City analysts at an investment bank which has been paid by Zoopla (see Company Specific Disclosures paragraph in the report here) have produced a ‘flash’ note claiming that Agents’ Mutual has lost momentum and that “there is no news on the conversion rates of ‘letters of intent’ to contracts”.
The update by Jefferies on Zoopla says: “Perhaps like Google, Agents’ Mutual is finding that trying to compete with Rightmove and Zoopla is harder than they expected.”
It also claims that Agents’ Mutual has lowered the barriers to entry, claiming that in the previous marketing pack, Gold members had to provide a £2,000 loan note.
It says this has now been reduced to £1,000 per branch. The interest rate on the loan notes is 7%, but was 10% in May.
In fact, it is no secret that Agents’ Mutual has had different Gold membership offers, with the earliest agents being offered the highest interest rates in return for larger sums.
Jefferies also questions where agents’ logos are on the Agents’ Mutual literature, wondering if agents are losing faith.
It concludes: “Better the portal you know than the portal you don’t. Agents may complain about ARPA [revenue per advertiser] rates, but in our view the waning of momentum at Agents’ Mutual suggests to us that, in the cold light of day, agents appreciate that the major portals provide value for money and a very big marketing bang for their buck.”
It goes on: “With housing transactions in the secondary market cooling, now is not the time, in our view, for agents to sever ties with the most powerful, tried and tested routes to market for an untried and untested alternative.”
The note – which seems to be aimed more at agents than at investors – does admit there is a risk to what it is saying.
It says: “The biggest risks to our estimates are the loss of customers and a slowing growth rate in ARPA. If Agents’ Mutual is successful this will impact our estimates on a one-year view, before issues around restrictive trade practices are settled.”
At the bottom of the note, Jefferies discloses that within the past 12 months it has “received compensation from investment banking services from Zoopla” and that within the past 12 months, Zoopla has been a client of Jefferies.
A spokesperson for Agents’ Mutual told Eye: “We note the speculative and somewhat desperate comments in Jefferies’ latest missive.
“We would like to confirm the position regarding our Gold membership schemes.
“The current Gold membership offer is the fourth in a series. Following the success of each offer, the rates and discounts of the next one have reduced, reflecting the progressively lower risk involved for agents joining as our proposition has gained momentum and become unstoppable.
“We have also progressively reduced the amount required to be invested to become a Gold member to enable more agents to support us with pre-launch funding.
“More than £2m has been added to the amount gathered in the first Gold membership offer which provides additional launch marketing firepower.
“The 4,000 offices mark for Gold and Silver members was passed at the end of September and we continue to grow membership.
“The fact that so many agents have been prepared to sign five-year contracts, in most cases before even the portal brand name was known, shows the profound dissatisfaction among agent firms of all sizes with the duopoly operating in the portal market.
“The announcement of our live date on January 26 and the access we can now give agents to view their new portal and to understand the scale of our marketing and advertising plans to support it are increasing our momentum.
“Thousands of members all over the UK are mobilising to play their part in the launch by reducing the valuable profile they give to other portals and by putting their considerable local promotional capabilities behind the portal they own and control and which works for them.
“Any further announcements about our progress will be made at a time and in a manner which benefits Agents’ Mutual and it members rather than in response to claims made by our rivals and others with a vested interest in supporting them.”
Jefferies helped advise Zoopla on its stock market flotation in June, with its shares priced at 220p.
Yesterday the shares ended at 193.70p.
The Jefferies note is here
Comments (109)
PeeBee…"people now signing up due to peer pressure" isn't this the very reason why any new agent that opens up signs up to Rightmove and Zoopla?! And indeed how many will convert and how quickly? Just over two months to launch day and it only takes 30 seconds to send /Z their notice – still a long time to go, although I feel that even with the numbers already on board hay there is enough agents to make the impact required. I believe the rest will now at some point follow.
OOPS – sorry Paul H… I've replied to you but it's stuck to my comment above! ;o)
Re the Telegraph article, did you really believe that any of us thought this type of press was not coming. If this is the best that the national press has then this will blow over in to nothing more than a storm in a tea cup.
As I said previously once the public sees the type of reputable agents backing the portal then they will get behind it as will all agents at some point.
"If this is the best that the national press has then this will blow over in to nothing more than a storm in a tea cup."
Oh how I hope you are right.
PeeBee….if the press and those pushing this type of agenda want to keep going down this route then the full story will eventually have to come out. Agents Mutual has come in to being because of the duopoly and is not the fault of good reputable estate agents.
Here are some stats advertisers might be interested in. Two stories, same subject, two Agency News channels; one enjoys close to twice the readership of the other; 3800 v 1900 reads and attracts 600% more comments 96 v16.
What is the point? you can be as fancy as you like but if the customers don't like you your success can fall off a cliff over night.
If Agent power can do that to its once favourite news channel, imagine what it can do to any service supplier that acts in a similar arrogant and high handed manner?
Comment of the week?
