The row over new portal Houser taking listings from estate agents’ sites without their knowledge or consent continues.
Advice can now be passed on to agents to get their listings removed, if that is what they want, and also how to deal with vendors who might be tempted to have their property listed on Houser anyway..
As Eye reported yesterday, Houser’s taking of properties means that agents unwittingly breach OnTheMarket’s “one other portal” rule.
It became clear yesterday from readers’ feedback that Houser was indeed rapidly building up its inventory by taking properties from agents’ sites.
One post said the inventory was being expanded, including with listings from OTM agents Knight Frank and Savills.
Knight Frank declined to “dignify” Houser with a comment, while Savills said it would investigate.
Another post, from CommonSense, said this.
“I called Houser to see how the listings will be populated. This is what I was told.
They get listings from three sources:
1. Agents adding their own listings: they say lots of agents are doing it and from the customisation on the agents profile it backs their claim.
2. Aggregating listings from those who have not yet joined.
3. And user submitted listings.
Any user can take any listings from the internet and add it to Houser’s site, if that listing is not already there (user submitted listings).
These users submitted listings could be by a user or by the seller of the house (or by the family members of the seller).
For example the house owner of one of the Spicerhaart listing can actually upload that listing to Houser himself.
If this happens, it will be interesting to see how Spicerhaart group will deal with their client on why he/she is trying to market his own property.
Also they say listings are free for the next five years but not for those who asked to be removed. Once removed, they will charge a monthly subscription fee for relisting.”
We asked Spicerhaart for any comment and advice that we could pass on to other agents – who may well be small businesses without the resources of a large independent.
Last night, Paul Smith, CEO of Spicerhaart, told Eye that as far as agents wanting to remove listings from Houser are concerned, they have the upper hand.
He said: “Agents have copyright over their listings, both images and text, so they can’t be used without approval.
“Agents should write to Houser on official headed company paper, which is a legal document, stating this and requesting that the listings are removed immediately.
“If a client themselves lists their property on Houser, then agents should remember that the majority of sales contracts are for sole selling rights, which means that if a property is sold in any other way, the fee is still payable to the initial agent so there would be no cost advantage to the seller.”
Comments (25)
I have also just tried to call Nigel Harvey at Houser (thanks guys for the spadework and phone numbers) but was told he was "very busy" and that he would get back to me "asap". I said I wasn't surprised as he was probably inundated with calls from agents demanding that Houser remove their properties immediately. Pretty soon could be an empty site !!
Houser's customer relations manager is Nigel Harvey
149-151 4th floor High Road, Romford RM6 6PJ.
nigel.harvey@houser.co.uk
Direct line : 0845 004 0640
or 0208 597 3949
How to make friends and influence people….
So I found out this morning that my profile and properties were listed on this horrific site. Not only that, they had our office in the same location, same logo with two different trading names under two different profiles!
I finally found an email address to contact them on ('contact@houser.co.uk'). So I wrote quite a stern email explaining that they are not to have my our agencies listings on the site and to remove immediately, this was their reply:
Hi,
I am writing back in regards to your request for removal of listings and information from Houser.co.uk.
While we regret that you don’t want to be a part of Houser anymore, if you want to forego all the benefits of FREE listings and tools, please visit the link below to formally request removal of information pertaining to your business from Houser.
http://www.houser.co.uk/Agents/RemoveListingRequest.aspx
Please note that this correspondence is not an official acknowledgment of your request.
You need to formally forward it using the provided link in order for it to be processed properly.
Regards,
***** Harvey
Customer Relations Manager
149-151 4th floor High Road, Romford RM6 6PJ.
Direct line : 0845 004 0640
P: +44 (0) 208 597 3949
E: nigel.harvey@houser.co.uk
W: http://www.houser.co.uk
The link they provide redirects you to a log in page to set up an account… So I called them… spoke to some guy that basically said he was confused as to why I didn't want free listings and would get the manager to call me back within 2-3 minutes… Still waiting….
Jokers and a poor way to start a business by ripping of agents properties to build a portal for a monetary benefit in the future.
This isn't a portal for buyers to benefit from. It's a piece of software that they have designed/fallen upon that they use to grab data from others websites, with an outer shell that says 'Property Search'… pathetic
I've been going through the motions like you….haven't had my request to remove all our branches properties from the site acknowledged. Don't know why any agent would want to be associated with this company at all.
"Sole selling rights" is the key and not sole agency. Also bombard trading standards with complaints over copyright etc.
