An agent has given up Rightmove after working out that each viewing request cost over £90 and has called for the industry to support OnTheMarket which this morning announced it now has listing agreements with over 10,000 branches.
Sean Jones, of Jones Estate Agents in Stockton-on-Tees, told EYE: “Half of the leads we were getting from Rightmove were simply asking for more information – or even more pictures.
“Leads are important but only when they generate actual business.
“We discounted the half of leads that were just requests, and carefully analysed those that resulted in viewings and what they were costing us.
“Given that we are mainly a lettings business and, in the market we’re in, charge a fee of £350 for a tenant-find service, then £90 per viewing is too much.”
His firm gave up Rightmove in May.
Jones Estate Agents has been an early supporter of OnTheMarket, and says that by the time it quit Rightmove, OTM was supplying more leads.
The firm was then offered a “really good deal” to list on Zoopla, and now markets its properties on both Zoopla and OTM. Jones says that he probably has slightly more leads through Zoopla than he did on Rightmove.
He says his firm has noticed no drop in business, and has had no complaints from sellers or landlords.
He said: “I think agents believe that they have to be on Rightmove, but we’ve proved that really doesn’t have to be the case. Agents should be brave.”
Jones has now posted this testimonial on OTM’s site: “In recent months, the leads we received from OnTheMarket outpaced those provided by Rightmove.
“Each day, we received around four to eight leads from OnTheMarket compared with just two a day from Rightmove.
“With the latest price hike of 39% presented to me by Rightmove, I worked out that each viewing request cost over £90 which was too much, so we removed our properties in May and rejoined Zoopla.
“When it comes to selling itself, Rightmove pushes its number of visits to the entire website, but for agents, it’s the number of genuine leads which are generated which is important.
“I was only receiving about 60 leads a month from Rightmove and believed the quality was poor. Most people only wanted more information which was already on the website.
“As agents, we need to analyse portal leads and remember it’s not just about the number provided, it’s also about the quality.
“It’s untrue that agents need Rightmove to survive.
“There is a certain fear factor at play but I’ve not had a single complaint from a vendor or a landlord that I don’t advertise on Rightmove after I explained the lack of enquiries.
“Now is the time to support a portal that is majority-owned by estate agents.
“Competition is needed in any industry to ensure customers get a fair deal.
“It is no mean feat to take on the market-leading portals and OnTheMarket has come a long way. It is providing us with an ever increasing number of quality leads and that is exactly what we want.”
This morning, OTM announced to the stock market that it now has over 10,000 branches on board, which it believes represent around 54% of the market.
Its announcement said that since floating on AIM on February 9, it had grown membership by over 82%.
It added: “The growth in OnTheMarket’s agency branch base to date has been predominantly from offering free listings under short term introductory trial offers, with a view to converting these to full tariff contracts when the value of its offering has been demonstrated.
“As a key driver to success in rapidly building its agent base, the company continues to invest in expanding its sales team: at Admission, the field sales team numbered 15 employees; as at 24 July this had more than doubled to 31; and the plan is for the team to have grown even further to 35 by the end of the summer. The team is continuing to see encouragingly high levels of agent support and conversion to signed contracts when it presents the opportunity of listing on an agent-backed portal.”
OTM also said that traffic to the portal from February 1 o the end of June was 56.6m visits, more than double that of the same period last year.
Comments (69)
So, 10,000 branches on OTM, just the other 10,000 to go?
The Acid Test will be agents walking away from Rightmove and Zoopla in their thousands …until then it’s just the Grand Game of PR that is being played out.
As a paying Day 1 Gold Member of OTM V1 I look forward to seeing the OTM Member Retention Numbers when the monthly invoices start dropping on the Free Members Doorsteps – when you have to actually pay for a service that’s when the real numbers count!
We currently have a Free Burger for All Scenario so plenty of take-up …..when your burger costs £200/£250/£300 then it lasers the mind to focus on what you are actually paying for.
Incidentally, why do press releases always seem to have a convenient round number to fire off? ….it’s funny that? …..never 9,872 Branches or 10,354 Branches? The magic numbers of PR?!