You don't really think the reads elsewhere are real, do you? Every day almost the same number for each story, never mind how interesting, or otherwise, the topic. They could be more subtle about it.
We can't have a story 'stuck' on 99 comments! New target is 200 by Tuesday, please… ;o)
And 6000 views 😉
Hey PeeBee, been a long year hasn't it and it looks like were at the crucial stage of proceedings. I reckon we are at the tipping point now mate what do you reckon? Lots of agents wondering if they have more to lose by staying with the duopoly or jumping on board the #OnTheMarket bandwagon. And I still think there will be more twists and turns between now and launch.
It's been an "interesting" year, mon ami! And one which quite honestly the industry could have done without in my opinion – but hey we're still here debating it as the clock ticks down ever nearer to "the start of something new" I guess – one way or another. Not so sure if it's at "tipping point" – but I think it has come now to the stage that AM is gaining new Membership on the basis of peer pressure rather than true belief in the concept. The question is how many will that convert from here on in – and how quickly? Oops, sorry – that's two questions… ;o)
" "…peer pressure" isn't this the very reason why any new agent that opens up signs up to Rightmove and Zoopla?!
Yes, Paul H, it is EXACTLY that – as I have said publicly on here and 'the other site' for years. Or should it be called FEAR pressure? But here's the thing – once there was peer/fear pressure to join RM. Eventually, MOST gave in to it – and the animal grew whilst we all fed it. Then, came the pressure to join Z. Far LESS pressure, I would say – but that is probably dependant on location. Here 'oop North it certainly is less – and I suggest that this is backed up by the numbers. NOW, and certainly come 26/1/15, there is going to be a third, completely different type of peer/fear pressure exerting a force on the market… and it all depends on what perceived effect COMING OFF one of the other two will have on a business as to what the decision-makers will do, n'est pas?
I'm sure this will be 'front page news' tomorrow – and here comes a record-breaker if I've ever seen one in the making in terms of reads and comments – Telegraph comes out all guns blazing, seemingly on the side of the existing portals – http://www.telegraph.co.uk/finance/newsbysector/constructionandproperty/11246981/Estate-agent-wars-could-make-it-harder-to-sell-your-home.html
If you ever wondered exactly HOW messy I said expected this whole shebang to get… I think we're all going to start seeing it soon, in glorious technicolour, in a town near you…
Having read all this 'carp' below, it seems to me you'd all be better occupied concentrating on your businesses and selling a few houses!
I was at a RM event last week and asked the RM rep a straight question "How many agents do you honestly think you're going to lose?" His reply (assuming it was genuine) surprised me; "1%. Maybe 2% at most". If that is what they honestly think – then I reckon someone is in for a headache of biblical proportions come the 26th January 2015. Personally, I'm counting down the days.
Taff, I guessing you are from south wales? From what I have heard you guys have embraced the idea fully down there and you are all (or the majority of you) are coming off both RM & Z – This I can see work however I think RM rep was right in the grand scheme of things they will only loose a small number of agents as agents are too scarred to walk away
Come the 26th RM will be singing self praise as the number to quit will be a false figure. It will only be after 3 to 6 months when the worriers and duploy start to jump ship, that the real facts will be known. All OTM has to do is show it can deliver and do it in January. What I know so far, its a no brainer and if others areas, like the guys and gals in South Wales appear to have done ….. communicated with each other ……. OTM will become Number 1. As someone said, at least talk to each other, just like breaking the ice for your first date … happy days.
I just worked out how to follow people on twitter. I’m following myself. Penthouse too – begrudgingly. Jeez AM’s got us slinging more sausage than pa working the grill but I cant quit reading for fear of missing something, that’s irony right? Simon’s strutting a zoot suit, not cool buddy and with that much self loathing my advice is get a room. He’s food for thought though so I’ll hear him out but after my body accepts his liver, I’m done with him. Me, I’m all in but to AM or not isn’t arbitrary, dude as agents we don’t suffer fools so why subjugate our relevance. Figure out a side because I’m not trying to teach the world to sing but remember, the genesis of an eco system is self preservation and not an expiration date. Chalk an outline around my 28 minute sobriety dude because Agency’s so fluid right now I’m worn to a nub trying to figure out the priorities, dam you AM for giving us options.
TL – your posts are without doubt my favourite reading even though most of the time I have absolutely no idea what you are saying. Keep 'em coming please!
… and quoting from Smile Please …."My opinion is RM will actually be more aggressive with price hikes as the agents that do leave they need to make up the difference……. ". If that tactic does transpire with RM then agents should rise up….. and walk away!….. it would only confirm what we suspected….. that RM's quick fix to profits is to revisit the trough of estate agents and keep squeezing them as they don't think the will ever squeal loud enough to be heard….. and damningly, agents will most likely just sit there and take it! Every single brokers report for the duopoly details the expected growth stream/income from the Sitting Duck Estate Agents through their monthly fees/ add-ons! I recall thru the property recession, no salary increases, less staff, cost cutting etc whilst still delivering a quality service for my clients! I didn't have the duopoly luxury of going back and milking the estate agency herd to prop up profits! Who are the monkeys and who are the organ grinders? No more! Enough! Wake up! Smell the Share Profits Dripping from that Duopoly Coffee/Profit Maker with copious amount of Estate Agency Monthly Fee Sugarlumps overflowing from their cups! LoverlybJubberly as Arthur Duopoly would say!
