Purplebricks this morning said trading since the start of its new financial year on May 1 has been “very encouraging”, with little discernible impact following the EU referendum.
For the period, instructions are up 121% year on year, and have continued to grow month on month, culminating in 3,156 instructions in August.
Market share in online estate agency has risen to 65%.
There are now 300 local property experts, with recruitment ahead of plan and on target to achieve 360 by next April.
The firm reported in a trading update ahead of today’s AGM: “Superior customer service is at the heart of our proposition and we continue to be the most positively reviewed estate agent in the industry with a rating of excellent and 9.3 out of 10.0 from over 7,800 independent Trustpilot reviews.
“The launch of Purplebricks Australia in late August is progressing very well and has been executed on time and within budget.
“Early indications from the first two weeks are very encouraging, with the number of valuations substantially ahead of the UK business at the same point in its development.
“The company is well funded with over £28m of cash and is on course to meet the board’s full year expectations, with the UK business moving into profitability this financial year.”
Meanwhile, Zoopla is holding its first Capital Markets Day for analysts and investors this afternoon at 2pm in London.
The event will be hosted by CEO Alex Chesterman and Andy Botha, CFO, and will feature presentations from the ZPG executive team.It will also provide the opportunity to hear more about ZPG’s new products and services.
No new material information or update on trading will be provided, Zoopla said this morning.
Comments (142)
“I am simply stating that the Internet and technology help to achieve maximum exposure much quicker than any outdated estate agency methods.”
HELP to achieve? – yes.
They don’t achieve it themselves.
Much quicker? – no. There ARE people (that’s “consumers” to you…) that don’t use the worldwide web and/or associated ‘technology’.
You just never get to meet them in your restrictive line of work.
What you refer to as “maximum exposure” cannot be not achieved without all the other “outdated estate agency methods” – which you have NO ACCESS to.
Putting forward a winning argument isn’t exactly your strong point – is it?
Are your Vendors (I repeat – that’s “consumers” to you…) aware of that little but hugely significant for them factoid?
Is it me or does “TheHybridAgent” come across as a pro web only agent. Hybrid are high street agents using the web are they not? and the ones he’s constantly knocking!
Just you,
Hybrids use technology and a much more personal service to their advantage. I am simply stating that the Internet and technology help to achieve maximum exposure much quicker than any outdated estate agency methods.
Who’s staying up to be first off the blocks with EYE’s first-hand report on the AGM tomorrow morning?
We’re still waiting for that little cork to pop!
northagent87: “I’m just surprised at how petty this argument has gotten, Grammer correcting? Come on…”
Mark Walker: “*Grammar.”
I’m in frickin’ bits!!
Mr Walker – YOU OWE ME A KEYBOARD!! ;o)
I know you’re not supposed to laugh at your own jokes, but I was in pieces at that too.
I am literally gobsmacked by the comments on this page, what happened to agents having friendly competition? This is literally a slanging match between high street and online. At the end of the day, don’t figures and customer satisfaction speak for itself – are you doing well? Yes? Great. I can’t understand why high street agents won’t just embrace change & sit comfortably where they belong, on the high street. This isn’t to say I’m an avid ‘Hybrid’ Agent enthusiast I just honestly think this is rediculous. I’m a high street agent and couldn’t think of anything more boring than arguing with an online agent about what is different – unfortunately, if you like it or not, Estate Agency has changed & will continue to change, that’s down to a number of factors, RM & Z being one of them – that’s not saying consumers won’t choose the High Street Agents anymore, however the likes of PB are now competitors in the same game. We are all aware of that, but continue to do as we would have done with any other competitor. In my area – and I say this because it all differs – the main concern from consumers is fee, it’s normally one of the first questions asked when a Val is being booked – why wouldn’t it be? It’s a fair question… And i answer as I normally would – with our usual fee, which hasn’t dropped because the like of PB are now in the market – however I do know agents locally that are matching fees – again silly of them to do so.
Im not saying that we shouldn’t ‘fight’ against the ‘Hybrid’ agent, I’m just surprised at how petty this argument has gotten, Grammer correcting? Come on…
I wouldn’t start arguing if another agent opened up on the street we operate from, so why start biting from one comment? Isn’t that what the likes of PB wants? Agents reactions? Well that’s certainly what they are getting…
Good Luck All! May your Friday’s be filled with completions!
It isn’t about arguing it is about correcting publicity that does not stand scrutiny.
I am fairly certain if an agent local to you started claiming anything you knew not to be true on a consistent and prolonged basis there would come a time when you would say something.
This lot have reckoned an awful lot but have yet to deliver a penny profit let alone the HUGE profits promised
*Grammar.
Thanks Mark, appreciate it 🙂
“I am literally gobsmacked by the comments on this page, what happened to agents having friendly competition?”
Friendly competition is fine, healthy, benefits everyone and is to be welcomed.
What is not friendly, acceptable or permissible is those agents (and I wish to emphasise that I am not referring to any one agent in particular here) who continually mislead consumers in their advertising, using logos to deceive consumers that they have full membership of approved bodies when they do not, making unsubstantiated or deliberately false and factually incorrect claims about numbers of listings, sale times and effectiveness or, who fail to follow fundamental basic laws of estate agency and may even be committing fraud.
That some of these firms (and portals) are now under regular and close scrutiny by the ASA, Trading Standards, HMRC and some of the most respected names in broadsheet finance and property journalism is testament to the fact that some of the new entrants to estate agency are attempting to to seek illegal and unfair advantages and are deliberately attempting to deceive consumers.
Will SOMEBODY please join AgentV’s working group!!!