Let’s await the next round number and the Big Day when the Invoices start pumping out of the OTM Bunker ……there will be lines of Huge Lorries hauling those invoices out and shipping the money back in.
…..and what of Rightmove? …..of course, they’ll roll over and have their tummy tickled by OTM???
Smile please you are like a stuck record.
If you review the share dealing sites its very clear to investors what OTM do and their company aims, in spite of your constant carping it is NOT to replicate Rightmove.
It is to remain competitive and provide a cost effective portal for agents; this is a key part of their strategy. Whatever Rightmove have made you think, not all companies operate the way they do, listed or otherwise. Most successful companies strike a balance between offering clients value in what they do, and shareholders a fair dividend in return.
Beano200062 are you suggesting that Agents Mutual has never fooled agents? Really???
I know the challenges of running a business and changing course is often a tough and brave thing to do. If a business changes course then some could interpret that they lied ‘as they promised this course, not that one’.
Or you could look at all the facts and conclude that the changes were necessary in the circumstances. I don’t know any of the individuals at the top of the portal game, but I will give them the benefit of the doubt that they haven’t reached their place in life on the back of being a liar or ‘fooling’ clients as you say.
In any event I prefer a company thats stated aim is to save me money than one thats stated aim is to milk me every year.
So I will remain optimistic that OTM will stick to its original aims, where it can. I narrowly missed out on being a Gold member Agent, but I have purchased shares in the company, and I am currently on all three portals, although this will change soon.
As above,
Please show me just one for profit company that does not look to maxmimise their £ for a product or service.
As Honest Bloke and others have pointed out, OTM can simply not be trusted.
FYI they said that when float shares would be around £5 to get the required signatures, remind me what was the float price and todays price.
Either they are inept or liars, whichever its hardly a firm to trust.
Balance; I stand by my original statement; successful companies have to strike the balance between happy shareholders and happy clients. Rightmove felt their circumstances meant they only had to please one side.
Granted if circumstances allow certain company leaders might abuse their market position and damage the important equilibrium required to be succesful. They can’t last doing this .
Smile you are beginning to sound like Ducky and Dom but for OTM.
No Beano, its you sounding like a fan with no reason behind just blinding promoting a firm (Just like Dom and Duck)
I may have got that part of my argument the wrong way round 😉
FOOL ME ONCE, SHAME ON YOU; FOOL ME TWICE, SHAME ON ME!
I read all these articles and comments praising Agent Mutual (OntheMarket). Last year this time OntheMarket was seen as the evil who lied and mislead the agents, sued them and did all sorts of nasty things! The articles are still out there in the public domain! People called Ian Springett a liar who created the mutual with a goal to turn it to a ltd company to make millions for himself and his team!
Everything that OntheMarket promised didn’t happen and now you are facing a publicly listed company!
They offer free listings in order to grow their importance and relevance for consumers by using agents listings.
As they grow their consumer base, agents will become more and more dependent on them (as they are of Rightmove) and then as any publicly listed company Onthemarket will have to focus on profitability (to boost the share price from where it is now) and guess what will happen???
Have you seen / heard this before? And this will be done by exactly the same guys who sold you the great “mutual” idea before turning it into a limited company.
So who is the FOOL????
I read this thread and feel like shaking some people.
I have said before, if you are a good estate agent it does not mean you are a good owner. Reading a lot of these comments there is a number of ‘owners’ that should be put out their misery and shot.
The mad reasons to back X over Y shows nothing more than playground economics.
If any ‘Agency Trainer’ is reading this, develop a training course to help people ‘Run’ a business. Because believe me there is a massive need for it!
My first few weeks working with Robert May have given me a good insight in to the changing nature of search, expectations and lead generation for both the agent and the home mover. His vision is about delivering relevant results and therefore enquiries direct to the agent’s digital door to re-establish the personal, service focused experience that has been lost with the rise of the aggregators. Raising the profile of the local agent, allowing better control and measurement of their online space and spend and enabling home-movers to be put in direct contact with the experts are all back on the table. Building that local, digital profile needs to fall back in to the hands of the agents who are best placed to promote their brand and communicate exactly what they have to offer. It might result in a lower number of enquiries but the cost per conversion will be significantly lower too.