In around about way I a in agreement with you on this. My local association are dropping Z – I see absolutely no benefit in this what so ever only uncertainty which is why (for the time being at least) I have not signed up. HOWEVER if as a collective RM was dropped I would be signing up in a shot as I feel the risk is better given the savings I will make. In my OPINION all that OTM will achieve is the lose of Z in it current guise and OTM taking its place and inturn strengthen RM – What does this achieve (apart from making AM founders a shed load of dosh!)?
As usual the same people for and against. For the record the independent stock market is very, very worried and that cannot be denied as share prices continue to fall, if not they wouldn't be falling so much! Only those with an interest in RM & Z share prices is coming out in support and to be expected. As for any web portal, which is best? RM & Z for example do not offer our clients anything more than OTM are offering, if anything they have over the years and for a better word rigged the housing market how they think it should be advertised at the expense of their customers (the agents). There are many features of RM & Z which I being their customer, have ignored my concerns and given me two fingers and then hyped the fee, about to go up more. So for all those who want to stay with RM & Z just remember this, you pay through the nose, have no control, cross sell etc and are not doing anything more than OTM in advertising that I require (TV coverage by RM & Z is naff in my area). We the high street agents made RM & Z but when they went PLC thinking they can get away with whatever they liked, they stuck their heads into the barrels of the OTM shotgun that came along and now agents are now ready to pull the trigger.
Desperate attempt by third rate investment bank to support a business which failed to be truthful with investors and is suffering an unstoppable reduction value, result: Agents' Mutual will clean up.
Impact: Zoopla, Jefferies and all who sail in them are toast
Lots of emotion and opinion, Very little fact another cult member.
I'm sniffing!…… I can smell you spreading your wares lol
The very WORST part about this was that AM was initially there to try and take the sting out of the charges from RM and Z. Particularly RM – who for me at least charge three times what Z charge. The proposal from AM was "We'll charge you more than Z but have no proven track record". If they could remove the crippling RM charges I'd be there like a shot, but with no proof of delivery, why should I take the risk? RM charges are the problem, not Z – ditching Zoopla for AM is bananas as far as I can tell.
Fully agree with you!
Clearly not looked at the business model of AM….. however I have. Next!
Or looked at it and felt it did not hold substance. Next!
I'm loving this tittle tattle, knowing that it irks you so much…… however I must fly! (Humour again!) as I have properties to take on and sales to negotiate….. without Zoop!…. and hopefully without RM. Surely you must have some work to do other than worrying?
Sorry meant for Benjay
Apology accepted. Remorse is a good start. Well done Simon!
Polite request Mr Shinrock; you have got your own outlet for everything you know and reckon about the Industry especially Agents Mutual. It would be really nice if you could could exercise some decorum* and engage with your own audience rather than having to rely on this readership for the attention you so obviously crave.
*Decorum (noun) is defined as appropriate, polite behavior in society.
Ian Springett has already done fantastically well to achieve what has been achieved and whatever one's views on OTM that commands respect. Sadly for you respect is one of the things that can't be bought. So whether OTM flies or fails it is already game set and match to Mr Springett.
Cant say I agree with all of Simon's thoughts but I don't for one minute think he is bothered about Decorum. Also nice to hear the other sides view OTM reminds me stealer's wheel – Fools to the left of me jokers to the right, here I am stuck in the middle …… or …… Pro cult member to the left, Anti scare mongers' to the right, here I am stuck in the middle
As we look down from the helicopters…… music blasting….. gunfire and shellfire….. we see Smile Please looking up and muttering something…… and we shout back "doncha' just lurve the smell of b*llsh*te" in the morning!"…… that's all I'm hearing from you Smile Please. If you believe in the Duopoly model then shuffle off and stick with it….. there is no problem with that, it's your choice….. many have chosen differently!
At no point did I say I believe in a "duopoly" I just wish posters were more factual and balanced.
What "facts" would you like?
Not a mature comment
The only reply I can bless you with is ?…… clearly you are not a mature, rounded individual with an appreciation of film, humour or irony….. I can't help you with that however if you need guidance on being a real estate agent do get in touch….. I would be willing to try with you as it is the Season of Goodwill!…… Merry Xmas 🙂
Sorry GPL comment meant for Benjay, could have sworn I replied to them
Apology accepted therefore my comments are not required.
Apocalypse Now Mr Shine Rock…… that should settle your concerns about my maturity and my humourous comment! Now?…… armwrestling, conkers or hopscotch!?…… your choice….. winner takes all! Sorry….. for the sake of clarity….. I'm being humourous again! 🙂
Conkers, I have kept a 100er in the oven for the past 48 years
You should visit your Doctor urgently! lol
Care to explain why? Not that I am at all concerned but as you are clearly here as nothing more than a troll it seems reasonable to play you at your own game.
