There will be no valuation tools on the new OnTheMarket site, no information as to when a property was first marketed, and no history of price reductions displayed.
Ian Springett said that all these features are unhelpful to agents trying to market a home to best effect for their client.
Springett also said estate agents should be entirely in charge of how they market properties – and not portals.
He also said portals should not aim to mimic or cut across what estate agents do.
Ian Springett, chief executive of Agents’Mutual which launches OnTheMarket on January 26, was speaking after one of this week’s hot issues.
The Telegraph last Sunday ran claims – repudiated by Springett – that OnTheMarket wants agents to hold back properties from whichever other portal they are on.
It reared its head again yesterday, when the Daily Mail followed up on the story in its City pages here
Springett emphasised to Eye that agents – and not portals – are fully entitled to make their own decisions on marketing and how best they serve their clients.
He said: “It seems to me this goes to the nub.
“When a vendor instructs an agent, they are appointing them to market the property and achieve a satisfactory sale of it.
“Only then does the agent get paid. So the vendor is paying the agent for what will be a completed sale.
“The agent then selects the marketing which should be done – generally at no extra cost to the vendor – and wants to place the advertising in the most effective environment. It is their call when each piece of advertising runs.”
He said this was one of the key areas of distinction between a full-service agent and an online operator.
He said: “If the vendor goes to a fixed-fee internet-only provider, then they are effectively just paying for a listing on selected portals and they pay up-front.
“Obviously they want the portal listings specified which are the main thing they are getting for their money.
“The Rightmove analysis of internet-only market share recently put it at 2%. And this after 20 years of the internet.
“The great majority of property-owners recognise the benefits of engaging a local, visible, full-service agent who will work for and with them to manage the transaction end-to-end.”
Springett also emphasised the legality of the ‘one other portal’ rule.
He said: “We consulted our lawyers. There is nothing anti-competitive about it.”
Springett listed the features the new portal will not have as including:
– “Our own statistics-based opinion of the value of their client’s property”
– The date on which a property was first marketed
– The price reduction history
– Trends in page views of the property
– “Intrusive advertising for other things”
– “Links to adverts for other agents”.
Springett said: “These are all things that are fundamentally unhelpful to the person trying to sell or let a property.”
Comments (63)
I think this is the best way to sell against RM & Z. Those sites are clearly there for the benefit of the buyer, not the seller, hence marketing history, reduced history etc.
It's a no brainer for vendors – would they rather their property on a site that's about selling for the best price, or a site that's about buying for the cheapest price?
It'll be a no brainer for vendors when it has a sustainable audience which means seo which takes time to build. That said Shaun re your point it's the first time I've seen someone state a viewpoint that I'd buy into as a seller. I'd love to hear more about why consumers will go to OTM in the short to mid term. Until agents are off both Rm and z Otm won't have unique content so building a decent audience will be tricky.
Remember 'that' Guardian/AM story that got everyone's kn!ckers in a knot a week ago? Well – I just pulled this wonderful quote from a poster which further proves the pointlessness of the Z 'Valuation' tool:
"Zoopla's estimated values are incredibly useful, as long as you don't believe them. I've successfully challenged their estimate twice – once (downwards) when asking for a council tax banding review and secondly (significantly upwards) just before putting it on the market…"
Cue the nods of 'yup – tell me something I didn't know already'… but what the H£ll are buyers supposed to believe which is the whole point of this debate, innit?
The valuation tool was always my bugbear with Zoopla which is why I took my listings off Z in 2010, then when they merged with Primelocation (which at the time was working well for us) I decided to bite the bullet and stick with prime which then meant my properties going on to Z. But for me this has always been Zooplas achiles heel. I can understand why Chesterman started with it (USP) but he should really have dropped this once the site was established as he must have realised from agent feedback that his paying customers weren't happy, but not only did he not drop it he also then pushed on with similar products that are unhelpful for agents/sellers and goes against the grain of agency. Personally (and you'd expect me to say this:-)) but I think the consumer are going to really love the simplicity of OTM and the user friendliness of it as opposed to the information overload on Z.
