An agent is reporting Rightmove to Trading Standards, citing Consumer Protection Regulations.
Simon Fisher, of Absolute Sales & Lettings in Torquay, is angry that Rightmove’s local “find agents in Torquay” shows national online agents who have no offices in the Devon town.
Rightmove has strongly defended itself.
Among those listed for Torquay are national online agents House Simple, and the Express Estate Agency – which gives a Manchester address in the Torquay listing.
Fisher’s case is that it is misleading consumers to say that they can “find agents in Torquay”.
Fisher said: “Those that don’t actually have a physical location in a town should not be listed under the agents’ section as being situated there.”
Online, or ‘non local’, agents are charged using Rightmove’s geographic pricing model.
A Rightmove spokesperson said yesterday evening: “We don’t categorise agents by high street or serviced office as what is important to Rightmove is the quality of service they offer, and that they meet all legal requirements for estate and letting agency work.
“The ‘find an agent’ section allows all our members the opportunity to advertise in areas where they can provide estate or letting agency work.
“Rightmove provides different types of membership based on geographical coverage and stock levels.
“Therefore someone covering a wider area would pay for additional branch memberships to reflect the additional brand exposure they receive.”
Comments (32)
Some interesting comments indeed. Let's wait and see what Trading Standards think about the issue…
If I'm honest, I have never understood why some agents seem terrified of private listings. If I can't do a better job than a deluded / blinkered owner with a box brownie then I'll eat my cat. I have seen with my own eyes Mr & Mrs J. Publics best effort in preparing details and photos, and if I can't do a better job than that then I would pack in the job out of embarrassment.
A Rightmove spokesperson said … “..what is important to Rightmove is the quality of service they offer". ****** hell, I nearly choked on my croissant.
Re " what is important to Rightmove is the quality of service they offer, and that they meet all legal requirements for estate and letting agency work." Complete and utter bulldoodoo RM do nothing to ensure their advertisers meet legal requirements e.g. You don't have to look far to see adverts with no EPCs
@housesimple…………….bit of a windy response from me but……
First off thanks for engaging in the discussion, im not fussed if budget agents like yourselves have a virtual listing in other towns, sounds like you are simply having something you are entitled too under the RM terms, im also sure there are agents doing the same thing in neighbouring areas to their core office areas.
I also support and agree with your comments on the focus of customer service, here at Jonnie & Co we do very well from our reputation that’s been built on customer service. So that’s two things we are at one on?
The bit we don’t agree on is the customer choice, they have huge choice from both the budget market and from their local high street and EAs are hugely competitive against each other, in my patch fees (paid on job done / completion) range from 0.5% to over 2% (3 market leaders are all at the higher end) there are also thousands of budget / online options aswell as the ability to sell or let them selves / privately.
It seems you budget chaps want it all ways – I accept the most vocal ones from your sector that post here aren’t speaking for all of you and you probably aren’t keen to associate yourself with them on that but broadly budget agents sell there proposition on fee and slagging real estate agents off?
This brings us onto http://www.onthemarket.com, when it launches it will be the second biggest portal overnight (ill take the kicking on that later), its been set up by estate agents for estate agents and their customers, with all the huff and puff about the budget agent revolution (which has been a long time coming / 10 years) why don’t you give Faisal Butt, @easychris @hatched and so on a ring and do your own version, im sure if you did you wouldn’t want the old boys like me on it? – you all talk about how tec savvy you are and what a bunch of daft old goats we are but we have managed, im sure you budget boys could do better than old fools like us
And just to finish…………the consumer is not being denied a chance to save money, they can choose from the wide range of options, including you, its just that only 2% of them do, your biggest threat is not estate agents but the budget market getting crowded and a race to the floor on these upfront fees – Jonnie
Chaps, i'm not sure what you're complaining about. Online agents have to be allowed to exist somewhere, we do offer the service in that location, so why not? Remember these portals appear to be weighted completely in your favour, we have absolutely no benefits of scale. And yes this does mean we pay them well over £100,000 in fees per annum. It's scandalous.
In our eyes this is the unjust part and it is something that there are alot of people looking into right now. Why should High street agents have the benefits of scale and Online agents not to some extent have the same? If your branch increases to 200 properties you're still charged the same as we are for 40 properties. So in other words we pay 5 times what you would for 200 properties. Is this fair?
The industry is clearly weighted against the competition of online estate agents, the old boys club like structure behind the industry and the portals is blatantly highlighted with the latest entrant Agents Mutual (Onthemarket), it is clear for all to see.
Why should Joe Bloggs be forced or trapped into paying £1,000's to estate agents on top of £1,000's already paid in moving costs and taxes. Housesimple are all about the consumer, and the consumer clearly wants choice. On fees and service, and before you start off on one, we offer the full service, accurate valuation guides, professional wide angle photography (many agents don't), professional floorplans (many agents don't), massive marketing over 700+ websites (many agents don't and won't once Onthe market launches), professional negotiations, professional sales progression, and yes even hosted viewings if they so wish.