I genuinely can't understand why having created a modern and up to date news channel with your own inspirations and aspirations clearly evident you are here for the discussion that is simply absent from EAT.
The only reason I can reconcile is that you will get a rise out of one of the many AM s members who are here supporting Ros and Nick and their increasing number of advertisers.
Well, I realise that from your point of view it must be unpleasant to see me posting here but I'm not like you. I don't feel the need to flock together in a group for mutual support and security. I realise that there are a dozen or so uber posters are absent from our site at the moment and provided they behave themselves they are welcome back anytime, as I think PeeBee once said, its nice to visit more than one pub, or something to that effect. Its true I do get a bit of a kick out of challenging the group view, after all there is little real debate if everyone agrees with everyone. Mature adults encourage debate, playground bullies discourage it, you're welcome at our place any time, its only manners to welcome a guest, even if you don't agree with them.
So the answer to the closed question is no, followed by the expected self certification and justification.
I wonder whether RM & Z have received a total of 4,000+ cancellations yet – after all, launch isn't to far away really.
I met with 2 AM guys – they were really good and really professional. However, I asked them some questions and which they were unable to answer at the time, and said they would get back to me. I never heard another word. Instead, AM appear to be talking to individual franchisees.
Do you genuinely believe that AM agents are not going to drop one of the duopoly, come on Eric?
Or are you secretly hoping that a majority of AM agents don't fulfil their 'exclusivity' obligation?
I have absolutely no idea. I am watching with great interest and sincerely hope OTM succeeds. Why wouldn't I? Competition is a good thing.
So many unanswered questions yet some agents still blindly follow…
Honestly reading some of the arguments for OTM is like listening to a cult! with Sprignett leading it. I honestly do not know if OTM will work for the greater good or not – And here is the thing neither do any of you. You are all blindly following a dream that in the hope it will revolutionise your market without any thoughts as to the consequences. And the fact all OTM have promised is a listing website with a number of agents to support it. Can people please stick to FACTS.
Facts are Smile Please…… there is NO revolution?…. just the revalation that the duopoly are providing a product that is not fit for purpose…… Let me repeat!…… the Duoploy are a bloated, overpriced online shop window!……. not fit for purpose and I as the consumer who pays the bill have selected another provider! So, if you thought Vodafone, Orange, BT, Sky etc were not fit for your business and overcharging you would just sit there? Buckle up your straightjacket…… it's going to be an interesting ride!
D*mn that keyboard, autospell sh*te!….. lol. Revelation!
I think revolution is a strong word to use. Yes the dualoploly are over overpriced (well certainly RM) and yes you have a right to for another provider. The fact is OTM will not have a back office system from day one. The fact is it is a comparable price to Z (so no saving for first few years at least). The fact is The public know nothing about it and will take a period of time to find it, use it, like it. My opinion is most will leave Z which will either allow direct to market vendors or a possible merger with RM. My opnion is their will not be enough agents brave enough over the next 5 years or so that will leave RM in great numbers to reduce their bill. My opinion is RM will actually be more aggressive with price hikes as the agents that do leave they need to make up the difference……. Truth is we can go round for hours discussing and speculating I just wish some pro agent and some anti agents took a pinch of reality with their thoughts.
You make some points which are fair to debate……
@Smile please…."yet some agents still blindly follow…"….YEP Well over 4,000 branches who don't, and never have said, "it will revolutionise our market"…..It's ONLY A WEBSITE!! And yes, it happens to be one that a lot of us believe will be good. It's the anti-am lobby that has treated it like an "cult" becoming obsessed with it and how it will massively change the market-which it won't! I guarantee at the end of Feb we are all still running our businesses in exactly the same way…..it's just that some of us that have signed up to OTM will be paying less for our internet advertising.
4000 expressed interest. not 4000 who will 100% use OTM from day one. I am glad you are saying it is just a website as many more seem to be holding out hope that it will be the only portal to advertise on and high portal fees will be a thing of the past and it will do away with internet agents and alike. And I agree some of the Anti OTM need to pinch themselves as the fact is vendors are not being penalised and it is far from a "Boys club"
"4000 expressed interest. not 4000 who will 100% use OTM"…. I think you are getting confused with Easychris when he said he had 1000s of landlords "signed up"……and all they had done was expressed an interest in not paying commission! You don't have to worry about agents' property appearing on OTM in January, you have my word on that.
Agents also have a free alternative by advertising on http://www.Bigpage.co.uk The site recently launched a beta version over a month ago and already has users appearing on the first page of Google as the first ad above Right Move, Zoopla & Prime Location and many other competitors of the site such as Autotrader, Amazon, John Lewis, EBay and many others. Big Page has users in 75+ countries giving users great exposure to foreign investors and users.
Oh dear – there's ALWAYS one…
GPLs always good for a laugh!