Well… only time will tell on that front, Paul H – but I'm in full agreement with you on the points you make about the "information overload" – especially when the "information" can be fiddled by exterior forces to such point that it is less than useless in the ways we know happen now. Agreeing? You and me? Put THAT in your wallet and keep it for another day, mon ami! ;o)
Like I said PeeBee we tend to agree on many issues accept 'you know what', but theres always time!!!! Well done on putting PP in his place by the way 😉
Thanks – but you just know he'll be back.
Hey-ho – you know MY overused stance on that, mon ami…
Bring. It. On.
Have a good weekend, PeeAitch! ;o)
…. and back to the lead story. At last some who either knows what he is doing or listens to estate agents. Mr Springett you get my vote for talking sense and taking the correct course of action. The more I see of OTM, the more I know it will be a success. I only see agents staying with either RM or Z is to wait and see if OTM web site works as there is possibly a lack of confidence? Once it is up and running they will have no excuses for dropping all the other portals. The public will switch over once everyone gets on board. As for not affording OTM, LOL its a fraction of RM who are not offering any more of a service to the public!!!!
SO… the good old "valuation tool". How helpful this wonderful widget is to homebuyers – they can simply check it out and offer what they see, knowing it's the RIGHT amount 'cos a clever computer says so.
Allow me, if I may, to quote from Z's User Comments section, what "Magda" posted in May:
"Many thanks for the revised valuation with which I am much happier!"
'nuff said, I would suggest.
Nice, Faisal Butt has let another one of his boys loose on here, do we assume Russell Quirk has gone for a lie down? – anyway, point is emove don't like http://www.onthemarket.com and that's fine and also a result for them as they aren't able to list on it…………..but if they dislike it so much why get all fisticuffs about not being able to go on it? odd people – Jonnie
Simple….because they will be the ones that the major portals go to , cap in hand, for some of the shortfall we will be leaving them with. They also have ZERO bargaining power, unlike OTM members, because there is nowhere else for them to go. They are backed into a corner on this, hence their trying to discredit it.
Once more he's ******* agents, he should be thinking about the user experience on his portal, without a good UX for home hunters there will be no traffic and NO leads so your tools don't mean a thing anyway.
the starred out part says r1mm1ng, great job there eye! NOT
PP I know you love the techy side but why do you think that buyers go to the portals for anything other than that's where the properties are?Some visitors may like playing the games or looking at the gadgets or indeed perhaps seeing what their neighbours house is up for sale at, but the bottom line is they are not the ones we want. I think you have to afford us some respect that we use the portals to generate leads but they do not sell the houses, we do that. Many agents over the years have relied on just the "I want to see this property you are advertising on Rightmove" approach as their only proactivity and they are the ones who end up struggling in their markets because they just don't sell enough of the properties trusted to them to sell. If you were an estate agent you would hear hundreds of times sellers saying "I don't want professional viewers, I want buyers" and thats exactly the same for us, we want the serious buyers, the ones who put some effort into finding a house, we don't want or need the volumes of waste of time enquiries we currently get. But i say again the portals are simply a means to an ends for us, they add to the already hundreds of people we currently know about looking for certain types of property. Selling houses is a LOCAL business, complimented nicely by a website companion (or two), nothing more.
This is neither clever or intelligent. There is no place for this sort of language or inuendo on this site. This shows that not only do you have no industry knowledge, but you lack even the most basic of social skills in my opinion.
In case you are not intelligent enough to realise, portal person, my last comment was, of course, for you.
PortalPerson – your use of 'colourful' words like that above are clear indication that you spend WAAAY too much time trawling (trolling?) the internet.
You need a hobby, Sir. ANOTHER hobby, that is…
That's pretty much how I see it. Consumers having a great search experience on a portal are – I would suggest with no evidence to hand – more likely to want their property advertised on that portal. I'm struggling to see what OTM's consumer message is. In fairness, I have seen a HUGE number of 'next big thing' launches in the UK property and automotive markets over the years and, apart from the consumer message, OTM is the best I've seen.
Nope- he should be thinking about the UX within the context of the contract with the agent. It may mean joe consumer gets a little less perhaps but so be it- 1st rule of business – give your customers what they want as if you don't, or indeed cause them problems, they will walk.
Which is what is happening here.
As an aside, I do hope OTM are going to let agents display their own telephone numbers against their listings. I despise the way RM & Z refuse this basic right, replacing them with numbers that have annoying announcements to both caller and recipient. I hate answering the phone, all polite and professional, only to realise that I'm talking to a ****** recorded announcement – only to have to quench my fury and repeat myself when the real human finally gets connected! Arrgghhhh!!!! Asked them to turn it off. They said NO.