It's a full service and a great service too, hence why we've won awards and are rated in the top 100 out of 10's of 1,000's of agents by independent review sites.
This all harks back to the determined fight of an established club fighting tooth and nail to deny competition from entering this market. It's been the same for years, and hopefully will soon change for the better, Agents Mutual may well bring this to a head once and for all. All you are really doing is denying the consumer choice and the right to save some money.
"And yes this does mean we pay them well over £100,000 in fees per annum. It's scandalous"…..Why do you pay it then?….is this an admittance that you (and your share of the 2% of the overall pie) could not exist without the high street agents property that make up 98% of Rightmove? "Online agents should be allowed to exist somewhere"……you choose where you exist…..and last time I looked you all want to be alongside us 98% professional high street agents ….so maybe you should be the ones to stop complaining….not us. And you can probably look forward to more increases in the new year as RM and Z will have to pick up £25m lost revenue (OTM) from you guys that aren't allowed on OTM. Good luck with that.
I think it works like this, if you are an online agent you pay per 50 properties, so if you have 500 properties that's 10 branches, now, you would not want 10 branches in say Portsmouth, so RM allow them to choose other locations to list in.
Trevor that's exactly how it works!
Does anyone know how much 50 properties costs to an online agent? Are they getting a better deal than "high street agents" who've been with them for years!?
Exactly the same as the high street agent but capped at 50 per subscription. RM are getting the better deal by charging them double on what you have built up.
All the agents(sheep) staying with rightmove are boosting their coffers for them to launch next year their own online agency. The public will pay them directly, they will appoint a local rep to provide advice on value, do the photos and description and they will control the rest from head office.
"boosting their coffers for them to launch next year their own online agency. "Absolute nonsense, in my opinion. What exactly would Rightmove gain at the moment if they did this….please explain to me?,,, There are already 100's of online agents that offer this service and in the 10 years since the online agents started they have only managed to attract 2% of the selling public to use them………hardly a reason for RM to naff off and alienate their existing agent clients (and their stock) to earn a few hundred quid from self sellers!!!
Unless I'm mistaken, and I don't think I am because I've had this exact conversation with a Rightmove representative very recently. If you want to have a physical presence in "Find an Agent" i.e. Your business shows up in the listings – you must pay the core membership fee PER POSTCODE. I.e. If I advertised in SE6 and a customer searched for an agent in South East London, I would show. However if a customer searched for an agent specifically in SE13, then I wouldn't show. If I wanted to be in both SE6 and SE13 i'd have to pay two core membership rates, this is what a Rightmove representative has said to me.
If this is different for online agents then Rightmove are in the wrong. You can't have one rule for "high street agents" and another for "online" agents – that isn't fair.
If you think about how most high street agents will expand into another area, it's not that dissimilar from "online agents". No one's going to open an office up off the bat with no stock, that's daft – more than likely they may have a member of staff who lives in that area and will try to generate enough properties to warrant opening an office whilst obviously paying to be advertised in "find an agent" by Rightmove.
I'm not against OTM by any means but it does beg the question – How are OTM going to allow agents to use their site to expand into new areas? As well as this, how are agents going to set themselves aside from other agents? From what I've been told, there are no premium listings, no valuation alerts, no back end, nothing that allows you to gain vendors. Will this be changed? If it is changed will it cost more to advertise on OTM? Before you know it, it wont be much different from Zoopla!
"You can't have one rule for "high street agents" and another for "online" agents – that isn't fair." Sorry, but who mentioned fair? And fair for who anyway? The RM shareholders think it's very fair, because it brings in income.
I am a lover of Rightmove, but they do have to abide by their own sometimes overly-stringent advertising rules and certainly the ASA/CAP. Their page clearly states;
FIND AN AGENT IN [insert town here]
So, fine to advertise all agents who also "operate in", but then change the page to state;
FIND AN AGENTS OPERATING IN [insert town here]
The reason they won't want to is that "AGENTS IN….." is what gets them found well on Google for such frequently used search terms, not "Agents Operating in….".
They could have a section at the bottom to say "The following agents also operate in the […..] area;" and list them there, just like Yell.com does. The user then makes their choice of one IN the town or OPERATING IN the town…
This is unbelievable from RM. When they say: “We don’t categorise agents by high street or serviced office as what is important to Rightmove is the quality of service they offer, and that they meet all legal requirements for estate and letting agency work", we should be reading: “We don’t categorise agents by high street or serviced office as what is important to Rightmove is HOW MUCH THEY CAN PAY US – NOTHING ELSE MATTERS". I could offer my services to the good people of Torquay – I have 35 years experience in the business and I bet I know more about how to sell a house than the people at House Simple, but I recognise that I know nothing about the property market there, so I leave it to those who know what they are doing. Why can't RM see the blatant misrepresentation of a Manchester firm claiming that they are a Torquay based agent?