Dear Potential Homeseller…… If you list your property property for sale with our portal we will ensure that we provide potential buyers with all sorts of information, whether accurate or not, whether in context or not…… that will most likely result in your home potentially selling for less. Yours, The Duopoly!
Yip, that is in the best interests of the Homeseller? Take up a hobby jmeapps01…… a football pundit that talks p!@$. lol
Sorry, I thought my job was to act in the best interests of my seller!? ……. not the portal, shareholder, bargain homebuyer!
I know this…..my clients will take my advice as that's why they came to me to sell, because they know that I WILL act in ONLY THEIR BEST INTERESTS! That'll be why my offices are stacked with Thank You Cards….. a real endorsement from a happy client who knows that we delivered for them! There is an old fashioned thing called an estate agent & honest customer service……. the front page news is clients actually believe in that!…… it's just up to agents to prove that, to earn their clients respect for a job well done, professionally done, honestly done……. you get the idea jmeapps01.. and OTM will now be part of that process!
I worked for years against my competition who were all on RM. We were not. They effectively gave their applicant list to RM, my applicants were in my computer, on my desk, on my phone and on my mailing list. I listed and sold more than my competitors because I knew them and could contact them, I did not have to wait for buyers to come to me or pay extortionate fees to buy back my applicants.
For heaven’s sake have you all forgotten how a real estate agent works? If you don’t even attempt to get your applicants back now, you may as well roll over and hand over your business to the two big boys who will tell you how you are going to work it in the future. If AM doesn’t work, the “Duopoly” will be stronger for it, that to me is not acceptable. I AM INVICTUS
Well said SBC. Every poster on this forum who believes that estate agents can only sell houses by listing on RM and Z must, by definition, not know how to sell houses themselves. That says it all for me about their right to even make a comment on this subject.
How did they give an applicant list to RM? And sorry I don't believe you that you listed and sold more than your competition who were on RM some maybe all NO. Real agency works but to be a dominant player at this time in 2014 You do need a RM presence, this may change in the future but you are either a liar or deluded.
Wouldn't it be good to see a transparent forum where those posting displayed their role within the industry. It seems there are some dark duopoly forces pedalling their wares under the guise of someone else.
Smile Please- FYI, the other agents would push the RM membership as almost a USP "We are with RM, so and so isn't". So by pushing RM, we end up in this position. Instead of Applicants registering with you and the other agents in your neighbourhood, they went straight to RM. Any mug can sit back and wait for the phone to ring.
Liar or deluded? Neither my friend, just old enough to know better.
@ SB Cooper – Fully agreed we made the monster, did we give them applicants no they gave us applicants do we feed the monster vendors instructions so we are in this mess yes. And I still do not believe you listed or sold more than the majority of your competition, one or two tin pot companies possibly.
@GPL or a psych test for paranoia
Well can you blame GPL when you do come across as a RM lover.
I have never expressed a love for AM in fact so much so as calling them monsters. I just think the claims that some people mark are not thought through correctly or just plain stupid.
Its the same old names being so pro AM. Get real guys the other 1000s of us out there dont believe it will work especially with only a few million quid to play with. RM and ZPL spend that monthly. I feel for you all as I know you want to believe it so much you have convinced yourselves it will. The reality is the corporates and the non believers (heathens that we are) will reap the rewards come 2015. Vendors will want to hear that their property is on RM and ZPL and when your competitor tells them you're not marketing their property to the maximum number of buyers you will lose. Sorry!
jmeapps01…………. Zzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz
……. and when I tell my clients that the duopoly are having a NEGATIVE effect on their sale and potential price!
Doh!….. jmeapps01…..
One of the big things that the AM issue clearly demonstrates is that there are polar differences between EA's on the join/not to join and OTM good/OTM bad subjects … The differences expressed on this forum will pale into insignificance come 28th January – the equivalent of CIVIL WAR will break out … The fact is AM agents have absolutely NO reason to justify listing a sellers property on OTM other than RM/Z are too expensive – who cares? …. Only the EA…. Whereas non AM EA's will counter with "we are staying with RM/Z because we put your Mr/Mrs Seller interests in being on nationally known brand name portals visited by millions of buyers every month above our interests in saving a couple of hundred quid a month by sticking you on an unknown, untested website with an unknown number of buyers". …. Any AM EA who seriously believes that non AM EA's won't be hammering home a similar line to AM EA's existing clients and potential new clients is in for a rough time … AM haven't thought many potential issues through and this is one of them … Things are going to get very nasty between local EA's very quickly.
From where I'm standing CP I see the duopoly with products that DETRACT from the BEST INTERESTS OF THE HOMESELLER!……. so, forgive me while I advise my Homesellers why the duopoly portals are acting against their best interests! If you tell your Homeseller that you/the duopoly act in their best interests then you are misleading them! When you strip the cr*p away it's that simple!
A strong point made earlier by Danny needs addressing by AM. I have no doubt there are some agents itching to join them but are concerned that they may be the only one in their town and waiting to see who's jumping or not on 26th January. For some this really is too late to wait. AM NEEDS to consider publishing who has joined. There may very well be a strategy for not making this public at this stage, but some agents need the confidence to make the jump. Agents in one town should know how's in and who isn't and this really is down to AM field reps to address asap. As for the lead story LOL.