Agents need to be brave, Rightmove have for years attempted to bleed every penny out of us, and succeeded. As a small independent agent I can confidently confirm that we currently receive more “leads” through OnTheMarket than through RM for a fraction of the cost. Our Rm “valuation” leads are constantly out of area whereas OTM leads are genuine. The portals are nothing without agents, the fightback is long overdue. Well done Sean and good luck.
If ever you want to stir the hornets nest!!!
If I’d ever pitched, to a new landlord, and said we didn’t advertise on Rightmove I wouldn’t have got the instruction!
Simple as that…
The author must be one heck of a salesman!!
You are right Richard.
We are unable to walk away from RM for that very reason (like 99% of other agents).
There are some agents that can but they will either be a long established agent with low overheads and happy to make a meger living of £1,500 per month take home (rely on loyalty of landlords) or they are the only agent in a village where they do not need to worry about other agents.
I think you may be suffering from Stockholm Syndrone, being held hostage and falling for your captor.
Perhaps we all have over the years.
Undoubtly we have created a monster of our own doing. But creating another by a different name is equally as mad!
We have all got used to a sales pitch that has for a long time included focusing on portals and Rightmove, and now you have to change your pitch. Its not hard, its not going to lose you business if you are good at what you do.
I’m always conflicted with this topic, there is however an argument that several monsters are actually better than a single monster, several monsters will have to keep an eye on each other, compete for a dwindling pot of customer money, there is also the benefit of diluting public acceptance of the fact that there is ONE place alone to look, RM have us by the short and curlies mainly because of the damage we will inflict on each other should a competitor leave them, guilty as charged…..
Mr Hills
One of the best Agents I have had the privilege of knowing over the last three decades does not advertise on Rightmove.
He has half a dozen competitors with physical branches in his patch PLUS all the ‘Local’ NSPR portal listing facilitators – all of whom do, and no doubt try to use it against him.
Let’s just say he holds his own. And some.
And someone dislikes this comment because…?
I was talking to the sales manager for a small regional builder last month just as their latest rightmove bill dropped; close on seven grand for a grand total of………..FOUR leads. Some are having it far worse than High Street agents.
Well advert or not I can vouch for the fact that having left Rightmove earlier this year I have also seen no drop in business. I don’t use OTM, just Zoopla. So far all my competitors remain with Rightmove but I know that several of them have also had enough of the relentless price increases.
I intend to continue without Rightmove, our fees are under pressure as never before, on letting we have the tenant fee ban coming and the market is in the doldrums. Despite this Rightmove expect us to suck up ever increasing fees as they seek to get to their target of £2500 per branch per month.
As for OTM I do not see them as my knight in shining armour given their treatment of their customers to date. Cynical at best. These portals all rely on us and yet treat us with contempt.
Personally, giving Rightmove their marching orders has been a relief. For those that are scared I recommend you grow a pair. You won’t regret it.
Well we are a two branch firm with sales and lettings and our RM invoice each month is £2,667 plus VAT per month 32k a year, yes we have all sorts of pretty banners etc but it’s a hell of a lot of money. If On the market came good at less than half that cost it’s a no brainer to drop RM. #justsaying.
Our average sales fee is around £2800 plus vat. So near enough a sale a month going straight into Miles Share Option’s pocket. It’s why I left.
RM, Z and OTM (possibly to a lesser extent because of a lack of brand awareness) are the ‘go to’ sites for genuine property buyers and property voyeurs alike – with the latter far outweighing the former.
That is why requests for more info, more pictures etc., etc., far outweigh requests for viewings – which is why so many leads are classed by agents as low quality. Having less brand awareness, and less voyeurs, is possibly the reason why some agents claim OTM leads are higher quality.
Irrespective of the maths involved at least it appears this agent has analysed the data and arrived at a cost per viewing and if it is anywhere near £90 that is a staggering amount to pay -sales agents might find it interesting to do a similar exercise.