Why can't RM see the blatant misrepresentation of a Manchester firm claiming that they are a Torquay based agent? Simple in my opinion – because they're blinded by the money they make from them. They don't WANT to see it do they!
RM are looking at supplying directly to the public, Hence the courtship of online agents is merely a ruse to understand the business model.
Everyone beware.
Eamonn, Good to see somebody else can see the bigger picture! and if OTM does take off this is a serious factor to consider, along with the possibility of RM and Z merging.
I can't see a merger as that would provide a tipping point for agents to join OTM….My punt is that Zoopla will go the self listing route on its own.
I think the high possibility is that Z will take private listings (one reason I still have splinters in my backside re OTM) but 2 successfully listed companies and a possible weakening of one (i.e. Z) there is a good chance they will merge, this is what companies do to keep up share value, both share price will increase with speculation rtc and also merge they will have one domant portal for agent RM and then have a straight to vendor website Z – This is why I have said in the past careful what you wish for. At the moment very difficult for onliners to get a foot hold. if Z decided tomorrow to take private listings that changes the playing field.
And on a side note we are all to blame re this position we all took the easy option feeding these monsters because it was easy. What we should have done is go down the SEO route and promoted our own websites or invested / promoted a local association one. Hindsight is a wonderful thing! unfortunately now we will be shafted one way or another if we support OTM or not, question is which has the least amount of damage.
@smile….It is inevitable that in the not too distant future that a big site will accept private listings…..If you look at some "onlinies" they are selling both Zoopla and Rightmove listings for £69 already(to go on both) – so whether OTM started or not, you cannot blame OTM for this. What OTM has and will do is provide a professional, fixed price option for the high street agencies which is not driven by profit. A merger will be bad for Rightmove in the short to medium term with Z as they would potentially be saying goodbye to 98% of their stock as agents take it to OTM as their sole portal to strengthen it further and save on higher portal costs from a merger. As self sell effectively already exists(as already mentioned) the take up is tiny from the public(2%). In short the public seem to not want to deal with the self sale of their properties at present.
I think that's where we differ on out views with OTM, not for one minute am I blaming them, we are to blame. The truth is online agent or hybrid agents will be the norm one day. OTM may just speed this up, as I previously said its a choice of which causes the least damage., joining or not. I am also not arragoant enough to feel my choice will directly effect the outcome but is why I have splinters! if Z & RM did move it would not be a case of 98% agents will leave as some will still be fearful and also find some smart **** will find a loophoop as technically it will be one other portal as half deal with private listings. I honest think the next 12 – 24 months are critical for the traditional high street agent, we will either come out of this stronger or we will have to radically change the way we do business forever. Whichever it will be interesting!
Seems that the complainant would rather complain than leave Rightmove for OTM. Nailed his intent to the mast eh!
There will come a time (probably whilst I am still alive) when the internet agent will dominate the sales market as opposed to that place on the high street.
I would love to see the Rightmove 10 – 15 year strategy plan as they will need to increase the fees of the internet agent to make good the loss of the "regular agent" evaporating.
The Internet agents will have enough market traction in due course to pull from Rightmove (no doubt in part to that Rightmove charging greed) and just rely on the Google type search to drive traffic and business to them.
And then Rightmove will have self-inflicted a double cut to the **** to better the 73p of each £1 we pay “passing through” the business and into “others” pockets.
We live in interesting times.
Totally agree with Simon's sentiments. The implication when you type a search area and find an agent is that they have a presence there. Just another example of the arrogance of the RM model and an open invitation to see the future #OnTheMarket. It's a bit like haart having boards made up and a different telephone number for villages where they don't have a physical presence there.
Here we go again – the usual RM smoke and mirrors pricing policy. So does an online agency pay RM a'core membership' subscription for each 'geographical' location the agent seeks representation in? If so on line agents must be paying RM hundreds of thousands a year – I doubt it!
I'd like to know how an online with the "pay peanuts, get monkeys" fee scale can afford RM membership in several geographical locations. Unless of course the powerhouse that is RM is actively 'courting relationships' with the online agents (and who knows, maybe in the future private listings) in the wake of #OnTheMarket
"I'd like to know how an online with the "pay peanuts, get monkeys" fee scale can afford RM membership in several geographical locations"
It's called investment….usually from un-suspecting people/private equity companies who don't have a clue that these models are all badly failing at the moment……Online agencies originated about 10 years ago and have only taken 2% of the market……I wonder how much of the travel industry online travel/flight agents had taken in their first 10 years of existence online?
I thought it was if you had 1 property in that location you will appear in the 'find an agent' page.