The managing director of EstatesDirect.com, one of the newer ‘hybrid’ agents, has hit back at Eric Walker’s comments on Eye this week about online agents.
Walker said that online agents failed to dominate their own market place – traditional agents did.
But Ben Grove, who heads up EstatesDirect.com whose chairman is Poundland founder Steve Smith, said that Walker’s views were “baffling” and claimed that the new wave of agents are taking the industry to the “next level”.
Grove also called for a new benchmark for the whole estate agency industry, that the public could recognise and trust.
Grove, formerly of PropertyFinder, said: “Eric Walker’s comments have raised a number of interesting points, not least the baffling view that the most important measure of any agent’s success seems to be the ability to drive traffic to its website.
“However, Eric’s points have also inadvertently voiced support for hybrid estate agency models, who are changing the market place by cutting costs and increasing flexibility whilst simultaneously retaining the face-to-face support system associated with traditional models.
“Whilst we agree that online companies have made high street agents pull up their socks and work more efficiently, as we all know, it is not solely estate agency websites that we need to drive traffic to – in fact, it’s more a case of putting customers’ properties ‘out there’ as far and wide as possible in the market place.
“The main way to do that is through the big boys like Rightmove and Zoopla, sites that both online and traditional agents have unlimited access to.”
Grove, pictured below, went on: “We wholeheartedly share Eric’s view when he argues that the local knowledge to do this job well requires local people operating as agents without an office, and that’s exactly what we offer.
“We have a team of regionally-based business owners – not employed staff – in 20 key locations across the country, with a further five per month on average currently being recruited and trained in the field.”
Grove said that his own firm is “pushing the market to the next level” by providing customers with a range of fixed-fee packages with the support of regional property specialists.
Grove said: “For us, it’s not just about saving customers money, but the quality of service and experience they receive from us as experts in the field.
“As a representative of ‘new world’ estate agents, we urgently require a ‘safeguard’ or a ‘mark of guarantee’ such as Which? that the public trust, is independently regulated and recognises the service customers receive as credible, accountable and professional, whilst monies paid should be insured against a duty of care.
“There is no more important reason for campaigning for this established body other than as a mark of trust and excellence, in a concerted attempt to change what has, for a long time, been seen as a stereotypically bad industry in the eyes of the consumer.
“My belief is that as a consortium of leading online entities, traditional, online or otherwise, we all need to fight for the same end goal: to improve the industry and its processes by educating the national marketplace in the most cost- and time-efficient ways of selling or letting properties.
“It’s not about competing over web statistics. It’s about good service, fair fees, best practice and expert support, fair and simple – and we’re leading in the pursuit of change.”
Comments (30)
Online portals are call centres at the end of the day. If people want to use them they will. But the majority of the public only trust the job to be done properly is ….. face to face. We knock the socks off every online agent who has ventured into our area, as do the other high street agents next door and in the next town, next city. Just a fly in the ointment, offering cheap rates like Ryan Air and Easy Jet and everyone knows what an experience they are. The point being missed is that online agents are probably the worst part of the industry to regulate and open to fraudsters!
Okay… as the one whose usual invitation to the Mr Grove's of this world is 'Bring it on', I am not viewing this through the same red mist as others – neither, however, do I possess Mr Grove's rose tinted spectacles to see what he claims is on his side of the fence. Firstly, though marcH – I have long said that we should be thankful to Ros for publishing articles like this, not resentful. The simple fact is that PR exercises like these are churned out day after day by ALL Agents – be them office or bedroom based. It is in the public domain – and Ros simply condenses them into one site so that we in the industry know what's being said and by whom… good, bad or indifferent. It is what we DO, surely, when in possession of this knowledge, that is important. Counter-articles from industry 'big-hitters' like Eric Walker go some way to redressing the balance – but in my opinion it is where the 'you's and I's' of the industry have our two penn'orth here on EYE that will carry a lot of weight. And, so far, I would suggest that a lot of excellent weedkiller has been spread thickly over Mr Grove's seeds of doubt. But… I'm going to have my own say based upon the content of the article which I sincerely hope that Mr Grove (who undoubtedly knows that the above offering would receive an airing here on EYE…) will respond to.
"Grove also called for a new benchmark for the whole estate agency industry, that the public could recognise and trust." Champion! Can't see any problem with that in the least, Mr Grove. Draft it up, publish it for industry and public scrutiny and we might just get somewhere. I just wonder what in your mind such a "benchmark" would entail – and how you anticipate a 'one size fits all' approach, considering the vast differentials on offerings in the marketplace. Perhaps you would like to expand on THAT point before you go off typing out your manifesto like a demented steno – hate you to waste your time blowing down the beak of a dead duck.
