract” it states a £50pcm fee payable from 26 January 2016 – no fee payable beforehand.
It then goes on to state that once the 7500-branch target is reached – this figure being made up of both Contracted Member branches AND Letter of Intent branches – that they will be invited to enter into a binding Contract under the ‘Standard’ or ‘Fixed 2020’ Membership tariffs.
The paperwork shown is far from complete, of course – so I can only assume that the rates for those two Membership levels are in line with, or in excess of, those of current Members.
I’m sure ‘others’ will have a different slant – looking forward already to reading it.
I love a good piece of fiction… or should that read friction! ;o)
“I have also never known a service-led organisation which is suing its own clients survive”
Erm… REALLY, Mr White?
I cannot think of a single Estate Agency I know which has never had to resort to at least the threat of Legal action to recover costs, previously agreed under signed Contract (and many on ‘unsigned’) at one point in their history.
Mores to the point – I don’t know of a single one of them that is no longer in business for that reason.
******** content needs to be more robust, I would suggest. EYE readers are a hard bunch.
quote; “I have also never known a service-led organisation which is suing its own clients survive’ Not sure I agree with this; there are no doubt plenty of businesses that have to sue to get invoices paid for whatever reason, I myself being one on a few occasions, and I’m still here ;).
And if we are going down that road it is surely rare that a company that mistreats and abuses the loyalty of its clients will surely suffer longevity issues? Or are estate agents so uniquely dog eat dog that they would rather in fight and overpay? Ok then…..
Would it be more productive to suggest a number of agents who have joined Agents Mutual are dissatisfied with OTM
With just short of 4 years still to run it seems sensible to assess what is and isn’t working and address those points.
I can see a role for Iain heading up a healthy and opposing balance committee of agents to help review and if necessary adjust the future but I can’t see what looks like is shaping up into a civil war will benefit estate agents.
Agents Mutual is a good thing and should not suffer because of OTM. OTM is a service product, it is right for some, not right for others. Removing the pot stirring emotion of people already proven wrong; it saw out 3 months, saw out 6, 9 and 12 months despite confident, vocal predictions it wouldn’t, the product has to be reviewed and allowed to evolve. It is better to do that than allow all of the good to be lost because it is not performing exactly to expectations.
Iain would be good for the role if he maintains the independence such a role demands.
Robert – you state
“Iain would be good for the role if he maintains the independence such a role demands.”
Am I right in however suggesting that in order for Mr White to maintain “independence”, he first needs to demonstrate that he is, in fact, independent and there is and will be no external influence to his actions past, present or future?
Over to Mr White, I guess…
Being independent of influence isn’t something most people need to be mindful of and it certainly looks like this is an evolving role for Iain so an independent past is not something that can be pulled out of a hat.
The interesting thing is whether Iain appears all woaded up and ready for battle or takes times to consider the responsibility that has been laid at his door.
I can well imagine a few of the vocal ‘anti from the outset’ crew being disappointed if Iain isn’t prepared to take a bullet on their behalf.
define independent
3 agents out of 6,000 isn’t even a blot on the landscape. One does wonder what your motives are and very suspect about your independence to take the case on.
I don’t need to define independent, but I am happy to explain what I mean. Fighting the dissatisfaction with OTM performance will only be done by addressing the reasons it doesn’t deliver to expectation. The reason is OTM, in the hands of the field reps, became a cure for everything: It was going to tame the Duopoly, rid the world of passive intermediary charlatans and provide the lat/long for the pot of gold at the end of the rainbow.
These are issues involving the first release of a service product, it is a product that works for some and not for others, the aim should not to get anyone out of the contract for the product but to make the product deliver.
There are people who want the project to fail, some have valid reasons, some have commercial reasons, some people are just malcontents and a bit thick, un- picking what is a massive stag rut of entrepreneurial prowess needs to be done carefully and without influence from any of the vested and vocal interests.
Agents Mutual needs to succeed for the industry, OTM needs to change and settle down. There are bits AM needs to tackle so perhaps the way forward is to establish what can be achieved by the affinity group of agents and what can be done by their product.
COMMENT OF THE YEAR – end of.
It seems from yesterday story on EAT over this subject the agents were those that seem to think that if they sat back and did nothing OTM was the holy grail of producing leads.
OTM is no different to any other web portal, it is a marketing outlet which will only work with the support of the agents input to promote it. That is why in some areas it is going strong and other areas it is not. Just like Z are extremely poor in many parts of the country. In my town we have an agent who is OTM but from day one has only promoted RM which is all over their office inside and out. The public will follow the lead of the agent, if agents continue to promote one web portal in favour of another …. were do you expect the public to go! OTM are a catch up and done extremely better than RM or Z ever did when they started out.