I am going to offer him the 18 months analysis and development plus the 15 months of data that is already being shared with National newspapers and industry regulators, that will save him paying to duplicate about £1.3m of cost to date.
Robert
Just a thought. What is the word on the street about ‘Prime Vacation’ are enough agents subscribing yet?
Prime vacation? my head is so deep in an ‘IT problem’ (denial of service attack lasting 85 days) I’m a bit vague on a few things right now.
See my comment above
Eamonn …I read your comment and think you may be having some thoughts that coincide with my own …although I have to admit I didn’t follow your google adwords analysis completely. I would love to hear the rest of what you’re thinking. Could you contact me on hiphip@agentv.co.uk?
Eamonn …I read your comment and think you may be having some thoughts that coincide with my own …although I have to admit I didn’t follow your google adwords analysis completely. I would love to hear the rest of what you’re thinking. Could you contact me on hiphip at agentv.co.uk?
Just ticked like as you made me laugh. I guess I am coming across as being desperate to get this group going. Well, that’s because I think I might have an answer….but I can’t just broadcast it out to everyone… because it needs a little initial preparation and stealth to help it work.
That was PeeBee’s comment that made me genuinely laugh by the way.
The answer already exists , several of them in fact. Evidencing and proving portal juggling was the first in a series of breaches of laws and regulations being broken my multiple agents of differing business models.
As Chris Wood pointed out a lot of work has already been done by some very influential and respected people within the industry. I suggest you contact Chris who is a focus of what is being achieved but more importantly documented and shared with journalists of major broadsheet newspapers. They are taking a keen and serious interest in the flip side of a carefully crafted story.
“I can calculate the movement of stars, but not the madness of men.” Isaac Newton,after losing his life savings on the South Sea Company
I agree with much of what has been said in these postings. How about we form a co-operative of many like minded independent agents? I would be willing to take part in the research of PB listings v sales and at what price with some added inside information. However I would either need a group of other people to help me, or the financial backing to do it at the expense of working on fewer instructions in my own agency. How about we initialise a working group of independents to start the process. Let’s start fighting back rather than just moaning …before it is too late!! Any volunteers?
Personal anecdotes….
Have had somebody in this recently trying to sell me radio advertising, never done it before and those agents that I have heard ( which is not often only have commercial radio on in the car if the kids are with me ) basically to my ear sound corny, that said and as I explained to the rep if it was free of course I’d take it and try and come up with a non corny ad, but it’s not free, I have to at least break even on the spend to even consider it, PB do not operate, yet, with these constraints they are burning shareholders cash, I spend money I’ve earned and it’s a choice whether to speculate or trouser ( or skirt ) it……. Yesterdays chip paper I know but it’s the same as BHS, Phillip wriggled away, Dominic took the opportunity to enrich himself with a couple of Mil loans that will never be repaid and didn’t he pay off his dads mortgage or something? Must of been dreadful doing the mea culpa when your check balance at the cashpoint shows 7 figures, its other peoples money, those who bought the shares and those who have paid upfront, I would imagine it’s easy doing business that way……….
Mate of mine runs an online agency in another part of the country to me, been going about 7 years tend to run with around 15-20 fully available, pipeline of 6 or 7 and a few rentals, modest but enough to give him some freedom and pay the bills, fee structure is traditional no sale no fee 1-1.5%, with some referral income, when he goes on holiday for a couple of weeks each August I take over for him, divert the phone to my mobile and I log in to his alto, I make it through and it’s quite interesting in it’s own way with different sorts of problems to those on my patch, disused mines/substandard foundations due to slag from those mines being used 100yrs ago as base/sea air rotting wall ties etc…. I’m always glad to give it back though, this year I’ve had calls as late as 11.45pm and as early as 6.35am ( didn’t take them, jeez ) and it’s 7 days a week, I’ve noticed in this thread a couple of references to experienced staff taking PB patches, good luck with that and bring it on, to genuinely compete on my ‘patch’ rather than across ‘our region’ needs a team, I burn you out if you do it properly and your reputation suffers if you list and hunt the next listing without looking after your existing clients who, if you’re on my patch, I or one of my team will be talking to regularly…
Hi htsnom79. Please have a look at the comment I posted above in reply to WestLondonAgent97. Would you like to join forces to start the working group?
I do wonder if the anecdotal evidence of impressive instruction to sales ratios is down to the fact that if a vendor pays money up front then they are presumably reasonably serious in their intent to sell. Maybe the quality of the instructions PB are picking up is actually better than many other trad agents?
I’ve always thought it foolish of the industry as a whole to give away free valuations and to list properties without some sort of registration fee. If something costs nothing it tends not to be valued by the recipient as highly as if they have paid something for it.
The fact that PB and others are apparently gaining some traction tends to indicate that the public are not actually quite so adverse to stumping up money up-front as agents may have thought/think.
When I worked for a corporate and we charged up front for professional photography or enhanced marketing packages we nodo pay noticed that the listings to sales ratio was much higher than those without and packages.
So those that part with cash up front, are more likely to be motivated to sell as they won’t want to waste their money. it’s not rocket science at all.
Exactly right it’s not rocket science… Consumers that make the decision to use hybrid agents are more motivated.
Not just “Testing” the market using a no sale no fee agent.
Their claim of customer service superiority versus the highstreet may be true, but they are behind House Network and eMoov who bothhave better ratings on TrustPilot and, particularly, all other reviewsites.One wonders what else in their statements is therefore alsoexaggerated? Particularly as it seems that PurpleBricks report every single poorreview as ‘non compliant’ so that they are removed from theiraggregate score on Trust Pilot.