There is an easy way to get rid of 90% of voyeurs by advertising your properties on your own website via specific search terms on pay per click ie., four bed detached properties in mytown under £500,000. Only genuine buyers, not voyeurs, make detailed searches and agents nationwide are failing to take this form of advertising into their own hands – and in turn gifting the field to RM and Z.
I used PPC in my recently sold agency to dominate the local market and my average cost per viewing from my own online generated enquiries was less than £5 and c50% of my valuation enquiries also came from PPC.
The ONLY area where online agents are truly ahead of the high street is in digital advertising and then only in valuation lead generation, not viewing lead generation.
The internet is wide open to savvy high street agents and can be a real game changer, and cost saver, if used correctly.
Sometimes the comments on this site make me laugh. People spend half their time slating RM and moaning about the ever increasing costs relative to the leads they get, then when someone says they’ve left RM because of this and gone to a different portal, the very same people then slate the person who’s done it and say it must be ‘fake news’.
What ever the truth of the matter/story is, the post does make one valid point in my opinion. We get far too many emails from Rightmove with the subject “Requesting more details/information”…pretty much all of these style enquiries never return phone calls and never reply to emails.
On the subject of bots i have always wondered if websites like RM, Z, OTM and other large companies create fake accounts to provide “leads” thus keeping their numbers high. I’m not saying this is the case, but due to the high volume of enquiries that go nowhere it is something that has crossed my mind often.
Jones says that he probably has slightly more leads through Zoopla than he did on Rightmove.
This is just lazy journalism, these numbers must be black and white, it all gives me the impression that this website has some kind of deal with the new on the market one.
Although I find property eye really useful as a tool to keep up to date with what’s going on there’s a consistent theme to talk down Rightmove and Zoopla and promote on the market, I understand that ROI and CPV is important but you need to appreciate where your audience is, I pay a lot of money to Google and will continue to do so until I find my future customers searching elsewhere.
What I find hilarious is another news story on another site is reporting how OTM are already looking to increase fees.
RM shaft us but have no doubt OTM wants to as well.
Of course the fees are going up for the people who are currently paying zero/next to nothing per month…unless you think it should be free forever?
Well lets be honest,
When OTM was launched the idea it was a not for profit portal that was owned by the agents.
Now it is a listed firm with the sole responsibility to provide a return for the outside shareholders.
Do you honestly think they are going to get to figure X and say yep thats fair lets leave it there?
It’s still majority agent owned.
It makes no difference if ‘Majority’ agent owned!
I could list a company tomorrow, keep 60% shares and list 40% i still need to prove a return to shareholders by way of share price and dividends.
Yes but the current low pricing structure(in comparison to RM) means that there is plenty of room for manoeuvre that would keep both share holders and agents happy.
So at what point is enough, enough in regards to a price OTM charge?
Will you happily pay whatever OTM charge as long as it is £10 per month less than RM?
Smile please you are like a stuck record. If you review the share dealing sites its very clear to investors what OTM do and their company aims, and inspite of your constant carping it is NOT to replicate Rightmove.
It is to remain competitive and provide a cost effective portal for agents, this is a key part of their strategy.
In spite of what Rightmove have made you think not all companies operate the way they do, listed or otherwise. Most succesful companies strike a balance between offering clients value in what they do and shareholders a fair dividend in return.
Beano mate, sorry but you are living in cloud cuckooland.
I would have thought by all the broken promises and lies OTM have been pulled up already you could not trust them.
Show me just one properly run company which does not look to maximise the profit for a service or product they provide.
I am only asking for one to make it easy for you.
And again i ask you or Eastside, what figure do you stop paying with OTM £500, £600, £800 or £1000 pcm?
How do you feel about enhanced listings? Is that okay if they bring them in?
Wakey Wakey, they are here to fleece you for as much money as possible. The fact you and others do not see this is worrying for us an industry. Any agent thinks otherwise they deserve to go out of business for believing in a daydream.
So what if it is part of an OTM marketing drive? If it is true then it is a valid experience. Treat it with caution but why dismiss it out of hand? Enough people bleat pathetically about being shafted by RM and then do absolutely nothing about it. This firm has done something. Good luck to them.