If you want OTM to succeed agents need to support it and get off any other web portal …. you are likely to be in self destruct mode otherwise?
And remember this ….. why did OTM come about? It was to try and break the monopoly by RM & Z. Both these two organisations are not interested in anything but making money and are the ones that will eventually put you out of business if Purple Bricks and the like get their way.
It would be far better and believable if someone would come up with the proof that £50 is being offered, its been shouted around for so long now, but no evidence ……. strange as the press would have a field day if it was true. My evidence is to the contrary and can confirm that it was being spouted by the Zoopla reps to get me to go back to them.
I think OTM’s first issue was in presenting itself as a threat to Zoopla and its relentless pursue of being No2, aiming to be a threat on the least threatening of the two market leaders.
Lets face it, the whole thing that they where ‘On The Market’ for was because of the outrageous prices being charged by ZPG and RM. What they should have been concentrating on is the big one, the one that charges 3x more than any other RM.
RIP, OTM
It’s not surprising the number of firms and individuals that do not want OTM to work.
Any business owner with the good sense to try and look forward a few years would support this last drive to topple Z & RM.
I am sick of the ever increasing prices and poor service offered by the Z & RM and I certainly want to ensure that we have a portal owned and run by like-minded people.
One story written by an individual with motives does not change my opinion on what is good for our business.
In relation to a ‘loss’ in business, we have seen the complete opposite and an increase in our business and quality enquiries – but I do not put this in any part down to the property portals, but to my staff driving the business.
I still cannot believe that any Estate Agency business owner does not want this to succeed. For those not on OTM – get off your ar** and take some positive action to help your future business !
Who says they don’t want it to work?
What at is definite is they want their own business to work, for many that does not seem to be best served by OTM and only one other portal.
In response to the Open Question posed by Peebee a few days ago:
I hate to say it but now do you believe me? You’ve enjoyed ridiculing me for stating what has finally been presented here as undeniable fact and I have let you for you had obviously been deceived, but for once your own absence here is notable.
I, like the others you mentioned, read PIE daily, and it’s even handedness everywhere but on this topic riles me and the others into commenting.
I applaud PIE for finally approaching the subject.
There are no winners here – deceit doesn’t taste nice, I have only ever tried to present the truth without any perceivable bias. Propaganda deserves to have it’s own bubble burst. And I just heard a big bang.
The truth always outs.
“…but for once your own absence here is notable.”
Read again, sunshine – posted nine minutes before you predictably showed up.
You must have got your call-up message a bit late this morning. Even EHenderson beat you to it – and she’s been Missing Presumed Defeated for the past few months.
You are letting your side down, Digital Expert.
And your response is…?
A criticism for doing exactly as you do by commenting on a news piece. Odd.
You post more frequently, and often much earlier than I – so what is your learned response on the actual news content?
“And your response is… on the actual news content?”
I see:
a lot of words with no solid substance.
300 alleged emails
the words “White“, “said” and “told” used in every possible permutation
and the deafening silence that is – in round, approximate numbers – NOT ONE OTM Agent making a song and dance here on EYE in the way that Mr White and EAT would have people think.
That’s my response. Don’t choke on it, please.
I think the relative silence from the agents not using OTM tells a story. Especially in Central London the volume of enquires through Zoopla are eye popping vs OTM. So ironically, OTM biggest fans are those not using it. It is a little bit like Foxtons. We all cannot stand them but we acquire a quiet pleasure in finding out a vendor/landlord has had them in because we know that that the client will consider paying a full fee for the right service.
Loving the way OTM looks after it’s clients, where do I sign ?
Just a small point
Has anyone had a look at Mr White’s LinkedIn page.
His stated list of companies he is a “Consultant” to throws up the biggest cry of feigned surprise since the phrase ‘No 5h!t, Sherlock’ was first uttered.
A personal slur does not a counter argument make.
Personal slur? I think not.
Merely an observation.
One wonders what Digital Expert’s LinkedIn page would throw up.
If only you knew.
Property Pundit – when you say
“One wonders what Digital Expert’s LinkedIn page would throw up.”
can I just clarify by “throw up”, do you mean to suggest phrases and terminology like:
‘Barf’?
‘Spew’?
‘Upchuck’?
‘Puke’?
or what about that really funny one – ‘Pavement PiZZa’?