Hi GB40. Please have a look at the comment I posted above in reply to WestLondonAgent97. Would you like to join forces to start the working group?
Fact is, keep them off your own patch. We have them trying to gain foothold in ours and they have got 0.5% of those areas. We have had to deal a couple of times when the vendor has mentioned “PB can do it for X” but weve never gone down to their fee level. If we get called out to them we win – FACT. So we are only concerned with the ones that dont call us out. Having spoken to two of these vendors afterwards they both said were woeful. They were horrfied by the service and said they would never use them again and tell their friends not to.
So when that starts spreading around the towns we work in they will stop getting called out eventually so the rot will stop.
Localagent201625. Im not sure I believe your post anyway but for what its worth dont be ridiculous!
Hi inthefield. Please have a look at the comment I posted below in reply to WestLondonAgent97. Would you like to join forces to start the working group?
I’m contemplating the move across to PB, best mate of mine works there and is doing excellent and has recommended me to them, looks positive but i’m still a little sceptical when the market does eventually turn and becomes a lot more difficult.
Decisions decisions.
They take your money to list your house not sell your house.
Trading standards should be ashamed of themselves for not closing down these operations or forcing them to explain to clients what they are – a listing call center NOT estate agents.
Fortunately we deal with properties in areas where the vast bulk of our customers are intelligent and very property savvy, hence why PB will never take off here – our clients can see them for the wolf in sheep clothing they are.
Come on PB you want to be referred to as an estate agent grow some balls and offer a no sale no fee strategy – then lets see how you perform!
bluebird
Fortunately we deal with properties in areas where the vast bulk of our customers are intelligent and very property savvy, hence why PB will never take off here – our clients can see them for the wolf in sheep clothing they are.
Are you saying anyone who signs up with PB isn’t intelligent?
What an utterly ridiculous head in the sand statement.
Ben, whilst your sentiment is admirable, not every LPE is there just to take your money list your house and then move onto the next one. I just think that there’s an element of worry about PB becoming a rather successful business and agent.
It ISN’T beyond the realms of possibility that your typical high street agent and hybrid agent can co-exist.
Hi Benbird. Please have a look at the comment I posted below in reply to WestLondonAgent97. Would you like to join forces to start the working group?
Drove from Cardiff to Bournemouth yesterday going through a number of rural villages (where I thought PB would not be so strong) and I counted (from brief glances when I saw a board), 26 in total with 7 being PB (and they were spread across the drive)
3,156 instructions in August or “3,156” instructions in August?
Hi Mark. Please have a look at the comment I posted above in reply to WestLondonAgent97. Would you like to join forces to start the working group?
Gosh….what an ‘outstanding’ achievement. During 35 years in estate agency, August has never once been one of, or possibly the best of my own listing months?
When is PB’s AGM?
Hi Thomas. Please have a look at the comment I posted above in reply to WestLondonAgent97. Would you like to join forces to start the working group?
Whilst there will no doubt be spoof testimonials among the 7000 Trustpilot reviews only the most cynical would try to claim that there aren’t a very high proportion of satisfied PB clients in that number. Like or not, there are sellers who are happy to sign up up with PB and sellers who are happy with the service. And that number appears to be growing.
Many of the points put against PB ie., not responding quickly to chain enquiries, not achieving the best possible price etc., are just as true of some traditional agents and it is easy to paint one poor experience as being the norm. Especially if you are blinkered anti PB.
I don’t know how efficient PB are throughout their organisation but I do know that expanding a company so quickly, with so many new staff, will not instantly produce a company that runs at 100% from the off. There will be a huge amount of lessons being learnt and I would expect that management are constantly adapting and improving their systems and service.
PB are following the classic ‘first adopter’ route of rapid expansion, at the expense of profit if necessary, to make it as hard as possible for a ‘me too’ to come along and take their now dominant market position. How profitable they become is to be seen, but not making a profit since launch is not in itself a negative. It is actually part of the route to where they want to be. With £28M in cash, up front fees flowing in and with the possibility of raising further capital, I doubt that cash flow is an issue.
Given that PB have raced past other longer established onliners I think it can’t be denied that there is method in what many believe is madness. Treating PB with utter contempt and ignoring how they may affect the market as they continue to expand could turn out to be an own goal.
If you include in your “bumps along the way” that they were found to be trading completely illegally…
One small point to bear in mind with these testimonials, is that they are taken at the time of instruction. Take a look at some of the reviews of people who have gone through to completion (or not as the case may be) on Facebook etc. They tell a different story.
Hi Winny. Please have a look at the comment I posted above in reply to WestLondonAgent97. Would you like to join forces to start the working group?
We can’t ignore the fact that PB have many satisfied customers. With the financial backing, marketing and focus on increasing their LPEs throughout the country. PB are gaining large momentum in the market and becoming a household brand.
The majority of their instructions are fresh to market. Proving the marketing together with the feedback from previous customers is working.
Consumers are starting to recognise PB as a household brand…
Every company has bumps. It’s how we grow.
‘We can’t ignore the fact that PB have many satisfied customers.’ – evidence for this? Have you read the online forums?
‘With the financial backing, marketing and focus on increasing their LPEs throughout the country. PB are gaining large momentum in the market and becoming a household brand.’ – burning their way through £ms to gain traction. This level of investment cannot continue long term, there is insufficient margin in the ‘sale’ to justify it.
‘The majority of their instructions are fresh to market.’ – What does this even mean?
‘Consumers are starting to recognise PB as a household brand…’ – evidence for this?