"… in fact, it’s more a case of putting customers’ properties ‘out there’ as far and wide as possible in the market place." Hmmm… funny then that although it is 'accepted' that the vast majority of homebuyers move within a radius of seven miles of their current front door thresh, that your main thrust of argument is to get it online so that nosy folks in Azerbaijan can have a deeks at what Mr Jones has displayed on his Lytham St. Annes mantelpiece…
"…the local knowledge to do this job well requires local people operating as agents… and that’s exactly what we offer. We have a team of regionally-based business owners – not employed staff – in 20 key locations across the country, with a further five per month on average currently being recruited and trained in the field.” Okay – that being the case, let me put the following scenario to you. It is hypothetical as I do not live where I am asking about – but NOT to the many thousands of prospective customers of your company. Champion. That being the case, please allow me to put to you the following REAL SCENARIO. I have a property within 5 miles of Durham City centre. Without naming names: 1. HOW CLOSE to my location does your "regionally-based business owner" (RBBO for short) live? 2. HOW CLOSE to my location does your RBBO work? 3. WHAT AREA does the RBBO cover? 4. WHAT EXPERIENCE does your RBBO have in selling property in MY location? 5. WHAT TRAINING has he/she received – who by, and when? I look forward to the answers to that one – as you say, it is "…not just about saving customers money, but the quality of service and experience they receive from us as experts in the field". But… if you don't want to answer, don't worry – the same questions were directed to a certain Mr Adam Day and to date his silence is deafening so I won't think any worse of you than I do him as a result.
Over to you, Mr Grove… I'm all EYEs ;o)
Pah-who cares? I just want to see what depths of insulting arrogance portalperson can reach. It seems to me that he main reason for existance is to somehow give credibility to these online Johnies who can't seem to make an impression on the selling public. I hope whoever is paying him £150/ hour feels they are getting their money's worth.
I CARE, Tike Nick! And judging by the passion in the posts of others – I'm far from alone. And if you are right about my prospective lunch partner, then perhaps 'PortalPerson' would like to respond on behalf of the onlines, as I seriously doubt I'll get anything more from Mr Grove than I did Mr Day…! ;o)
Easy property won't reply to the latest posts.
Portal Person will not respond to todays posts(about the industry).
Ben Grove will not respond to posts today(or ever I suspect).
It is a particular shame that Ben Grove of estatesdirect.com couldn't respond to comments made proving that he is far from "leading in the pursuit of change" and in fact, like the others above know absolutely NOTHING about professional agency online or otherwise.
Nice to see you two getting along! Nothing like a mutual cause to unite folks.
My problem with 'on-liners' is that their whole business plan seems to be based around slating agents that work on a no-sale-no-fee commission structure. There's plenty of business to go around; and there will always be customers who prefer the so called 'cheap' option. Those customers will hunt you out and list with you regardless. Instead of slating us all the time, why not just be honest and upfront with what you have to offer. Personally, I am always very put off by any business that seeks to promote itself by slagging off others.
Hear, hear, MF – but another prolific poster said to me a while ago on another subject something along the lines of "this is business, not tiddlywinks" in defence of one business doing what they can to get a competitive edge over another – which probably scored several 'Likes' from similar-minded posters – so I guess it can't be had both ways. But I completely agree – a poor business can ONLY win by playing down its (better) competition. The real shame is what I said recently – "The problem is that WE know it for what it is – but he is relying on SOME of the public reading and digesting it – and that if and when they market their property they remember the name of the company".
Ben Grove, claimed that the new wave of agents are taking the industry to the “next level”.
Can't argue with that, it's exactly how slate is formed; another distinct level at the bottom of the pond.
As for the the stamp of good practice; a traditional Sold board is all that is required. Enough said?
That's it…I've had enough…..this company is spouting utter nonsense…Yet another classic case of slag the "high st agent" to try and get the business whilst having absolutely nothing to say about their service (this is a service industry). You, Mr. Grove are also a liar. On your homepage you state
" Estate agents are not trying to sell houses through their branch windows nor through the property pages of local newspapers, they are simply advertising their brand to potential home SELLERS to receive more clients and hopefully more of those juicy fat commissions" PROVE IT.