Of course, I am sure that the letter ‘Z’ – or anything associated with that letter for that matter – would be the last thing you would see on his ‘LinkedIn page…
…but – I have been wrong before, and no doubt will be again.
Someday. Maybe even today. Who knows.
Spot on there PeeBee.
Careful, Property Pundit – it’s a dangerous line you’re walking to be seen to agree with me.
You have been warned…
;o)
Your point is?
You have a commercial interest with that particular company – a company whose owner has publicly made the failure of Agents Mutual his personal mission.
In my opinion this compromises your position as it certainly makes me question your agenda.
And I’m entitled to an opinion – aren’t I?
And it now turns out that IT IS ONLY 3 AGENTS.
You are indeed entitled to your opinion, I can’t recall suggesting you are not, do you see words that are not there?
I was asking a genuine question as I was not able to see any relevance in your comment. Having looked at all your comments by way of research I now have an opinion of you and I am sat here now with a group of estate agents having a great laugh at your expense.
thanks been a busy few days but the entertainment you have provided is just brilliant.
“I am sat here now with a group of estate agents having a great laugh at your expense.”
I am delighted that you have found something to amuse yourself with – not to mention your three new bezzies we have read about in the neatly moderated story above.
I never considered myself to be the equivalent of a ‘shiny thing’ – but if I take your mind off the real issues that should be worrying the bejesus out of you all then I have achieved something at least.
Maybe you should take your new-found shared humour to the next level – I would heartily recommend you build yourselves a campfire, boil up some beans and brew up a four-man f@rt-fest in best Blazing Saddles style.
Then – you can report on it here.
I, for one, can’t wait.
OTM members need to stick at it, Rome wasn’t built in a day and you have to expect it to take time to get the leads coming in etc., which I am starting to see at my office, not in high numbers yet but they are growing. In our area the majority of agents went with OTM and dropped Zoopla and it certainly has not affected our business.
I joined early on and subsequently lost 7% market share over the course of 10 months. When I signed up I was told that 5/6 of the larger agents had signed, the reality was just 3 of us and I owned 2 of those brands. Now back on zoopla we have quickly recovered our lost market share. I’d be happy to support OTM the problem is they don’t support us in return! I had numerous conversations with OTM and got the basic reply of suck it up you’re in contract. I’ll be joining this action group to save my business.
I think you should be looking elsewhere if you need to join an action group to save your business?!
I wonder how all those agents who never used Zoopla or in a lot of cases RM before OTM came along survived or made a living, weird?
It’s like a local agent that valued a friends house recently (I told them to get 3 or 4 and not rely purely on my advice) and all they could say about 2 of the other agents, was that they cut down their choice of reaching everyone by not being on Zoopla!
What a weak way to try and win the business. What about what you can do, what you have done, not what everyone else is doing?
If RM is number you don’t need to be on number 2? The only reason to be on number 2 is to turn it into number 1.
By the way, that agent valued the property £100k less than the other 3 and me.
I’d love to know when they don’t get the instruction what they put it down to, because they can’t blame not being on Zoopla, like so many other people do, who are unable to look closer to home for the truth.
It amazes me that so many agents don’t have the gumption or drive to change the course of events. Your industry is being attacked from all corners and the media are loving it, taking swipes wherever they can, because they would love to see the demise of the devil that is an EA.
But you all keep feeding the beast that is RM, while they provide a voice and a platform for the on-liners, who will gain traction and erode your already fragile fees and your market share. You will lower your margins lower, because that is what everyone is doing and its the only way to deal with it right?
There will be a very different playing field in the future, one where only the strong will survive and those that don’t fear change.
The case for OTM was simple, get to critical mass, become number 2 and then go after RM. The focus should never have been on RM or what they are doing during this process.
They were number 1 already, it doesn’t matter that they are still number 1 or an even stronger number 1, what is a stronger number 1 anyway, so why people get all hot under the collar about this, god only knows.
Your stance against Zoopla is very interesting I’m sure – but what about OTM?
Agents had their chance to make a stand against RM, and they bottled it by dropping a competitor and now the main target is much, much stronger.
Again, I liken this to saving money on utility bills by leaving the heating on overnight and opening the windows.
If you don’t like RM, drop it. But don’t pretend that cancelling/not using Zoopla will make one tiny bit of difference to them – in face, RM would actively encourage it. It’s pretty easy to see that.
What about OTM DE?
I want it to survive and I believe in a portal owned and controlled by agents, simple really.
I don’t need OTM to survive for my business to survive though, my motivations and views are not clouded and I have no hidden agenda.