Well that’s just peachy, these guys ****** my stock and I’m in breach, jeez did someone just slip me a roofy or has the statute of limitation run out on common sense because that just sucks. Share this for no reason but choosing where I list keeps me honest, like the warm fuzzy feeling from a good scotch or making bail, it’s the little things. Look this aint buyer’s remorse because I’m all in with OTM but Houser’s parasitism should be in the frame, right next to their broken business model of charging for listings. Dude I aint about to cry a jar of human tears over this, I’d rather sign up to ARLA and start spending that 375K they got covered with CMP so here’s the thing, whilst the thought of Houser’s bondage approach to agency makes me want to touch myself in a bad place, I’m cool knowing there’s a safe word but boy, to lack the n*ts or the smarts for something so granular as building a business yourself must be really sh*tty.
Thank you Nick Salmon. @The future, the answer is : because those of us who have signed up to OTM have agreed not to use any other portal (including those who have scraped our properties). In any case I have a bit of a problem with other portals picking up our material without our knowledge or consent and using it for their own ends (i.e. bigging themselves up and making money on the back of our hard-earned instruction). These are the true parasites in my opinion living off the backs of the rest of us.
In reality this web site is awful, it can't be found on a google search, there are few photos and the properties are not listed generally in the town that they're actually in. I eventually managed to find an email address for them yesterday and asked them to remove all our listings but see they are still on houser this morning. There seems to be no contact telephone number and no address. If anyone else has contact details I'd love to speak to someone at houser.
Vendors being liable to pay agents commission on the back of a sale the agent has marketed is nothing new.
Its very interesting to see who's kicking and screaming with this introduction of a new portal. Why would an 'agent' want to remove their listing from FREE marketing?? interested buyers still have to go through that agent to purchase the property.
THINK! if everybody climbs on board Houser?…..
If Houser picks up momentum I've no doubt they will be brought out for a very large price….
The future, One of the issues is they are also excepting direct to market listings for free. So a vendor can list their property without the need for an estate agent. Why would an estate agent want to promote such a site? Quality control is another factor, whatever an agent feels about fees to RM or Z they do a pretty good job policing the site, not too many fake ads etc on the sites (obviously they will have some). Also look at the wording 5 years free, as you have said if everybody jumped on and made it a success such as RM (remember how cheap that use to be!?) than in 5 years if its the "Portal of choice" what do you think will happen then? These portals have come and gone a hundred times they don't work as they are not agent friendly and do not offer anything new to agents to buy in and promote it. OTM (which by the way I am not a member) has a unique offering as they are owned by the members and aim to reduce portal fees. Now it may or may not work, only time will tell. But it has captured the imagination of around 20% of the industry and they are backing it.
@ the future….you say "Why would an 'agent' want to remove their listing from FREE marketing??"……because it is done without our instruction or authority. If you approve of this sort of set up where do you draw the line?….
For example would you(or your sellers) be happy if a porn website decided to scrape our property data(as usual without us knowing) and advertise "free" as pop ups in a hardcore movie???……..we can't do a proper pro sales job if, through no fault of our own, all and sundry want to build a business marketing OUR instructions without us, or our sellers, knowing.
Wilko, yesterday you accused me of making things up about an AM agent in my area. Last night I noticed this on the same agents site: Your property will appear on over 10 websites including OnTheMarket.com. I have a screenshot of the site containing this text. Like I said yesterday, everything I have posted is fact.
OK…..so why not say who they are?….It's just that it is a recognised fact that you can't go around saying potentially damaging comments without stating the facts/names….it never was acceptable, isn't acceptable, and wont be acceptable in the future……in any action, any walk of life or business situation.
Harree, I for one as an OTM agent will be extremely annoyed if an agent in may area is claiming to be on OTM as well as 10 other portals. Why not contct OTM directly to inform them of what this agent is doing, Or even contact your local trading standards?
Wilko – I haven't named the agent so there is no damage whatsoever being done. What I am doing is pointing out the duplicity of this AM agent, a duplicity which IMO will be being repeated to one degree other AM agents nationwide. In my area in addition to the AM agent saying "Your property will appear on over 10 websites including OnTheMarket.com", we have one AM agent still advertising Z, RM and PL portal logos and two AM agents who are still not giving sellers on valuation visits any info on OTM let alone telling them they are dropping Z. I have no doubt from your posts Wilko that you are being entirely transparent and whilst you might not like what I post and accuse me of invention I have to tell you again the my posts are factual. Why these AM agents are acting in this way is beyond me. If they fully believe that OTM is in their and their clients best interests why be so subversive?