‘Every company has bumps. It’s how we grow.’ – What does this even mean?
‘The majority of their instructions are fresh to market.’ – What does this even mean?
The modern consumer is searching elsewhere for a better solution to the outdated traditional model. Choosing hybrid over traditional.
A high percentage of properties listed by high street agents have just swapped from the other agent next door.
Look at Google Analitics. Purplebricks is the most googled estate agent in the country. The brand is building.
All new companies will add and change to their model as they grow. Companies will only know what needs changing by coming up against bumps on the way.
So you’re a PB ‘Local Property Expert‘ I take it?
Who has audited the numbers?
Hmmm… I’m no auditor – but I ‘watch’ their listings like a hawk watches a rat!
According to Zoopla the ‘Last 30 days’ “listings” as I look at the screen now total stands at 2719 – which is +/- 50 units where it has been all month. I don’t keep individual daily tallies so can’t confirm what Z figure was on 1/9/16 (they seem to run behind RM when listing) – but the Z figure also includes an element of #relisted homes.
Hi Robert and PeeBee. Please have a look at the comment I posted above in reply to WestLondonAgent97. Would you like to join forces to start the working group?
Surely if you’re busy you wouldn’t have time to watch your hybrid competition like a hawk…
It’s something called competitive analysis !
“Surely if you’re busy you wouldn’t have time to watch your hybrid competition like a hawk…”
You have me all wrong. I don’t watch ‘competition’ like a hawk. I know exactly where my competition were…are – and will be at any articular point.
That’s called ‘knowing your market.
I only ‘watch’ those who seem to need watching.
For your information, I do the vast majority of it between the hours of 1900 and 0700 – and most weekends.
Do you have a problem with that?
If so, should we assume you one of those who is aware I am watching?
Of course they are, probably recently joined all moist at the thought of being an expert (not a neg) and self employed with their own VAT number, professional indemnity insurance ICO registration and client liability for everything they do or utter on a rolling 6 year basis.
Of course not it’s great you’re doing your research after 7pm of an evening.
During the same time the hybrid agents are taking advantage of the change in consumer habits.
You should save all your postings until after 9pm.
Your spelling and grammar seem to have caught up with basic standards of acceptability by then…
Biggest issue – they get paid on listings. Try to get a Purplebricks agent on the phone when you do a chain check – not interested! I had one PB client in my office with a related chain to mine for best part of an hour as I took her through a process that was absolutely alien to her and to which the agent had given no guidance or information.
As its paid for listings, they are also listing properties that they don’t effectively need to sell, distorting the reality for a seller who ‘trusts’ their brand and wants an agent to just do as they say as opposed to be guided.
The danger is of course is that this coupled with Countrywide’s new ‘retail’ strategy means in 10-15 years this is the norm of estate agency as traditional agency tries to make to blur the boundaries to appease shareholder’s worry over future profitability.
What I think needs to happen (and it no doubt won’t) but is for the large companies who want to be a ‘traditional’ agency (and we will know the difference) get together and form a marketing group that purely promotes physical offices, agents, good marketing etc and how the public ends up with more money in their back pocket.
For me the first commissions of this marketing co-operative would be to a research company to find out how many PB listings have a) sold b) if so at what deduction from original asking price and c) we start to commission own market research into asking their clients would they use them again – as everyone who I have come across won’t !
Hi West London Agent 97. I agree with much of what you have said. Rather than larger companies…. how about a co-operative of many like minded independent agents? I would be willing to take part in the research of listings v sales and at what price with some added inside information. However I would either need a group of other people to help me, or the financial backing to do it at the expense of working on fewer instructions in my own agency. How about we initialise a working group of independents to start the process. Let’s start fighting back rather than just moaning …before it is too late!! Any volunteers?
This idea will fail quicker than On The Market thinking they could take down RM & Z.
Great…I love being told things wont work or wont happen.
It has been running for over 12 months and we have been paying our own bills and achieving results. There is well over 2 gb of data which evidences that the numbers claimed in this story are different to those that can be counted on the portalsPerhaps that simply means some properties (about 16%) aren’t being listed and so can’t be counted.
There is already a working group of agents (large and small, as well as industry suppliers) who would welcome your support. The numbers are being audited by one of the top data people in the industry (before his internet supply suffered an inexplicable and serious series of problems) and the NTSEAT are being kept up to date with any discrepancies that we find with any of the agents we are monitoring or are made aware of.
The best way for any agent reading this who is fed up with false claims and dodgy statistics etc, is to write to their local TSO and make a formal complaint giving detailed evidence and citing appropriate legislation (CPR, Fraud etc.). If the claim or action is likely to obtain money by deception, cause a “transactional decision” in the mind of a consumer or, if the business concerned is seeking to obtain a genuinely unfair advantage over its competitors, they will take action.
In fairness – this is not another On The Market idea, given it would not be trying to ‘take down’ Rightmove or Zoopla. I view it more of a pressure group idea similar I think to ‘Newsworks’ that protects print advertising.
On The Market would not be the team to lead it. It divides as opposed to unites, and unfortunately with 12 members of staff and a decreasing market share I am not the agent to lead it.
Its going to take an industry heavyweight who is not greatly exposed to the ‘hybrid market’ , and will take agents paying a monthly subscription to this fund (managed by 3/4 agents) for a media agency to run a campaign.
I sympathise that someone has had IT difficulties to get the figures in order, but this is the kind of incident that shows why deep pockets are needed not a cost conscious approach.
Chris, in case you had not considered see below
Thomas Flowers
SEPTEMBER 16, 2016 AT 8:02 PM
Woodentop, consider what you have just posted…….that is brilliant!