How will they track usage or sales without it.
Its an option I understand – You can have the whisper service or your own number….. I am all for your own number I have this with RM as I too hate the being monitored bit by them, however WE WILL be having the OTM number for a period of time at least as a way to measure OTM enquiries, which may prove useful as a new portal in measuring its effectiveness.
At what point does the absolute focus on a portal that delivers what's best for Estate Agents become a poor consumer user experience? This is my biggest problem with OTM and 80%+ of the comments I read from the agents. The customer seems to be an after thought. A house purchase is the biggest transaction 99%+ of us make in our lives, so the more information available to help us make the best choice or get the most value the better. I get why the seller doesn't want to see price reduction history etc. Trouble is a lot of sellers are buyers and they do want that information.
Interested observer…I ask you the following. You view a property that you fall in love with, asking price of £500,000, before putting in an offer you see that Zoopla are telling you that they think it's worth £430,000. Based on this information do you think you will be doing yourself justice by offering the asking price?
I'd happily give the agent the chance to tell me why Zoopla are wrong. I'd also be happy to know if the property started at 500K and came down in price as well.
"I'd also be happy to know if the property started at 500K and came down in price as well." Indeed that's because your a buyer and want to buy the property for the best possible price, of course estate agents don't represent buyers do they.
Buyers are often sellers no?
Happy 1st time maybe. 2nd doubtful. 3rd…no.
It's a clever move by Z for this feature and probably accounts for 1/2 their traffic which we get repeatedly told about by them but it is contrary to its clients' interests.
Clients pay the bills. Such a basic being ignored- how it has continued is beyond any good agent.
“At what point does the absolute focus on a portal that delivers whats best for Estate Agents become a poor consumer user experience? …. the more information available to help us make the best choice or get the most value the better.” Sometimes, the client needs protecting from themselves. A few weeks ago, I valued my own house using an online “valuation” tool (boredom can be a terrible thing). I live in a terraced house and the near identical one next door sold for £175,000. The online tool valued mine at £130,000 because it just seemed to average out other sales nearby – including smaller terraced houses which sold for £90,000. Bluntly, an online valuation tool is useless. On the lazy, bored or deluded would even think of relying on one surely. I hope that OTM will have a comparables feature WHICH MEMBER AGENTS can use, but I don’t reckon they should be available to any Tom, **** or Harriet.
I accept valuation tools are sketchy at best. However, let's be clear there are other services that offer genuine consumer value where agents would prefer a lack of transparency.
The date on which a property was first marketed – useful for buyers considering an offer, up and down sides for agents.
– The price reduction history – downside for the agent
– Trends in page views of the property – useful for buyers and sellers I'd have thought
I don't know where to start with why what you are saying is so good for the none Z agents……… Page Trends well Z page trends confirm Z gets far less attention than RM…….. Date added, does not tell me that 4 agents previously marketed the property over 3 years! But hey hoe I registered it yesterday with no price reduction so asking price is it?
Less attention than rightmove doesn't matter to a consumer who probably looks at both so that doesn't disprove the usefulness of page views to a buyer. . And I'd imagine your example re date added is perhaps not typical. Thanks for replying though.
"And I'd imagine your example re date added is perhaps not typical." Oh I think you'd be surprised at the reality of that, 'interestedobserver' – maybe not quite as colourful as Ric's example – but where I am probably a third of homes marketed will chop and change from 'Agent X' to Agent 'Y/Z/pick a letter' when the latters' incessant touting mailers start dropping on the homeowners' doormats…
Quite right….it should be a client tool around which professional expertise can be applied. Not taken as read.
"interestedobserver" nail, hit, head 🙂
OTM don't care about home hunters, they only care about making agents feel appreciated for the minute; a strategy that will bite them in the backside
PP you are funny! genuinely funny…… but to keep up with you……. home hunters are often home sellers! So a vast majority of Home Hunters will be happy their house does not have silly features working against them and will understand why OTM does not have this…… you really need to open your front door, or even bedroom door…… but don't be scared if you see something moving….. its likely to be what we call a human being……….