And "Did you know that most Estate Agents will still charge you for not selling your property? It's true you will get stung for at least £500!" LIES, TELL US YOUR SOURCE for this claim. And "We offer a complete service, rivalling the best High Street agents" TELL US YOUR SERVICE because I don't believe you, bearing in mind you don't state what your "complete" service that rivals high st agents actually IS. I asked Easy Property (when their guy posted some nonsense the other day) to substantiate the claims on their homepage;" In true "easy" style we are going to shake up the UK property market to make buying, selling, renting and letting simple, quick and cost effective. This is what we do best" In spite of their claims to shake up the market and make property transactions really quick and simple…… they declined to reply because THEY DONT KNOW HOW THEY ARE GOING TO DO IT. Yes I am un characteristically angry today because, whilst I welcome new ideas and new competition in our industry, I can't stand these types of company that constantly snipe and lie about their opposition because THEY DONT BELIEVE THEY CAN SELL THEIR SERVICE ON ITS OWN MERITS and because of this they will FAIL.
Well said, wilko. And it needed to be said.
I like! go WILKO 😉
@wilko I wasn't aware in a competitive market I am obligated to share our business plans.
As a professional I won't take your comments to heart suffice to say we look forward to launching in the very near future and giving landlords a great big orange option to save a huge bundle of their money not to mention a raft of other services all at very competitive prices.
@smileplease given we haven't yet launched not sure how you can have such a strong view,perhaps if these pesky digital agents with their low prices,convenient and easy to use websites are causing you such angst you should go online yourself 🙂 I think its called a free market and the market will decide what is good value and what is not. Lookout for a big orange site opening very ,very soon ,you may need to lie down and take it easy.
By lie down and take it easy do you actually mean he should kick back and watch as you scrap it out with James Caan, Harry Hill et all for a share of 2% of the market?
I am looking forward to the reality show where an exaggerated camp, spray tanned neg hams it up and gets emo over Enid Bluerinse's ***** that will need rehoming if she sells her bungalow to move into a McCarthy& Stone Pearly gates reception centre.
@easyproperty Do you understand agency at all? or do they just employ you to make a pretty orange website and spout Digital and Savings! – Online agents are not cheap as I have stated previously in this thread. You all (and I wait to see if you are any different) charge a massive upfront fee compared to a traditional agent for what they offer free upfront. There is very little desire for a listing agent to sell or let a property as they are paid a large amount up front.
@ Easy Property…I didn't ask you your business plans. I asked you how YOU were going to make moving simpler and quicker, that's all. You can't make a claim/promise on your homepage you are going to make selling or renting a property quicker and more simple without saying how you are going to do it. Yet again you have given an answer without any substance whatsoever. Unless you plan on changing current property laws then you will be subject to the same laws that we all work to. So I ask you again….on behalf of your would be customers who have read your promises on your homepage "How are you going to make buying selling and renting quicker and simpler???" a simple question?
Sorry, must be something in the air today but I (like wilko) am also seeing a red mist before me…question: why does PIE allow ** like this to spout forth their self-serving drivel with no countervailing point of view/critical questioning? If PIE wants to give these idiots a platform why don't they charge them a fee, describe it as an advertorial and have done with it ? Grrrrrrrrrrr
Why print the story? Editorial independence; the whole point of PIE is to give balance and an opportunity for everyone’s viewpoint and take to be heard and aired. If it weren't for PIE there wouldn't be the ability for the counter argument to be posted or considered.
The trick with these baldrick reckonings is not to get angry and spend time bashing a keyboard, have a little chuckle and let them get on with it.
Save save save…… Save what?!!!! you are a national company with 20 self employed reps! And I am guessing quite a high turn over on these reps! How can 20 people service a nation? You are not estate agents. You may dress your company up as one but you are not. What you, hatched, emoove, purplebricks, easy property and such like are, are in fact listing agents. You take an up front fee stick it on the internet and hope it sells. And the poor vendor pays upfront and if it does not sell or the sale falls through they have lost their money! ANY business is about the staff, why would any agent that has experience and is good at their job give up a very conservative 30k a year role to go and work self employed? As I am sure they will need to "List" a lot of properties to achieve that. So you are left with either inexperienced or duff members of staff. The only saving a Hybrid or Online agent can give is on the staff. services offices and high street shops do not differ that much in rent! YOU DO NOT SAVE MONEY, YOU COST THE VENDOR MONEY!!!!!!!
Well said, PortalPerson. I'd join the debate, but Trevor hardly needs me to present him with yet another excuse to try and big up his little subbing operation. Ooops…! I would add, however, that although I recall listening to one top US real estate trainer at an NAR convention about 100 years ago, advising his audience not to take their BMWs or Caddies when visiting properties on the wrong side of the tracks, I'm not sure it has much validity over here. Perhaps Trevor could tell us what he drives? And how many "members" the INEA actually has?