So do on line only, call centre, upfront fee agents contravene the Estate Agency Act as by charging upfront fees, whether it sells or not, breach this act as it is plainly obvious that they may not be acting in the best interest of their seller clients as it does not effect PB whether a property sells or not, let alone at the best possible price (see ajax buyer review on previous PB posting).
Call me stupid but has this act ever been changed to consider the on line, up front fee revolution?
This Act does make absolute sense!
Just so I’m on the same page.
You want to start a collective of traditional agents, sharing best practice and marketing ideas between each other. After you’ve all high fived each other and left. Agents will just undercut each other’s fee to win the business. You will all have the same marketing so that is all that will be left to make you different to the next agent.
Analysing PB data is not going to change the way traditional agents operate or make them any better. If anything, it will just make you realise just how much momentum they’re actually gathering.
If you believe that consumers don’t like the hybrid model and the way it operates. Then surely they will make their own judgement on which model works best for them.
You know its funny because a few years ago I started as a hybrid – running my local patch but from an office in an office block.
I had to slowly increase my fees because there was no money in it. Once I’d increased my fees my clients started wanting more from me so I gave them more… I hired more staff (part time of course). The next step I took was to get the staff on board full time, and because we were delivering better service I increased my fees again. Finally my clients began to wonder why I didn’t have offices, was I really THAT good? YES I was but there was much less confidence in me so I opened a lovely expensive office in the heart of MY city. my fees were £699 when a hybrid – they stand at 1.8% now on EVERY sale and I never negotiate on my fees.
It is weird the way things work out – and Hybrid is hard work for low pay,
My clients get what they pay for and those who think they cant afford my services like to come back after they haven’t sold with other agents.
‘Hybrid is hard work for low pay‘ Nail. Hit. On. The. Head. What do you make of that TheHybridAgent?
So you say your clients get what they pay for…
So they’re paying for your expensive office that they never visit.
“So they’re paying for your expensive office that they never visit.”
I wonder why some twenty thousand branch locations exist – surely not just to nullify your argument?
The people who ‘own’ these branches in the main spend more in a year than you will probably ever earn in the same period – but consider it to be money well spent… or we’d all be working out of bedrooms/studies/off dining tables/out of the car (delete as applicable).
On the 4th day of my office opening we had a lovely lady walk in
She asked me if we had anything in the £1m price bracket, we spoke, I showed her a property. She said she didn’t like the ones she saw online that we had.
She bought one off me, she hated the look of it online but fell in love when she saw it. She would have missed it without the visit to my office
The office just paid for itself!
If the property was marketed correctly she would have liked exactly what she seen on the portal.
I’d love to compare your marketing to mine.
It’s a million pound house those that had 2 rooms with wooden beams across the ceiling and she hated wooden beams. That’s why she didn’t jump at it.
If you were marketing the same property she wouldn’t even have talked to you because I very much doubt you’d have thought to ONLY include the photos without wooden beams. Office 1 – Hybrid 0
Would you have really left all those lovely photos to one side just in case someone didn’t like beams? I really cant see how you could possibly answer yes to this but please do.
oh and by the way if you would like to compare marketing then please link one of your ‘well marketed’ properties in here and I will happily give it a glance and tell you honestly what I think. I’m not perfect by any means but i’d like to see what a well marketed property looks like from you.
If any of us threw the amount of money into something you would expect it to be doing at least these numbers. Its still not that impressive. When the money runs out they will have to have a great deal of momentum with them to keep the machine running. One bump in the road and it will be curtains. Wheres the bit about profit in the article? They said previously they would be in profit by now so this is just another false dawn.
As far as Thehybridagents comments are concerned I dont know that there are that many big hitters going to work for PB, if any. They are from what Ive seen, chancers. I don’t think any self respecting agent would lower themselves, especially ones who were at senior management levels.
Adapting to change within an industry you truelly believe in is smart.
When the very consumers that pay your bills habits change. We have to change with them.
Hybrids have done the industry a huge favour. High street agents now have to run a tighter ship. Many have become complaisant over the years.
*truly
What level of grammar do you expect for around £500 per instruction? I think you’re being perhaps a little harsh.
Missed one: complacent.
Hi Inthefield. Please have a look at the comment I posted below in reply to WestLondonAgent97. Would you like to join forces to start the working group?
Do you not think if the market did change that consumers would be more likely to use at a Hybrid agent due to how cost effective it is?
What I’d really like PB to be transparent about is their list to sell ratio. Any muppet can list a property but it takes a real agent to sell it (and at the best possible price in the market). My business wouldn’t survive on listings alone, of course that’s where we differ.
So come on PB, let’s be hearing about your actual sales / completed transactions. How successful are you at being an agent and not just mugging people off for £800 upfront?
Couldn’t have put it better myself.
They take a handsome sum of money to market properties, selling them is just a bonus and nothing more.
We don’t make money unless we sell, where is their incentive, sooner vendors appreciate this the better.
Coorporate agents have been charging marketing fees upfront for many years.
So yes agents do take money before the sell!
“some” agents do take money before they sell
the vast majority don’t.
Hi Andrew and James. Please have a look at the comment I posted below in reply to WestLondonAgent97. Would you like to join forces to start the working group?
Mate of mine averages 18 instructions a month, and is selling 88% of his listings.
Now, that’s not a barometer to go by the whole company, as the area he works the market is still very kind to Agents and literally listing decent houses online will get the job done.