Agents never had their chance, because OTM had a clear strategy, that was spelled out to everyone from the start.
Number 2 portal was aim. It would be naïve of anyone to think that a new entrant to the portal arena could walk in day one and get a nation of estate agents to stop using the number 1 portal let alone both, hence the strategy.
They have achieved much, much more than the doubters and are still here and I haven’t heard about any businesses closing down because they supported it. As I mentioned before, there are no excuses, so don’t go looking for them, but many still do.
Explain the difference it makes to RM then DE?
They are no 1, are perceived as number one and continue to be the darling of the financial markets due to there extraordinary profit margins. They are the publics go to portal when it comes to looking / browsing for property.
They continue to milk the cow that created them and sustains their very existence. What else has changed?
That statement of FACT above has no baring on the strategy that OTM has, which is to become the number 2 portal. RM making more money day by day has no baring on that strategy.
The only thing that can make or break the strategy is the agents themselves. Much as they created RM and Zoopla, they can take their power away, much the same as they can make or break OTM.
So please don’t pretend that anything else, other than the agents themselves, will make a difference in this situation.
As I said repeatedly to OTM, they concentrated on agent numbers over public awareness to the severe determent of any launch impact. The simple fact is that the public have not heard of them. No pre-launch or teaser marketing campaign…nothing. In addition, whatever marketing was done has been done at the agent’s expense! Totally ludicrous.
With so many willing to commit they could have had a six month teaser campaign with every member agent pushing the new website on every email footer, letter head, press ad, company car, leaflet, flag board and office window…to have the opportunity for all that marketing at their disposal and do nothing, not even a window sticker, was unforgivable in my view. As a result, I did not join OTM to protect my business. Initially, bigger firms have, and to a certain extent, continue to weather the storm. How long that can continue will be interesting.
‘As a result, I did not join OTM to protect my business.’ So you’re not on rightmove then?
Iain White is just trying to win more clients to support his own business so take it with a pinch of salt. Might be a smart time for otm to rethink their terms and strategy though. They might fall into the same trap of arrogance that has led rightmove to be unpopular with its agency customers. Time for onthemarket to offer us all an even better deal to stick with them perhaps?
Outspoken in more clients?
Just a quick question – I think a valid one
does this gentleman hold shares in the alternative portals and if so how many?
Agents built rightmove and zoopla why not build OTM? It took several years for Z and RM to become overnight successes
just goes to show how fickle the agency world is, if they are dropping OTM already I think personally it is very short sighted
It also goes to show how difficult it is to gain critical mass when confronted with unfair competition and perhaps OTM should have been more transparent and stuck to their original price points
Zoopla have the bedside manner of Harold Shipman, OTM needs to go down a different path or risk losing everything
Rightmove was the first consolidated success in the Portal sphere alongside many, many also rans. Zoopla spent untold £millions into making it a consumer destination and a credible alternative to RM before it gained serious traction – and agents then chose to use it. Agents didn’t build either of these websites. Technology demanded it in the first instance, and agents chose to use Z in conjunction to gain access to data savvy vendors & buyers.
I can’t think of many industries where suppliers of data & leads are so despised – remember the newspaper only days where the overall cost was much more than the dual costing of both leading portals for a tiny fraction of the coverage and response?
A bit like calling postwar Britain the ‘good ol’ days’. It was a brown and dreary place.
“A bit like calling postwar Britain the ‘good ol’ days’. It was a brown and dreary place.”
A “brown and dreary place” where like-minded people mucked together to build a new future, to be exact.
And you ‘Dislike’/disagree with the above comment WHY, precisely?
To whom it may concern…
Bad news – this ‘Disliking’ for the chuff of it is achieving nothing.
You look a complete plank – albeit an anonymous one – devoid of the ability to debate.
If that’s your planned result then congratulations – you have achieved your target with bells and whistles attached for good measure.
If the aim is anything other than appearing to be detrimental to the good of the industry and its’ customers – then you continue to fail spectacularly with every inane press of the mousepad.
* Note to EYE – will someone please make this site available to over 18’s.
Oh – and for clarification – it’s IQ I’m referring to.
Who?
Me?
J1
That depends on whether or not you’re the plank sitting there banging away on the ‘Dislike’ button in best Duracell Bunny fashion…
Erm sorry to interfere with your point/analogy regarding Zoopla, but didn’t they come out from practically nowhere and buy and gobble up findaproperty/Globix/Primelocation like they were Pac-Man which gave them that great foundation and platform to build to where they are now currently are?