It's a fair point Woodentop….. certainly in my area, every main agent bar one has joined and many are at the various levels of Gold Membership….. on the basis that we wanted to support AM/OTM and break the portal stranglehold. I would love to gather all the Scottish Agents together and move wholesale away from RM as that instantly provides a non duopoly portal search for homebuyers and for sellers…… however, one step at a time! The Launch Materials look strong and simple…… which after all is what is needed……. all this bells n' whistles to you sir/madam agent and you will be the best…… then straight onto your competitor to sell the same thing!?…….. nonsense!
We have 4 villages covered:…………..Village one: 4 Agents, 2 on 2 not………….Village Two: 5 Agents 3 on 2 not……………….Village Three: 7 Agents: 2 on 5 not……………Village Four: 6 Agents: 3 on 3 not…….. Oddly Village Three for us will benefit the most from this, as they have more corps around them who will continue to lose ground against our current RM only portal presence, they fail miserably now trying to promote RM/Z against us, so if our RM -v- their RM/Z works in our favour now then RM/OTM -v- RM/Z will only be better for us…….. What puzzles me is why don't the business owners who don't know what their competitors are doing pick up the phone call your "competitors" and ask them out right, say I'm in, are you? or I would be in if you would be in, so should we? work together to get control back.
If any of you have a spare few minutes go and read the report, it's got to be the most biased report of the lot. It's hilarious.
"…the portal (agents) own and control and which works for them….Any further announcements about our progress will be made at a time and in a manner which benefits Agents’ Mutual and it members…" So much for all the c**p some people have been spouting about the benefits OTM will bring to the public. There are none.
…" So much for all the c**p some people have been spouting about the benefits OTM will bring to the public"……..Another bright comment with a good whiff of desperation and absolutely no substance from someone who really doesn't need to continue to post as they are not going to be using it anyhow when it launches. Also the fact that zoppla paid for this article……do you agree that it is totally un biased in its results……please tell me?
"City analysts at an investment bank which has been paid by Zoopla have produced a ‘flash’ note claiming that Agents’ Mutual has lost momentum"………ANY comment on this forum today that in any way shows any agreement with this article then the writer needs to take a good look at THEMSELVES. Would Zoopla have PAID for anything less than this opening statement and what follows??……..If you agree with these findings, I assume you also agree 100% that FIFAs declaration that their "independent" investigation was kosher and that Quatar won the World Cup legitimately???
Bad press, unhappy vulnerable vendors, legal threats, these are the real issues. I'm pro industry and pro client, I'm anti anything that threatens it and them. All I read from AM and their supporters is hubris, all I see is smoke and mirrors, we shall see
"unhappy vulnerable vendors"….the site/product hasn't launched yet so why are all vendors unhappy and vunerable?"………If you asked a 1000 customers if they liked eating a chocolate bar before they had a chance to taste it it would be IMPOSSIBLE to answer. You know you have been proved wrong time and time again throughout the build up. With further nonsense comments like this you further cement your outdated and totally incorrect assessment of this new property website.
Wilco, you are tenacious and inventive i'll give you that! Imagine throwing a stone into a pond, do you need to wait until it hits the water to know it will make ripples? Perhaps more apt, do you need to wait until after the bomb goes off to go to the shelter? Actually your chocolate example is pretty interesting, AM is an idea, an idea that can be liked or disliked, you like it and I dislike it, fair enough. But have you asked any customers if they like the idea? No, you have not and thats because you don't care what the customer thinks, this is not about them its about you. AM is like a bit like chocolate, a chocolate teapot….
wilko – if you only eat Cadbury's and Galaxy chocolate and your wife tells you that as from January 28th she won't be buying one of them – she hasn't decided which yet but SHE will decide not you – and instead she'll be buying OnTheMarket chocolate which she hasn't tasted yet because it's not on sale yet BUT it is cheaper … what would you say?? … probably, "I'd tell het to get staffed" So, why do we have to wait until 28th January to predict how many sellers will react to being dumped off RM or Z??
"But have you asked any customers if they like the idea? No, you have not and thats because you don't care what the customer thinks, this is not about them its about you"…Firstly I have written to all our current clients at all our branches to say that we are going to remove their properties from Zoopla and place them on OTM in 2015. All my branches did this approx. 5 weeks ago, also allowing them the opportunity to see us – or end their current agency agreement and NOT ONE even responded with so much as a further enquiry!!! You see this is where you have, in my mind, got it completely wrong….we can't care what the customer thinks about this issue because it IS about US. WE make the decisions about our business models and the customer decides if they like or dislike them, usually linking it to the overall service. You see I don't want my branches to think that choosing to advertise on an alternative portal is really of any importance. As proved by the letter responses-NIL- they are happy to trust what we think is best…..that is what customers do when dealing with a service provider. In truth customers don't care about just 1 portal it's about so much more than that. To ask customers where they want their property advertised shows a complete lack of leadership and insight….2 things essential in the agency service industry.