You should be looking at no more than 20% fall through. The best only achieve around 8% to 10%. 20% to 30% can blip short term but should not be the norm for the year and needs investigating. 30% to 40% something is seriously wrong. Over 40% sack the staff, your not in control!
So are you saying the negotiators, usually being the least experienced member of staff within the office is more likely to get a higher figure than an agent working at a hybrid?
I certainly am, they put more effort in, talk to the client first, have a door to walk through and of course what about all those people not using the web ….. oh yes they do exist but you wouldn’t know that.
Hybrid is a high street agent that uses the web! You seem focused on calling Hybrid as if it is only on-line!
??? Market share in online estate agency has risen to 65%.
Aren’t all agents online?
Interesting to see the WHICH research saying only 4 in 10 properties found on main portals reach SSTC as in PIE this month: http://www.propertyindustryeye.com/half-buyers-find-old-fashioned-methods-effective-portals/
90% might start their search online is like saying 80% go to viewings by car – so what. ….
The value in portals appears to becoming less pro rata to annual subscription increases. As such budget agents are looking more like an expensive option for sellers wanting greater exposure to the other 6 in 10 buyers budgets appear to be missing.
All said I know online only and traditionals that pool together to do better for clients than any lone agent could do be they traditional or online only.
And how many of those SSTC actually sold. We all know that many an agents missuses SSTC and I can recall one major player who’s staff had a fall through rate of 60% at one time.
“Interesting to see the WHICH research saying only 4 in 10 properties found on main portals reach SSTC…”
Mr Mealham – that’s NOT what the ‘report’ said.
Play fair.
I’m sure this won’t come as a shock to most. PB have been recruiting at an astronomical rate. Filling every town and city in the country.
Highly experienced ex high street agents coming from senior management levels and competing against their previous companies directly.
High street agents will find it extremely difficult to fill the roles with the same level of experience.
Not only are the hybrids taking market share rapidly. They’re ripping apart the very teams that made the high streets successful in the first place.
Not sure that a highly experienced, but more importantly, successful high street agent would leave to join a hybrid. So, not exactly ripping apart the team. Those that don’t fit into the team culture at any high street agency are not missed. They are better off working on their own – and the agency they left is certainly better off without them.
The hybrid model is a ‘house of cards’ that relies on shallow-thought from disgruntled agents and whilst these hybrids may claim to have 300 local agents, how many have they lost over the years. The cost of recruiting and training is generally a major factor in any business. Unless, of course, it isn’t.
A highly experienced and successful agent will and do notice the changes within the companies they work in. They’re only as good as the model they work under. Which unfortunately is majorly flawed or Hybrids wouldn’t be taking the market as rapidly as the are.
Do you not think the majority of the staff being recruited are approaching these companies themselves. Making the cost for recruitment irrelavent.
If you believe adapting to the change in consumer habits is a shallow and disgruntled trail of thought. I would hate to think what the trail of thought behind hanging on to outdated methods of estate agency is.
How would you account for a 16.07% discrepancy in the numbers claimed in this story and those that can be counted on the portals?
There is a question mark over at least 437 properties as well as those that appear and disappear at the beginning and the end of each month.
OI!!
Mr May has asked a very pertinent question and you seem to have gone all coy and silent-type on him?
Cat got your tongue- or can’t you bring yourself to answer the inevitable?
Just because the properties don’t appear as live or Under Offer/SSTC doesn’t mean they haven’t been instructed, buyer found and removed from marketing. They would only appear as archived instead of live
Bounce that one across me again, please…
Hi agency negotiation limited. Please have a look at the comment I posted below in reply to WestLondonAgent97. Would you like to join forces to start the working group?
@ TheHybridAgent
Recent WHICH research showed 4 in 10 homes found on portals reach SOLD stc.
To me that appears quite a void to overcome by cheaper to list online only agents. Other research shows vendors can be substantially better off by using more traditional agency marketing to compliment what portals do.
In 2-3 years budget agents my have been a glitch being part of money raising efforts by VCs reaching 5 year exits.
With cheaper budgets popping up weekly, many are bleating ‘we can save you £100’s compared to the £500+ online only lister agents.
Cheap list agents should be careful of what they wish for. They may fall foul of tomorrows cheaper lister.
High street agents are all offering the same service as the next with the only way to gain business being to lower their fees. This has been happening way before hybrid agents came into the equation.
If high street agents genuinely believe that outdated methods of estate agency out way any modern methods. Why don’t they all cancel their portal memberships. Lets see whose still standing in a year.
*Who’s
Congrats. You have finally found your true vocation as an LPE, if you think that all high street agents are the same and only compete on price. As mentioned elsewhere, shallow thought on your part, together with lack of all the information that might have persuaded you to choose a better option. Are all the Purple Bricks agents the same. If not, what differentiates them? . High street agents are substantially different, although many do not realise how and why they are different.
All high streets are the same and it has taken something as simple and effective as the hybrid model for consumers to realise.
Agents don’t fear another high street agent opening next door to them. Offering consumers a introductory fee to get themselves off the ground. Because they know after a few months it will all return to normal again.
Agents do fear the rise of the hybrid because every month the market share that the traditional agents all once had is being torn apart.
Consumers have a choice and you can’t argue with the amount of consumers making the choice to use the hybrid agents.
“If high street agents genuinely believe that outdated methods of estate agency out way any modern methods. Why don’t they all cancel their portal memberships. Lets see whose still standing in a year.”
You mean outweigh, surely?
Yup – all in favour of turning off t’interweb and going back to actual personal interaction.
When you’re ready, willing and able, pal – we’re ready.
Bring.
It.
On.
Looks like you’re on your own pal.