I remember the main portal used once upon a time to be findaproperty for lets and RM for sales (who didn’t even specialise in lettings at that time predominantly Sales) then Zoopla joined the party and nobody touched them until they forced the industry by buying everything and decided to strengthen its name by merging and becoming one entity.
Through my eyes, I like to state OTM/Agents mutual have built a false platform based on false promises and hope in order to get where it needed to be on a quicker scale, and that’s by using the vulnerability of Estates Agents today that are genuinely sick to death of the ever so increasing unnecessary prices from Zoopla and RM monopoly, they simply over promised and under delivered, otherwise there wouldn’t be so many complaints about them and chinks in their armoury.
For the avoidance of doubt i hold no shares in any portal and have no financial interest of any kind. I have 3 clients who believe they were competitively disadvantage being with OTM my aim is and remains to help them fight legal action that is being threatened from OTM, a combined action and pooled resources was advised by barristers and makes compete sense. Ha I g spoken to a joutprnalist it as apparent my 3 clients were not alone and the rest is history. I have not set up an action group but one has formed. I have been surprised by the anti OTM sentiment by such a large number of agents who feel let down and misled into future pricing policies.
Let me get this right it is ONLY 3 Agents!!!!!
Running into the hundreds …… I see just like OTM they are not interested in publishing actual numbers! – hundreds would say to me at least 200 individual estate agents at least are considering legal action through this group. Sorry just do not buy it.
Exactly. I don’t buy it either. Especially as I’m getting good enquires from OTM daily – and successful lets.
That may depend on where you are the leads i get are almost none existent, not relevant to current properties and touting for business.
All my initial and genuine leads are coming from Zoopla.
LOOK!!!! A £50 contract from on the market …… Who have thought they existed … Wowsers. I am the most shocked since I woke this morning . Those people who “rung head office and for told that they don’t do £50 contracts ” must be a bit angry they where lied to ….
Come on. Don’t back out now. What fight was ever won over night. As the comment above says “it’s getting interesting now”….it is. It’s getting interesting because OTM is about to reach the tipping point. We all need to keep backing this. The alternative isn’t worth thinking about. Put your efforts into making it work instead of wanting a way out.
I hate to point it out but you sound like the guy shouting “Forward” into machine gun fire as everyone is leaving the building . And when you sell using the “fear ” of “the alternative” I feel it’s only fair to point out that “the alternative” has grown unchecked due to the lack of any credible competition , exactly the opposite of what was set out to achieve
here here – well said inthefield
too much self promotion for the dick from Romans in my humble opinion…..
BLEEDIN’ HELL…
And to think ‘Digital Expert’ said MY comment was a “personal slur” on the bloke!
Dick from Romans? I assume you have some inferiority complex pertaining to ether myself, Romans or both.
OTM had the right ideas at the start. Moved too far towards the profit reaping system. Than the actual help the agent system it was supposed to be.
The last line…what about OTM themselves. Will they meet all obligations for the benefits of all AM members….
I lost interest in this a long time ago, but now it is getting interesting again.
For the hundreds of agents who are prepared to take action, there must be many hundreds more – possibly thousands – who are unhappy.
If all they are left with are some hard core supporters and everyone who has signed for £50, how can they possibly survive?
Many people set up many new business and many new businesses fail. Part of the issue here is that you have a company being run, and backed, by the kind of people that ‘don’t take ‘no’ for an answer’ or ‘never say die’.
Sad reality is that OTM could pull the plug tomorrow and even fewer people would notice its disappearance as are aware that it even exists.
Time for OTM to accept that this particular venture hasn’t worked.
Is it a coincidence that a few days after a list was published of the current standings of OTM members that this ‘story’ comes out ? The published article showed ‘ups’ and ‘downs’ of the members by region.
I don’t know how accurate the figures published were but if you were to add the ‘down’s’ ie members that have signed a legally binding agreement and are trying to renege on it back into the list it would put membership at over 7000, which is actually getting very close to tipping point….
just saying.
OTM – terrible disconnect with their customers and a complete failure to deliver!
Last year we stopped paying our account, went back to Zoopla and invited OTRM to take us to court for breach of contract. If they really cared about their customers they would at least have talked to us and tried to resolve the real concerns we and other disappointed agents had and some still have, however, they performed as normal and delivered nothing.
“Last year we stopped paying… and invited OTRM to take us to court for breach of contract. If they really cared about their customers they would at least have talked to us...”
Sorry – are you for real?
You effectively told them “sue me”. What more is there to discuss?
You’ll have your day in court to “talk” about it all you like, no doubt.