I totally agree that portal choice is not the key to good estate agency and I also agree that it won't make two figs of difference to a good agents performance, it may even improve it in the beginning if the change is managed positively. However and its a big however, joining AM will lay you open to poaching, your competitors will up play your choice, just as you are downplaying it. Imagine the affect on your staff morale if they lose even one instruction as a result of your decision, management is hard enough without additional challenges. The press are going to have a field day with the cartel angle, OnLine agents will also have a field day about their increased reach and lower fees. Plus banning certain types of agents isn't fair or right and the whole way in which the venture has been managed is high handed, arrogant and opaque
Simon. In answer to more of your out of date comments;……"I totally agree that portal choice is not the key to good estate agency and I also agree that it won't make two figs of difference to a good agents performance" Why do you spend so much of your time commenting on it then?………."joining AM will lay you open to poaching, your competitors will up play your choice" So we aren't open to poaching at the moment? If you really believe this, then you must concede that it will, in fact, work in reverse as well….." Imagine the affect on your staff morale if they lose even one instruction as a result of your decision," Are you saying there is no chance my staff can use the RM / OTM portals together with an established brand to win an instruction from an agent who is on with the existing 2?……" The press are going to have a field day with the cartel angle," firstly..how do you know? secondly that will not affect the day to day running of ANY estate agency……" OnLine agents will also have a field day about their increased reach and lower fees" We both know that the online agents have been around for 10 years and only 2% of the public have been drawn towards trying them. For the moment there is absolutely no indication that the public are flocking to that type of agency model. It is therefore irrelevant what they think……."Plus banning certain types of agents isn't fair or right" You are entitled to your opinion on the banning of the aforementioned 2% property from online agents, but this opinion isn't mine or many others, whichever your opinion on this point it doesn't and wont have any effect on the day to day running of our business. Finally " the whole way in which the venture has been managed is high handed, arrogant and opaque", you aren't a customer of OTM as far as I can see so how do you know this? I signed up all our offices on first gold offer after our solicitors checked the small print. I have since been lied to by both Zoopla and Rightmove (the latter matter had to be dealt with by Mr. Shipside direct because of the serious nature of the complaint) In complete contrast-the information and service from am/otm has been absolutely fine, so maybe if you were a client of theirs you too could have experienced their service?
Simon……you say "Imagine the affect on your staff morale if they lose even one instruction as a result of your decision" and likewise what if you lose an instruction as a result of not being on the RM/OTM combo as RM/Z is a combo which already proves easy to sell against…….. you see many decent agents already lead the market selling against the RM/Z combo with RM as enough…….so imagine those agents (ME) with the new 2015 RM/OTM tool……. But like we all know; we are not instructed on RM or Z alone….. only the Online Only Agents are…..so High Street Agents (good ones) will take this in their stride whether they support OTM or not……… time will tell…..!
“Any further announcements about our progress will be made at a time and in a manner which benefits Agents’ Mutual and it members rather than in response to claims made by our rivals and others with a vested interest in supporting them.”………………..amen. #otm26.01.15 exciting times.
"We want to see this whole thing shrouded in secrecy as it's easier to sell a dream then use numbers"- adding amen to it sounds a little like a brainwashed cult ….#dontdrinkthekoolade
Oh dear. People do seem to be getting very wound up about this. A simple fact or two might be helpful. I personally believe that Zoopla has to be a no brainer to sell, sell, sell. Rightmove's time will come and OTM will be a success. After all, is it the stock market and the public they have to prove themselves to? No just us agents looking to avoid Rightmove's 70% profits. There ONLY reason Rightmove succeeds is because of stock and stock alone. Just think what that 70% could do to your bottom line. Zoopla, except in London, will just become irrelevant. It's a shame as they are much nicer people to do business with than Rightmove.
Thanks Zoopla / Jeffries. I've just read an excellent bit of positive PR for Agents' Mutual. Couldn't have done it without you!
Another desperate measure via Zoopla to detract agents from joining, it just goes to show how low are they prepared to go as they are bricking it come January! Agents are past listening to their concerns and lies, and with the information that my zoopla rep spouted to me the other day about OTM shows they really don't have a clue about the whole strategy. They are picking out parts and added their own nonsense and trying to educate agents with wrong information "Laughable" . I urge any agent that hasn't joined yet or is sitting in the fence to do the right thing, join the current members, build the army and disrupt the duopoly this is going to be our last chance to take control!
All very carefully chosen words…
'We passed 4,000 Gold and Silver members…" means "We passed 4,000 committed and non-committed members"
"Membership continues to grow" – I'm sure it does if you count the X hundred silvers who may or may not be converting to gold.
In the recent statement about the anti-competitive nature of Agents Mutual, the board released a statement " the board is happy that the company is acting within the law" – no mention of whether they believe their members are acting within the law (anyone who missed that needs their he'd checked).