Again as a point that has been made several times: the house hunter is NOT the client. It is in no way the best interest of a seller to have the portal their property is displayed on informing their would be buyers the algorithms that have led to that sites opinion of the price they should be paying. This is not about conning a buyer, its about removing the confusion standing in the way of their decision to purchase and moreover the price at which they wish to purchase.
That's a fair point.
****. Don't rate the chances of whatever portal you work for. Misinforming consumers is how not to care for them. In any case a portal is paid to serve its clients 1st and should operate within the contract they find themselves. What other features do you feel OTM will not have that makes poor joe consumer wanna cry ?
Sterling work. You take all the best consumer features from Zoopla and decide to not have them.
Yes that's right Stephen…..'tempt me' is really great in allowing consumers to become estate agents all by themselves which is of course really good for them starting out on the sales process. 'Computer says no' mentality.
And for agents who pay the subscription fees, might as well call it 'screw me'
Online valuation tools and AVM's simply do not work. I can't argue that they are a feature but would seriously question what benefit a random number generator is to anyone let alone a consumer. The only benefit AVMs can be is giving the Instruction attempter an insight into what the vendor is primed to think their property is worth. Knowing that a prospective vendor is thinking £250k makes it all too easy to haul up and quote £275k "try for £299k as an ititial punt"
I assume Stephen you have never been to see a property where the vendor has had the unrealistic "Zoopla" valuation in their head either.
I've been to plenty of properties where the vendor has an unrealistic valuation in their head. It's down to them, not the agent or Zoopla
Then you haven't been because the "Zoopla says our property is worth…." comment comes up a number of times.
I see / hear that all the time! Well that and 'well it said on the telly / I read in the paper that house prices are going up, so how can you say my house is worth less than I paid for it?'
Oh, dear, Mr Jury – only a few days ago, on another site, you "welcomed" YET ANOTHER newby from an unrelated industry into a senior marketing position with an Onlinie, stating that you had received plenty of stick from the industry due to having "no estate agency knowledge". You scoffed that the marketing bod at a major airline need not know how to fly the fleet. I repeat my response to you then, here – "I couldn't agree more, Mr Jury. HOWEVER… to then burst into the cockpit and tell the Pilot and First Officer that their job can be done better without them you should at least have a vague understanding of aeronautics.
You consistently demonstrate that you have none whatsoever – and therefore you simply crash and burn every time."
Oh… another thing – 'Liking' your own comments MIGHT get you feeling all loved-up and fuzzy inside… but it don't make them REAL, RELEVANT or RIGHT with those who actually can smell MDT wafting through our monitors.
Have a nice day!
I didn't reply as I didn't get your point, I still don't. We have plenty of experts at their roles at eMoov, I'm not about to tell them how to do their job. Same applies to my BA comment, which you seem to have missed the point.
stephenjury: peebee is a troll with nothing better to do that start arguments. He has zero clue about anything in the property industry and refuses to reveal his identity. He is best off ignored and he will get bored and go away!
You clearly don't read the same posts we all do, he is clearly an estate agent and asks very insightful poignant questions of the "non estate agent posters" that rarely get answered, normally I might add, because the points raised cannot be justified.
Peebee is one of the most insightful and consistent posters on Property Industry Eye, not only is he fair and balanced in what he posts he has a logical and sound industry base to support what he posts. He does post in such a way that commands a reply but PIE and Estate Agent Today would have a fraction of their appeal without him and that certainly does not make him a Troll. In respect of him getting bored and going away, I suspect that is more wishful thinking on your behalf than likely.
Ill give portalperson a leg up here as he mis typed; stephenjury: portalperson is a troll with nothing better to do that start arguments. He has zero clue about anything in the property industry and refuses to reveal his identity. He is best off ignored and he will get bored and go away! – Jonnie
Indeed. I should know better than to bite
Ahhh… my own Troll has returned while I've been busying myself, in his/her usual half-@r$ed attempt at belittling me. Well… that's fine and dandy with me. When I attract negative responses then at least I know someone's awake – and I reckon this individual needs to check his/her own pulse at lease once a day to confirm blood's still pumping never mind a state of consciousness so I've saved him the bother of that check at least…
ANYWAYS… 'PortalPerson' – you have me ALL wrong, I'm afraid. I NEVER "get bored" with what happens in my industry. Everything I eat and drink; the roof over my head – you name it, in fact, I have as a result of my 36-year involvement with the property industry – so the chance of me finding it all a bit tedious at this late stage in the game is a bit remote… but not QUITE SO remote as the chance of you calling the ball correctly on pretty much anything related to what I believe is my specialist subject. Well… that and maybe Star Trek – but we're not arguing about the name of the Klingon Chancellor who initiated the Peace Treaty with The United Federation of Planets, so let's just stick to a single script shall we?