Good luck… You’ll need it
‘Looks like you’re on your own pal.’
Of course I’d be on my own – you and your ‘online’ brethren couldn’t survive a week without the only tool you have in your kit.
Tell me – honestly – what would you be able to bring to the table for a vendor if the worldwide web was to go into meltdown for a week?
hybrids would have access to the exact same database of buyers as the high street. They all come from the same sources. Hybrids do still use phones.
Please don’t come back with you have a book of special buyers from the queues of people you get waiting to register every day outside your shiny office.
Im guessing by the use of full naming “Worldwide Web” you wear a pin stripe suit and in your mid 50s.
I have never worn a pinstripe suit in my life – and certainly don’t intend to start when I enter my mid 50’s… which in fairness won’t be long.
My use of correct terminology may not suit you – but without it, the ‘online’ bit of Estate Agency is dead in the water.
For people like you, that’s a bl00dy big “bit” of what you are.
Sorry but.
Hi Trevor. Please have a look at the comment I posted below in reply to WestLondonAgent97. Would you like to join forces to start the working group?
Am I missing something? 3,156 instructions with an average fee of £800 = £2.5m turnover. 300 agents at an average salary of £20k pa = £6m pa. Where exactly is the profit??
You certainly are missing something… Research
PB charge different fees in different parts of the country.
You have also missed a fundamental part of your calculations… Referral fees
TheHybridAgent
PB charge TWO fee levels in England & Wales. Scotland fees will be different again but more cost to the Agent I assume (unless all the add-ons are done as chargeable items…)
PB last quoted average value per listing as £1080 – equating to £900 without the VAT element – and it was unclear as to whether that was fee only or actual revenue per property – which seems more likely.
So much for the lucrative add-ons you refer to…
…peanuts is still peanuts.
Referrals make up a large portion of any estates agents income…
Do let me get this right….to make a living you run around doing PB bidding for a small fee on the optimism that get an opportunity to cross sell.
OMG your HEADS GONE…..chap
Hi Boomer95 and Eamonn. Please have a look at the comment I posted below in reply to WestLondonAgent97. Would you like to join forces to start the working group?
HI AgentV
Im very flattered and I will give the opportunity some thought this evening,
Quick question or seed for thought.
A google pay per click ad costs approx. £1.70 – £.5.30 for the search term local estate agent. Plus other similar searches.
How many clicks do you think it would take google to earn £500,000 from the search term “local estate agent”
and how many related search terms and clicks do you think it will take for google to earn …. say £1m
and how many estate agents work in the uk?
And how many people would be in their circle of friends and family with independent IP addresses.
And do you think Google will spend all the monthly budget set by the advertiser if it provides the clicks?
IF only someone could, would or should……………………
can I just say TheHybridAgent –
NOT ONE penny of my income is made up of referral fees and I couldn’t care less if I was missing a huge income stream my recommendations are what is BEST for my buyers and sellers not what is best for my pockets. I work solely in the interests of my clients
WE have had 8 bunches of flowers delivered this week from different clients. Can tell me the last time that you got a Thank You card (the personal touch)? probably never had one…
All you have told me by that comment is your core business is a means to a referral bank, you are essentially farming data and selling it to the highest bidder. How is this what is best for the client?
POOR SHOW!!
HEAR HEAR, Clarkuk!
Someone had to say it…
If you had read the thread I was commenting on before you decided add your say. You would realise it was regarding income that was being calculated. Only adding the sales fee and missing out any other income streams even lettings.
So you’re saying you as a business don’t get kick backs for…
Mortgages
EPC’s
Solicitors
Surveys
Gas Certs
Electric Certs
I find that extremely difficult to believe. It is a business after all and in the clients best interest for you to recommend people you know, trust and have dealt with in the past.
I have had many gifts in my 15 years in the industry. Still to this day I feel immensely proud when I receive a thank you card.
That is exactly what I’m saying.
Not one penny of my income comes from referrals.
No lettings income, no back handers, nothing.
If you find that hard to believe then you have a distorted view on reality thinking that the same mortgage advisor, conveyancer etc is best for everyone.
I might be missing out on an income stream but I can safely say that I never take money over what is best for my client. Not many can say that
Adding my own two penn’orth to the comment above…
The FS referral income my branch earns pays for the tea and coffee – which our customers are welcome to sample whenever they drop in to our premises by the way – and not much more. I ‘borrow’ the sugar from Maccy D’s (note to self – speak to our FA for an increase on the referral fee perhaps.)
I buy the biscwits out of my ‘listing bonus’ by the way – which I pay myself the princely sum of chuff-all.
We get the same chuff-all for solicitor recommendations. We offer EPCs ourselves – but I advise my potential clients that there are cheaper alternatives available if they source their own.
Surveys – receive squat. Certificates – again – nil…nada…nowt.
You state
“It is a business after all…”
Absolutely. We get paid to market and achieve a successful sale – and thus the door to our branch stays open.
“…and in the clients best interest for you to recommend people you know, trust and have dealt with in the past.”
Yes and no. It is – as long as that person/company will work in my clients’ best interests, and are the most suitable to the client’s needs – then they will get my unequivocal recommendation.
If that ‘choice’ is weighted by a payment – then I’m out.
Peebee I’ve always liked you. You have just restored my faith in at least one other company out there working for the client and not to line their own pockets.
Surprising no one spotted the comparison of one month’s income with one year’s costs.
And costs are probably higher: commissions and advertising probably make up the bulk.
A little research would solve your numbers problem.
OK, so the Purplebricks numbers are (2015 in brackets):
£12.9m (£3.5m) on ‘sales and marketing’ to generate £10.6m (£2m) of gross profit.