”If its true…” being the operative phrase…
Have we as a reader/poster base suffered from such extensive amnesia regarding OTM and its utterly disengenious/misleading (and short) history?
IMHO suggesting that moving from RM to OTM is taking some sort of principled stance, is possibly naive.
Good luck to them indeed, certainly when OTM’s ‘free/trial’ year is over, and the fee demands start coming in…
Russians have triggered their bot net this morning
Furthermore whilst you are knocking him you missed out on your maths class!
His monthly contribution to tm would be £2700 hopefully you don’t do the bookkeeping in your business!!
Well spotted, and corrected above.
”His monthly contribution to tm would be £2700 hopefully you don’t do the bookkeeping in your business!!”- Thankfully, no. I have a superb set of guys in the accounts department…I just make the coffee
From reading the comments above this just seems like Fake(ish) News, too many contradictions in the story and how very convenient that the agents talking about it on the day that the on the market website team announce the new visitor numbers… As a property owner I still work closely with my local agent who’s actually on Rightmove and Zoopla because a) he’s brilliant at what he does for me and b) I want my properties listed in front of by far the biggest audience.
This is exactly what onthemarket is trying to do. With them offering free subscription till April, there are much more agents on board thus more properties on OTM. We too are getting many leads in two of our offices and through OTM. OTM planning to dish out around £20 million marketing. If they manage to get UK’s 90% Agents on board , it will become very interesting. People are starting to consider there is a third portal also and traffic is increasing steadily. RM’s bossy attitude would take em only South from here. When it’s becoming difficult for the average agent to make ends meet in the forthcoming fee ban, a subscription of £1200 (incl VAT) is almost one staff’s wage. No subscription should be over a few hundred quid at the max. We’ve been on and off RM and juggling between RM and Z. There is a difference in the no. Of leads but certainly not 3/4 times the price . I’ll say it’s around 50/50 but when it comes to the price RM can be 4 times expensive,which makes it less value for money. OTM are on the right track. They should extend this free period for another year so that by then they would’ve looped in at least 90% of Agents. Then they would be in a position to dictate terms. And hopefully they don’t get big headed like RM or else they would see the same fate. A £200 monthly subscription is the max a portal should charge.hope OTM read this post and act upon it.
Rather than mocking the bloke, shouldn’t we be backing his sentiment? Rightmove feed off the very product we provide them and then charge us huge amounts to do so, and we’re having a go at the guy trying to make a stance?
Hear hear.
Absolutely. Clearly he may not make the best use of the leads but half of all agents don’t. This story would be an interesting one to follow up in a few weeks to see if he still feels the same. I would love to drop Wrongmove but I’m too scared! We have never been on Hoopla.
We had same market share wen on zoopla for 10 years paying £300. Onmarket killed that and we had to go to rightmove.
When are on market going to call it on rightmove?
You have until feb. Know one knows you. No one cares. Your a non brand with 1000’s of agents waiting for you to do your job…
Take the pish out of purplebricks on tv or something… push the no sale no fee honest business model.. for the love of bless you… DO Something… or close.
They clearly are doing something. Their presence on Google is always TOP, this means more leads to me, often more than Z OR R, there are plenty (probably majority) of people that when looking for a product just google what they want, hence this works for OTM and me.
Not wishing to remove you from your ”high horse” Moveaside01 (I’m sure you look very handsome upon it), but this article is an advert for OTM, masquerading as something else (possibly funded, encouraged by OTM?)…
That’s what reporters are supposed to do. This article is just stating facts – which clearly support the move we are making – away from Wrongmove and Hoopla and over to OTM..
I’m sorry Newsboy, reporters aren’t ”supposed” to advertise, without making a clear declaration as to the intention of the content being for advertising purposes.
Eyereaderturnedposter
Sounds like ‘Like jealousy’ to me?
With 10 likes so far I win✌️.
Ha!
”If there is a single quality that is shared by all great men, it is vanity.” Yousuf Karsh
I love a good debate in the morning, its smell like…PIE
17 likes now, just sayin’……………
What is clear from this article/ thread of comments, is that many readers/posters are deeply passionate regarding the subject of portals, which is heartening to see.