You say I know squat about the industry. You have an opinion – enjoy it as your forefathers may have been one of the millions who fought for the right for you to express it. And an 'opinion' is something we ALL have – at least one – on SOMETHING or other.
Now – as to my anonymity. Plain and simple, my "identity" is irrelevant. What does it matter who I am or what I do? I am, as I have always said, one minute tooth on one tiny cog which whizzes round alongside countless others – all of which to some degree or other do something to affect in a tiny, tiny way, the output of the mahoosive machine known as "the property industry". The minute I stop – another tooth takes my insignificant place. I have no craving of fame or notoriety. I have no ego to massage. And most importantly, I have no hidden agenda. I simply want the machine to run smoothly. And as far as having "nothing better to do that start arguments" – well, there are many Estate Agents who might well agree with you there, as I have crossed swords with many over the years on these forums on various matters, as well as the chancers, charlatans and Johnny-come-lately's who believe themselves to be the new 'Hovis'. But I never start an argument that I don't (or CAN'T) finish… unlike some… and I certainly never start or join in an argument for the H£ll of it. But you just pick on me all you want – sticks and stones and all that – my little anonymous non-ego doesn't give a fuppeny and I'll still be at it tomorrow so you knock yourself out on me – that way you're leaving other nice people alone. Enjoy oneself – I'll be laughing at your rantings just as much as anyone.
Sorry to sound a bit cheesy – but thanks for the kind words above, folks.
You supply the Ying to Mr PortalPerson's Yang ! ;o)
Stephen……..Who is the agent acting for? Who pays the property portal invoices? and who should a property portal listen to in terms of what THEIR paying customers want as features (remember who pays them)?……………..Buyers should be fed what information the estate agent wants them to be fed, in order to generate a phone call and conversation with a serious buyer…………… NOT have it decided for them…… Z is just like me saying to a client, "I have put your property in my window at £199,950, but we have also stated just after the price that we only think the house is worth £178,000" ……. no vendor would want this and quite rightly…… I hope Z continue to have these features so you can continue to visit their site…. but if you are a "genuine and serious" buyer who relies/prefers searching online…. you know you will have to visit OTM come January.
Almost all what Ian Springett has said here has been posted on EAT or EYE by posters who according to the likes of Paul H and Wilko had an anti Agent Mutual agenda. All Ian Springett needs to do now is work out how he can climb down on allowing in the full service Estate Agents without a window display and the small Agents who can't commit to a 5 year, £24,000 contractual commitment and he will have built a portal that can encompass the full range of professional agents in the country not just the ones the core membership think of as worthy of membership.
Personally I believe that agents without the shop window, but yet serve one town or a collection of villages have a case to be included. I have a number of high street offices because I believe they also act as an advert for my business, but I fully accept that others may choose not to do this but that doesn't make them any less of an agent. The key here though is serving one town, the minute agents start covering multiple areas they become simply an advertising platform themselves and that is not estate agency.
As a rural agent I would ask the question, if you can trade and be a market leader without either of the two of the Duopoly that is great, but if you can't trade then do you think without choosing to go with OTM, controlling your future marketing expenses and most importantly the survival of your business is possible? I have to say we are a small business and with my personal investment being at stake, I am delighted for one to back OTM and take the chance, otherwise the future in my opinion for all independents is bleak and does not look good for clients and customers alike.
As someone who openly champions the cause of the small independant agents there needs to be room to accommodate the single office firms who want to support AM but find the financial commitment and the legal obligation too onerous to sign up to.
I do genuinely understand your concern Robert but OTM know that they need the commitment or in the assent to be what all agents want it to be, then they will be constantly trying to pull back in the waverers. Ask yourself if you see your business being around for another 5 years, if you have that confidence then take the plunge. After all the best way to predict the future is to create it!
All true and all brilliant.