So making a loss on every transaction. And that’s before the ‘Administrative and establishment’ expenses of £9.6m (£4.0m), which helped to push their ‘Loss before tax’ to £11.9m (£5.4m).
It’s fascinating that there’s been no improvement in margins now that Purplebricks have more volume.
IF they turn down the sales and marketing spend, it looks to me that there’ll be a corresponding loss in income.
But Michael Bruce and Mr. Woodford are no fools. My prediction: they’ll raise fees or reduce the commission to Local Property Experts.
Boomer95 – £20k??
They say the going rate is up to £100k…
Your figures don’t compute, by the way. I think you’ve overlooked that the quoted instructions numbers are MONTHLY – your salaries YEARLY.
And the fact the LPE’s are self employed.
That is a debateable issue. If they are trading as sole traders or independent limited companies, many are not registered with an approved redress scheme, the ICO or comply with other legal niceties that all agents in the UK are required to and, are thus potentially liable to investigation by Trading Standards amongst other bodies including HMRC over VAT issues.
However, if they are only permitted to carry out work for PB, then the law suggests that, despite PB saying they are self-employed, they may be well be ‘EM-ployed’ with all of the issues surrounding employment law etc. that a number of other similar business models are currently facing (Hermes, Uber etc).
Either way, PBs’ business model, claims and figures require much deeper scrutiny by investors, the city, the FCA, HMRC, The ICO and trading standards ( if that is not already happening). Watch this space.
Hi Chris. Please have a look at the comment I posted below in reply to WestLondonAgent97. Would you like to join forces to start the working group?
TheHybridAgent, I do not wish to sound patronising, but do you really believe that all the good agents are going to PB??
An “experienced agent” is not necessarily a good one. they are just someone who has been in the business a long time. when i need to recruit, my inbox get full up of CV’s from “highly experienced” agents who more often that not have spent their career jumping from puddle to puddle. The Senior level management people you talk about are the over paid, under effective people that have been trimmed off their previous company because they were not cost effective.
PB are dangling some pretty big carrots for all the puddle jumpers out there and are hoovering up the trash.
Good agents, really good agents, are successful in what they are doing and subsequently earn well in an environment they are happy in. – PB wont be attracting them.
Of course I believe good experienced agents are leaving the high street to go to hybrid agents yes.
Why wouldn’t they…
Every high street agent in the country is coming up against competition they have never had to deal with in the past. It’s apparent the hybrids are winning this battle.
Wether we like it or not the industry has changed. Even quicker than originally anticipated by many.
Hopefully your property descriptions will be proof-read before hitting the airwaves. I think many vendors might expect at least a modicum of grammar.
I do admire, though, your unbridled enthusiasm for the hybrid model. It reminds me of the happy-clappy evangelists that expect you to believe without the sound evidence to back it up.
I disagree, the experienced agents know that they are doing well and happy to stay put. Its all the failures that are joining PB thinking it is easy money. AS with all self employed basis …. only the few survive, the rest are used and gobbled up and spat out when they fail to reach target that’s they have no hope of ever achieving.
The Hybrid Agent – I’m not sure why you think your offer is so different to others that experienced agents have encountered in the past – low service, low fee models have come and gone throughout my career. There is a place for the likes of PB but you are only kidding yourselves if you think you will become the ‘everyman’ style of agency and put the high street out of business.
Consumers habits have changed and evolved with technology. A whole new generation of savvy tech consumers that don’t want to use the same method of selling or buying properties their parents or grandparents did. Hybrids didn’t change these habits. Technology did! Hybrids have taken advantage of the changes bringing a more convinient way of selling and buying properties to the industry.
Hi Agent Orange. Please have a look at the comment I posted below in reply to WestLondonAgent97. Would you like to join forces to start the working group?
This is all about instructions, how about sales? ‘Hybrid’ models are only cost effective for the client if you actually sell their homes and when you have a team of LPE out there who are commission paid on instruction and referrals, I can’t imagine that getting the client moved is their No.1 priority. The thing with the High Street no sale no fee model is that the interests of the agent and the client are in alignment. We now have Solicitors that are charging clients more when they are using ‘hybrid’ agents because they are having to do the work of the agent because no one sat in head office miles away care less about Mr and Mrs Jones – the LPE has already received their commission so they have no incentive.
Incidentally, the High Street agents have been using the portals and on-line media since way before the ‘hybrid’ model was even a twinkle in someones eye – so I tell you what, we’ll turn off our portals and online offer, if you will, let’s see how truly ‘hybrid’ you are and how you fare against the High Street then?? Let’s face it, the High Street agents have been ‘hybrid’ for years, let’s call you what you are, on-line agents with a team of sales reps – so why is that not what you call yourselves…? Oh yeah the public don’t like that idea do they – they look for some personal, face to face connection….
I don’t think many High Street agents are actually frightened of the ‘Hybrid’ model, we’re just wondering when the public will realise that they have actually been ripped off – £798 + VAT for something your local agent would do for free is not exactly a good deal.
Brilliant Kate,
Correct me if I’m wrong.
Most high street agents send a lister to the valuation. Majority of listers are paid a listing bonus correct?
We would all fare exactly the same… We both have the same database of buyers from the same sources.
The lister is the only face to face interaction the vendor is likely to receive through the process with a high street agent. Negotiators very rarely meet the vendor, very rarely see the property they’re selling and unless accompany viewings very rarely meet buyers. Very personal!
Do high street agents sell for free? Slightly lost with your comparison from £798 to no fee with the high street.