Whilst I do, from time to time, apply humour to some of my commentary- this is never intended to be derogatory or otherwise disparaging (nor do I post for the ‘likes’). I also do not shy away from debate, simply on the basis that my view may not be a popular one.
For the record, I hold all portals in similar contempt (Zoopla to a lesser extent), albeit for different reasons (summarised below) and view them as unwelcome bedfellows (granted, we have all been a part of/ enabled the creation of these ‘monstrous’ firms):
Rightmove- Due to their arbitrary price increases, and little in the way of substantial/quality client interaction.
OTM- Due to their ‘Trojan Horse’ like approach to onboarding agents in the early days, with the promise of an ‘agent owned’ panacea- which never materialised. Indeed it still amazes me that OTM is still (by some) referred to as ‘agent owned’…it really isn’t.
Zoopla- To a lesser extent, as they offer relatively inexpensive exposure of stock. However, their wide ranging acquisition of software firms/providers etc. is of some concern as they hold in their hands, substantial volumes of data, which could be used to the detriment of those firms who provided it.
23
25!
It sounds like Sean doesn’t know how to use each lead effectively.
Quite, you can find Sean in a park near you being run ragged by his labradoodles…
If my understanding of this article correct, half of the 60 leads were disregarded, and the remaining 30 leads per month were costing £90 each. Therefore, is it correct to surmise that Mr Jones’ subscription to Rightmove was costing his firm £2,100 per month for a Lettings package???
That is considerably more than my firm pays per branch, per month to be on Rightmove…
As helpfully pointed out by Essjaydee51, my maths is a little ‘off’ this morning…
My comment should read ”…£2,700 per month…”
Which of course is even more exorbitant!
Think its more than every single firm #FakeNews.
Precisely Smile please…
I’m suprised that such a ham-fisted attempt to advertise OTM has got so many pulses raised.
When has Rightmove ever charged Per Lead?
It is a matrix for working out how effective your return is on the costs…it makes it bite sized and easier to understand in theory. Its how those in portal sales justify or rubbish costs and their rivals.
Rightmove’s only advantage at the moment in the current climate is that it has invested so heavily in real time uploads. That is what keeps OTM down at the moment and why OTM asked agents to do exclusive uploads when property comes onto the market. The public reacts to whichever email arrives with a property first. Its not rocket science. Just remember that when making your decisions on costs and whether to allow a business that lives off you and your data asks you for inflation beating extra costs, no matter what is happening to your income elsewhere.
The article above is quite genuine and not paid for or any other incentive offered by any other portals.
I spoke briefly to Rosalind yesterday with regards to the move my firm had made in dropping Rightmove after closely analysing the ‘leads’ generated by RM.
I can see that many of you have made some wrong assumptions – quite incorrectly in trying to work out from the leads generated by our monthly contribution to RM.
If you read my comments carefully, and I have said this many times over the last few months – it was a cost per VIEWING. In other words, after speaking to the person making the enquiry (where we were able), providing information needed and then leading to an actual viewing.
I am sure that this will not work for everyone, but it is certainly working for us.
I simply wanted to try Z to see whether this has any affect on my business, with clearly an option to return to RM if it did not work and therefore risk is minimised.
I have supported OTM from the beginning being a GOLD member and as such have not pushed or advertised RM since the membership started and thus obviously a supporter of an Agency Owned Portal.
In fairness the article does not say he was paying ninety quid for every ‘lead’.
It states “each viewing request cost over £90″
That’s probably what I’m paying per email “lead” – and some.
And when the quality is along the line of “We are a newly opened cleaning company and would like to quoite (sic) you for any work you need doing” – received twice for good measure – then I’m as glad as a chuffing marmoset with piles that I pay for the service.
I note that ‘SJEA’ has also pointed out what i’ve said above re viewing requests not ‘leads’.
For the record I have previously questioned SJEA on his decision to go to Zoopla. It makes zero sense to me – and in my opinion should stick firmly in the throat of every OTM supporter that has been unfortunate enough to suffer the consequences of the open warfare that raged between the two.
But that’s just my opinion – which proves the old adage that, like @r$eholes, we all have one.