@ Fencesitter – Im a family person so we drive a family car. For business I go to London a lot so the 140mph Ashford to St Pancras train does me well twice a week. Listed on little old INEA is near 500 agents around the UK and weve just spent a considerabal amount to take MLS/B2B agent sharing to a new dimension. the new site goes live very soon and will have a portal front. It embraces good old fashioned estate agency practice and is open to both B&M and online agents. What we wont let in is private sellers or private landlords or budget agents. The new site also breaks the restriants of the RM data feed
Sorry guys I am really on one today! I have just looked at the budget website. To provide pretty much what my agency provides these jokers would charge you £2085 UPFRONT PLUS VAT and a further £417 PLUS VAT once they have sold. My agency would charge £75 up front for an EPC and 1.5% plus vat of the eventual selling price. I only get paid if I sell the property. Theses jokers get paid almost £2500 even if they do not. So where is the saving?????? Sounds like a ****** big risk to me!
Fair play to the guy, the industry as a whole does need to be improved and moved into the future.
What do you think needs to be improved and moved into the future? – I bow to your knowledge as displayed on SEO the other day. But I do wonder how as estate agents we can improve and be moved into the future? I like to think of myself as a forward thinking progressive agent. I advertise in most forms, I employ a marketing company, I train my staff, I like to think I charge a fair fee and you only pay me should the property sells. Other than streamlining the conveyance or mortgage process which we cannot do, I am at a loss what else I can provide / offer? Happy to take on board suggestions!
Portal Person….this comment shows you are way out of your depth when it comes to agency knowledge, even though you are on the mark with seo etc.
I am happy to be proved wrong so can you expand and tell us how the guy you say "fair play" to is going to improve the industry and move the industry into the future?
Argh, PortalPerson you've done it again…….."the industry as a whole does need to be improved and moved into the future" You simply can't say things without backing them up so go on………….How can it be moved into the future? What needs doing to give agency the futuristic characteristics and features that todays or even tomorrows clients need (or you think they need?)………………….and please don't talk about Page rankings, meta, bounce rates and google pages or website functionality, as I've been thinking about your comments on agents websites and surely its people like you who are meant to be doing this right IN THE FIRST PLACE when I pay IT people to build my site………………what else needs doing?……(Don't tell me to blame my web people, I've decided to stick you in the same "needs improving bucket" as them, as I am sure you agree it is ok to tar all with the same brush)
I always laugh when you look up what cars many budget agency bosses drive:
EstatesDirect bosses Stephen Smith has a nice (non budget) Lambourghini – pictured below:
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2542908/The-house-Poundland-built-Entrepreneur-sold-company-50million-lives-luxury-13-bedroom-mansion-complete-swimming-pool-pub.html
And Darren Richards (part founder) shows on the web with 4-5 luxury cars and a helicopter: http://www.darrenrichards.com/background.aspx
Guys whats wrong with a more budget drive. Im sure a Skoda would get you from A to B
But I guess not all budget agency directors want a budget journey?
Roll on traditional fee models be they online only or B&M. A far better home sales journey than budget 🙂
So Trevor because they have made a success from their business means they MUST follow the budget principals and shop at Aldi and drive second hand cars to prove to you and the like that they truly embrace the budget model?
Business is business, people are free to make choices of what they spend their money on and the car they drive has absolutely nothing to do with how they operate a business.
So are you saying Aldi is worse than Sainsburys or TESCOs or Waitrose? Surley not, that would throw the whole budget vs better quality argument out the window. For sure – budget models have little fee in the pot. So if a budget agent doesnt have stock, not many proper agents who charge higher fees are likely to do split deals with them. Simply as budget agents can't collaborate back. True traditional agency can invite other agents to introduce additional applicants which can result in a vendor getting a higher bid. As such budget agents can cost vendors thousands or compromise introducing a less solid buyer, where a sub agent may bring a better buyer to the table.
Eric said: 'in fact, it’s more a case of putting customers’ properties ‘out there’ as far and wide as possible in the market place'
The best way to do this is by agents sharing the listings they feed up to RM and Z pre sending listings up to RM & Z. Budget agents can't do this as their fees are TOO LOW to allow sub comms. Portals can only show what agents send them. If agents showed their own plus other agents listings on their own websites days before RM or Z then traditional agents would hinder both budget agents and portals.
The main barrier to agents sharing was the adoption of the single direction RM data feed structure. As agents listed for free for the first 2 years. Agents were adopting a data schema by insisting their softwares fed RM.
Also the biggest change needed in Estate Agency is the 1979 Estate Agents Act, Many regulators such as HMRC for money laundering and Trading Standards see it as base legislation. In its title its now 35 years old and needs updating. Its updating could close many side line budget cowboy agents and also pull portals into creater estate agency regulation in favour of consumers and better agency.