A recent piece of research from the Property Ombudsman, a body who I will trust aeons before Agents Mutual, Zoopla or Rightmove, determined that there are 20,000 sales & lettings offices (not duplicated) in the UK. Plus the 2 or 3 thousand new homes developers, and the online agents who are not being accepted by Agents Mutual.
You may not like Simon Shinerock, but the point he has made about the damage that this project could do to our industry should be heeded. Some have woken up to this already and stepped away, some never went there in the first place. The high end agents are much more protected than others – who will wake up to the hole they have dug themselves into at some point throughout 2015.
Property Industry Eye will be remembered as the website that supported and promoted this thing.
I hope PIE will be very pleased to be remembered as such. Some people do talk a lot of tosh. You sound just like one of those little (about to be forgotten) internet ONLY agents. Keep wishing! 🙂
I have no idea who Shinerock is beyond a blog or two, however I have lived long enough to know that the chances of the law hounding me and hundreds/thousands of others over the actions of a service provder (mutual or otherwise) are miniscule . Do you lie awake at night worrying about all manner of things that could happen to your detriment? Get your blood pressure checked!
@E Henderson…."others – who will wake up to the hole they have dug themselves into at some point throughout 2015"…….Assuming you are right wouldn't I just have to put my properties from OTM back on Zoopla to save my (by then almost bankrupt) offices-tell me it really would be as simple as that , would it?
Look, doesn't matter what this bloke says, it's the fact that even before a launch http://www.onthemarket.com is being commented on by the city, Z wouldn't / hasn't have given any new portal the steam of their p155 in the past and now we have yet another 'analysts comment' – Jonnie
Another desperate attempt to try and stop what is proving to be the unstoppable .. Long live agents mutual..
Agents mutual, something it is clearly not. MUTUAL. Of all the articles I've read and all the announcements by so called "agents mutual". Isn't it strange how I've not been reading anything of the consumer, only agents pockets!!!
Contrary to public opinion, Estate Agency is not a license to print money, cost are carefully managed in order to run a sustainable business. The costs of RM & Z keep going up to satisfy shareholders with no discernible extra benefit to agents or consumer. The public are unlikely to want to shoulder the cost in higher fees, so should agents look to cut costs in other areas. Perhaps less experienced and capable staff? Perhaps less advertising in other media? Maybe we won't spend 60+ hours a week working for our clients? The "online" mob would have you believe we're pouring money into shop premises, it ain't true. The cost of offices is little different. You can't be the local expert by setting up a call centre in North Wales (unless you happen to be covering North Wales.) Saving money is about continuing to provide a full professional service and a run a viable business, not being held to ransom by their shareholders.
The consumer will not benefit in the long term if most of the estate agents who trade from town centre locations are eventually put out of business by the big two portals, and that's really what we are lining up to protect ourselves against. I know a chap who has been working the same town for 20 years and has probably sold every other house in the town in his career at some point. How can that depth of experience be worth the same as someone simply uploading details to a web-site for £199 from 200 miles away? How is the consumer going to benefit when traditional full-service agents have their backs against the wall and suddenly the big portals discover they can then charge £1000 up front to advertise your property direct. But they won’t be able to provide the pre- and post-sale advice which used to be available on the no-sale, no-fee model; they won’t have the many years of local experience most estate agents can offer. All they can work with is statistics and we all know that you can’t put a value on a house by looking at the last three houses that were sold in that postcode, don’t we? Nobody here wants to put the big portals out of business – we know that competition is best for the consumer – but we do want to provide some serious competition so that they can be restrained from increasing their charges by up to 80% at a time whilst making extortionate profits already. I wish I could be showing a 75% operating profit every year but then I have dozens of competitors, not just one. So don’t try and tell me that the consumer will be the loser if OTM is a success – that really does sound like the wailings of the established portals trying to grab at any straw they can.
Reach for the Lifebelts Jefferies! I hear the sound of desperate souls gathering on the decks!……. what's that I can see? ……. it's the Good Ship Zoopla! Your profession is akin to tents, candles, strange mutterings and a crystal ball! Here's a short statement from me Jefferies…. You're talking B*llocks!
Question – are there circa 12,000 estate agency offices; then how many actual firms exist given that Countrywide have 1100 offices, LSL a number and so on. Where is that data to be found? If AM have 4000+ offices on silver membership – how many firms does that equate to? In my area very few seem to have signed, but a good number are thinking.
Zoopla actually display the number of offices they advertise on their website . I saw it recently but can't remember where it was .It's about 20,000 ish give or take , I suspect the 11,000 figure given by Springetts men is the number of agency offices that are viable , I.e around one quarter of the market simply won't entertain it are corporates , 2000 or so new build , 1000 or so on liners. By using numbers that are just simply lies it puts AM in a better light but it won't be hard to work out come Jan 26th as it's easy to sell a dream, when you see the timeshare you've committed to for 5 years things become a little more real.They have lost any chance of business this year as no-one has come to me with any definitve membership figures , who's on, who's off in my area. I think I'm going to wait and log in on the 26th and see for myself