From what I understand its "Competing Portals" properties maybe on 10 websites, agents, rightmove, local paper, otm etc – It would be unrealistic to think OTM agents will just be on OTM and one other – If they stay with Zoopla there are about 10 websites it goes on Mail online, Telegraph, Primelocation etc … End of the day if agent cannot be on Z RM and OTM at the same time.
Haree, unfortunately , nothing you say, about this , without naming names, is relevant or true in my view. You see it is very easy to say that so and so has done this and so and so has done that. But unless you are prepared to say the actual estate agents' name you shouldn't post, if you aren't lying then you are being a coward – it has to be one or other. If you don't want to be accused of either of those don't post on this thread. You won't find one OTM agent that thinks that 100% of agents signed up will play by their rules, but I believe that most will, and the ones who don't will be thrown off for breach of contract (providing they are aware and encourage a 3rd or more portal) and lose any investment they have made.
Harree…another thing…..remember OTM hasn't launched yet so no need for any member to have changed anything on any of their media yet…….also, quite frankly, it's none of your business if/when OTM agents mention OTM on valuations as it is not a legal or contractural requirement……also how do you know that every otm agent isn't informing their sellers of the launch on the 26th…..do you go on every valuation with them…..or have you made that "fact" up as well?
Wilko, take your head out of the sand and give yourself a shake. I'll decide what I post not you. You aren't the blog policeman.
Paul H and wilko. I remember in a post somewhere 'Harree' stating he was from my neck of the woods. Now I can honestly state that I haven't got even the remotest clue who 'Harree' is – and I sincerely hope that you believe me on that point. Of course I can't prove that to be the case but IF I did, then I'd not hide the fact as a) it doesn't matter whether I do or not and b) ANY credibility I may have on this site would be vapourised in an instant. ANYWAY… working on the assumption that we operate in broadly the same patch (North East) I've checked out the websites of the Agents I know are OTM Members. Sorry, guys – but he is 100% bang on the money. The subject company website states, under the heading 'Online Marketing', "Your property will appear on over 10 websites including OnTheMarket.com." You might not believe me any more than you do 'Harree' – but if you want "proof" of who the Agent is then I will be happy to pass the information to Nick or Ros who would I am certain be quick to shoot me down if I was being untruthful – I would expect them to. Now, 'Smile Please' – I note that you say "From what I understand its "Competing Portals"."
Okay… talk me through, then, why this new 'offering' – which is essentially FREE – is now being labelled by AM as "a competing portal"? What ISN'T, by virtue of the very nature of their being, "a competing portal"? Whether the "over ten websites" the subject Agent intends to use to advertise property will fall IN or OUTSIDE of AM's goalposts is a question that only AM can answer. It's whether they want to dig that deep with THIS and EVERY OTHER MEMBER that will finally determine and set the 'rules' in stone – until then be prepared for copious bending and 'misinterpretation' to suit the occasion…
PeeBee that's the thing with rules they are not in stone for a reason, the administrators like to bend them. Basically they will enforce the rule if they feel a danger from another offering or they feel it's for the greater good. I have not signed up to OTM and I can't say I'm bothered or surprised. OTM can't police every agent or website and as I previously said if you are on Z you are on multiple sites. It's like financial services the FCA set guidelines not black and white rules but if they don't like what you are doing they stop you. To be honest I don't see why all the fuss as long as they are not on all 3 there is no issue in my eyes, idea was to break up Z and RMs hold
Also, and to finish (if anyone is still reading this thread)…The site hasn't launched yet, so any agent can be on as many sites as they like. After the 26th then smile please has summed that up nicely in the 11.46pm post.
"Also, and to finish…" Erm… with respect, wilko – I ain't finished yet! You state "The site hasn't launched yet, so any agent can be on as many sites as they like" Yes, I totally agree with you. HOWEVER, the company stating ""Your property WILL APPEAR ON OVER 10 websites INCLUDING OnTheMarket.com." is I would suggest clear indication of their intention – or is already a misleading statement. Don't you agree?
marcH – We sympathise with the difficulty to wading through 100+ postings ( it is very gratifying to see such great reader engagement!). However the current setup means it is possible to post direct replies to comments so they are 'nested' together. If we simply ran each posting in purely chronological order it would become even more difficult to follow the comment threads.
2 questions: how do the smaller businesses amongst us get ALL the portals that list our 'assets' without our knowledge or consent go about getting these removed in order not to breach the OTM rule that we have signed up to? second, can PIE possibly come up with a system whereby postings can appear in chronological order ? Trying to read through the hundred plus postings on the Houser issue yesterday was a bit like swimming through jam ;).